did ASIC ruin bitcoin ?

[WEB slicer]

i think so.

[1715112013]

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[1715112013]

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[WEB slicer]

when you spend up the ass for the equipment it takes months to deliver and when you have the equipment in hand the difficulty is so high you risk losing money cause you cant make ROI i think that makes bitcoin look like a joke and a huge gamble thus making bitcoin less attractive and could lead to panic selling and collapse.

[millsdmb]

i think so.

Do you believe they were not inevitable?

[SlyFoxy12]

I'd say little yes, it's not because ASIC is a problem it's the fact that previously we were all mining coin with readily available hardware so it felt equal opportunity but now it's difficult to get hold of good hardware and at the same time a lot of shifty people are trying to dupe people with fake offers to buy miners or even the people selling miners genuinely are quite shifty like BFL, unless it goes back to how it was I feel the system will lose a lot of hobbyists because it comes down to how do you compete against such people?

[millsdmb]

I'd say little yes, it's not because ASIC is a problem it's the fact that previously we were all mining coin with readily available hardware so it felt equal opportunity but now it's difficult to get hold of good hardware and at the same time a lot of shifty people are trying to dupe people with fake offers to buy miners or even the people selling miners genuinely are quite shifty like BFL, unless it goes back to how it was I feel the system will lose a lot of hobbyists because it comes down to how do you compete against such people?

a block erupter hashes at a respectable rate when you compare to GPU, and cost much less. Now we all know that they wont hit ROI -- did anyone here running a GPU cluster hit roi?

When has anybody actually made bank? Other than ATI, and now ASIC vendors and their resellers.  It sounds like people upset they cant play, like USB asics aren't on these very forums for BTC.38

[WEB slicer]

big money like BFL ASICminer and china mass producing equipment and mining with customers equipment prior to shipping doesnt help either.

[millsdmb]

big money like BFL ASICminer and china mass producing equipment and mining with customers equipment prior to shipping doesnt help either.

BFL has to be the company that has shipped the least yet people seem to associate most with the difficulty increase. Why is this? As for ASICMiner, they're listed in the hashrate distro chart and "Stock" (as in securities) in the company was available on these boards for purchase with dividends.

[WEB slicer]

they have that equipment and have been mining with it for months. they act stupid but they arent. they are con artists. they know what they are doing.

[Chalkbot]

I just tested my bitcoin, and they seem to be working as well as ever. I guess ASIC had no effect on them.

[millsdmb]

they have that equipment and have been mining with it for months.

Yes, ASICMiner also sold stock shares paying dividends on that hashing.

Or were you speaking of BFL...

[WEB slicer]

BFL is the devil.

[millsdmb]

BFL is the devil.

This is undisputed.

[JoelKatz]

when you spend up the ass for the equipment it takes months to deliver and when you have the equipment in hand the difficulty is so high you risk losing money cause you cant make ROI i think that makes bitcoin look like a joke and a huge gamble thus making bitcoin less attractive and could lead to panic selling and collapse.

Bitcoin != mining

[DeathAndTaxes]

when you spend up the ass for the equipment it takes months to deliver and when you have the equipment in hand the difficulty is so high you risk losing money cause you cant make ROI i think that makes bitcoin look like a joke and a huge gamble thus making bitcoin less attractive and could lead to panic selling and collapse.

Then don't mine.  Seems a pretty simple solution.  If you believe the risk of ordering, combined with potential delays, limited upside, and rising difficulty make it unattractive to invest in new mining hardware .... THEN DON'T.

"Bitcoin" (the network) needs someone to provide computing power.  It doesn't need everyone to do so, it doesn't need any particular individual to do so.  Eventually the mania will die down and Bitcoin mining will return to a high capital, low return operation just like ANY OTHER commodity production.

[millsdmb]

Sounds to me like OP's complaint is more like, "Bitcoin ASICs (and the companies who created them) ruined my (and other's) ability to earn money mining Bitcoins".

This: http://blockchain.info/charts/miners-operating-profit-margin

There is correlation between ASICS and the margin decline, however this does not imply causation.

[millsdmb]

when you spend up the ass for the equipment it takes months to deliver and when you have the equipment in hand the difficulty is so high you risk losing money cause you cant make ROI i think that makes bitcoin look like a joke and a huge gamble thus making bitcoin less attractive and could lead to panic selling and collapse.

Then don't mine.  Seems a pretty simple solution.  If you believe the risk of ordering, combined with potential delays, limited upside, and rising difficulty make it unattractive to invest in new mining hardware .... THEN DON'T.

"Bitcoin" (the network) needs someone to provide computing power.  It doesn't need everyone to do so, it doesn't need any particular individual to do so.  Eventually the mania will die down and Bitcoin mining will return to a high capital, low return operation just like ANY OTHER commodity production.

One thing I do think about is if ASICS will lead to the slow erosion of the decentralized nature of bitcoin. As rewards half, solo miners might step out. Leaving pools, which then could consolidate (or go bankrupt)

[WEB slicer]

Then don't mine.  

EXACTLY,  this leads to FAIL    

[DeathAndTaxes]

One thing I do think about is if ASICS will lead to the slow erosion of the decentralized nature of bitcoin. As rewards half, solo miners might step out. Leaving pools, which then could consolidate (or go bankrupt)

The reward halving has nothing to do with ASICs.  Prior to ASICs the overwhelming majority of GPU miners operated in a pool.  I don't see anything that makes ASIC miners more likely to use pools.  Most will but most always have.

[DeathAndTaxes]

Then don't mine. 

this leads to FAIL   

No it doesn't.  I didn't say nobody mine.  Someone will always be mining. It might not be you, and Bitcoin won't fail just because YOU are no longer mining. 

[WEB slicer]

why the fuck would anybody spend money on ASIC equipment pay electric and commit time if you cant make money?

if its not profitable to mine people wont mine and bitcoin will fail. at least people had a reason to spend money on GPU ASIC worthless if its not profitable.