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Author Topic: Bitcoin traders, why don't you just trade forex?  (Read 17238 times)
AyeYo
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July 09, 2011, 01:53:57 PM
 #1

I see there are a lot of first time traders trading Bitcoin via the hack exchanges of MtGox and Tradehill.  It makes me wonder, why don't you guys just trade real forex?  You can open micro accounts with as little as $25.  You get security far better than these shady exchanges.  You get real customer service with a real business that won't disappear and leave you only an email address to cry to.  You get real trading platforms with reliable data, not some ghetto hack stuff.  You get plenty of liquidity, which allows of smooth trading.  And, best of all, you don't have to worry whether it's legal or not!  Trading is hard enough as it is, why anyone would want all these additional factors working against them is beyond me.

So, to all the bitcoin traders out there... what are your reasons for trading these shady, unsafe bitcoin markets over regular FX?

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YoYa
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July 09, 2011, 02:07:54 PM
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I guess my perception is that I hold Forex with a large degree of caution. I'm guessing that were I trading in forex I would likely be cleaned out by now.....at least this way I got lots of trades for little cost and get to use this market as a means to learn before tackling other markets.

Also, it means being involved in the exciting project that is Bitcoin along with options to spend and partake in a new and developing economy online. Also, the term geek cash would apply as I'm a technologist by nature and any chance to experience new realities presented by technological advances is something that I love with a passion.

Also.....it's cyberpunk as hell and that's fucking awesome in my book!
Grant
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July 09, 2011, 02:16:21 PM
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So, to all the bitcoin traders out there... what are your reasons for trading these shady, unsafe bitcoin markets over regular FX?

With bitcoin you get volatility to make daytrading attractive and no shady central bank rigging the prices. Forex trading is simply a game of chance, reading the brain of central banks (and the volatility is crap).

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July 09, 2011, 02:28:45 PM
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what are your reasons for trading these shady, unsafe bitcoin markets over regular FX?

Because at the end of the day, I want to be holding bitcoin, not Zimbabwe dollars.

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AyeYo
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July 09, 2011, 02:29:40 PM
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So, to all the bitcoin traders out there... what are your reasons for trading these shady, unsafe bitcoin markets over regular FX?

With bitcoin you get volatility to make daytrading attractive and no shady central bank rigging the prices. Forex trading is simply a game of chance, reading the brain of central banks (and the volatility is crap).


There's plenty of volatility in FX, but it's tradeable volatility.  Bitcoin has blow out your account in one trade volitility; that's why it blows my mind that people feel like it's a good place to learn.  It's not a true trading market; that amount of volitility makes it a casino.  It's probably the worst place you could possibly learn.

Also, lol at central banks rigging prices.  It's a multi-trillion dollar market, they have to play it just like everyone else and they have the disadvantage of being big and slow.  You'd rather take your chances with a market so small that one guy with a moderate sized bank account can control it?

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MKW2012
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July 09, 2011, 02:37:17 PM
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I trade both along with stocks and options.
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July 09, 2011, 02:46:09 PM
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i don't do trading in traditional forex or bitcoin but my impression would be if you are trading in traditional forex you would be competing with many many big players with a lot more information/advantages than you would likely have.

the under-development of bitcoin and the perception of lack of sophistication in general of most of the traders would perhaps be attractive to would be traders as they may reckon themselves to be better traders than the majority and thus able to trade successfully.



Shuffle
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July 09, 2011, 04:30:55 PM
 #8

sorry to inform you but the gains far outdo the risks for a smart trader,  with thousands of stupid traders it makes it insanely easy to predict the price within a few hours to 2 days(the weekend drop).
AyeYo
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July 09, 2011, 06:27:23 PM
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sorry to inform you but the gains far outdo the risks for a smart trader,  with thousands of stupid traders it makes it insanely easy to predict the price within a few hours to 2 days(the weekend drop).


I've noticed this myself and it's been very tempting, but I just can't trust these exchanges.  Any amount of money worth making isn't an amount I want to deposit with some random guy in Japan that gives me nothing but an email address for contact info.

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July 09, 2011, 06:59:29 PM
 #10

well if you cant risk couple grand like everybody does - then dont start really, you cant move much more than that out in a day anyway.

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July 09, 2011, 08:03:18 PM
 #11

This has been a nice little online course in trading for me, and I was willing to put up a relatively small number of dollars and earn a very small number of dollars in return. Also as others have pointed out, it's filled with inexperienced traders like myself who don't have experience in the market so I don't feel like I'm in shark infested waters trading back and forth on the exchange. I also don't like the rigged system controlled by bankers with inside information, it's much more of a fair ballgame in that sense for newbies like myself.

If you're looking to sign up for an exchange try Bitcoin7 or Tradehill, referral codes are listed below. Sign up for Tradehill and get 10% off of every trade you ever make.

https://www.bitcoin7.com/?ref=6383

http://www.tradehill.com/?r=TH-R15532
David M
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July 09, 2011, 09:32:59 PM
 #12

You can open micro accounts with as little as $25.

Not in Australia.

If you want to trade the SFE (Sydney Futures Exchange), you will need a minimum of $7000 deposit and then they sting you $50 each way.

Bitcoin has the potential to be THE commodity of choice for learner traders.

Security is overrated when exchanges can change margin requirements at will.  i.e Silver at CME
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July 09, 2011, 11:11:29 PM
 #13


Also.....it's cyberpunk as hell and that's fucking awesome in my book!

We need to trademark this:

"Bitcoins... it's cyberpunk as hell!"

Smiley
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July 10, 2011, 12:51:45 PM
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There's plenty of volatility in FX, but it's tradeable volatility.  Bitcoin has blow out your account in one trade volitility; that's why it blows my mind that people feel like it's a good place to learn.  It's not a true trading market; that amount of volitility makes it a casino.  It's probably the worst place you could possibly learn.


Coming from a position having of closed my account with Interactive Brokers (who are great, if you're looking for a proper trading account) back in March... Bitcoin is a HELL of a lot easier to learn on. Sure, the volatility is insane, but you're not trading against people with unspeakably more resources than you, or risking nearly as much. Minimum trade was $25k, and typically you wanted to be trading $100k at a time to keep commission low. That's all done on margin, of course, so you're actually trading 50 times as much money as you have as a deposit.

Yes, you can get Forex mini accounts, they're all with market makers where the price you trade is determined by the person holding your money. Even with the few really reputable companies, that's just not a good situation to be in.

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enquirer
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July 10, 2011, 12:59:36 PM
 #15

OP, why don't you just add bitcoin to your operation?
haydent
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July 10, 2011, 01:10:50 PM
 #16

forex has margin calls, bitcoin does not

most 'cheap' forex markets and are unregulated and are just simulated games, your not actually trading on the open market.

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AyeYo
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July 10, 2011, 07:59:40 PM
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^Bitcoin doesn't have margin calls because you aren't trading on margin.  Roll Eyes



Yes, you can get Forex mini accounts, they're all with market makers where the price you trade is determined by the person holding your money. Even with the few really reputable companies, that's just not a good situation to be in.


That's the EXACT same position you're in with Bitcoin trading, which was the point I was making.  At least with a FX bucket shop you've got the law and regulatory agencies on your side, not to mention the fact that you're trading with a real business and not some dude with a server in his mom's garage.

Enjoying the dose of reality or getting a laugh out of my posts? Feel free to toss me a penny or two, everyone else seems to be doing it! 1Kn8NqvbCC83zpvBsKMtu4sjso5PjrQEu1
rnicoll
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July 10, 2011, 08:20:01 PM
 #18

^Bitcoin doesn't have margin calls because you aren't trading on margin.  Roll Eyes



Yes, you can get Forex mini accounts, they're all with market makers where the price you trade is determined by the person holding your money. Even with the few really reputable companies, that's just not a good situation to be in.


That's the EXACT same position you're in with Bitcoin trading, which was the point I was making.  At least with a FX bucket shop you've got the law and regulatory agencies on your side, not to mention the fact that you're trading with a real business and not some dude with a server in his mom's garage.

While I'm nervous about the fact that trading on Mt Gox means giving them my USD/BTC, I thought trades were direct against other traders, and they charged commission, rather than trades being with Mt Gox themselves?

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AyeYo
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July 10, 2011, 08:45:56 PM
 #19

^Bitcoin doesn't have margin calls because you aren't trading on margin.  Roll Eyes



Yes, you can get Forex mini accounts, they're all with market makers where the price you trade is determined by the person holding your money. Even with the few really reputable companies, that's just not a good situation to be in.


That's the EXACT same position you're in with Bitcoin trading, which was the point I was making.  At least with a FX bucket shop you've got the law and regulatory agencies on your side, not to mention the fact that you're trading with a real business and not some dude with a server in his mom's garage.

While I'm nervous about the fact that trading on Mt Gox means giving them my USD/BTC, I thought trades were direct against other traders, and they charged commission, rather than trades being with Mt Gox themselves?



Who said MtGox doesn't trade against people?  There's no regulation, remember?  No laws against conflict of interest, nothing like that.  Your data provider, broker, exchange, and opposing trader are ALL the same person (like literally one or two guys, not just a business entity) in Bitcoin land.  But yet people think regular FX is too rigged and risky?   Cheesy

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July 10, 2011, 10:31:21 PM
 #20

There are methods to build trust between parties.

Because Mt Gox is only made of a few, we can know who they are relatively easily. They are not anonymous.

Yes they could still screw us quite easily, but you can avoid disaster if you follow a few rules -
  • Don't put all you eggs in one basket (Don't trade only BTC, use several exchanges ?)
  • Building trust progressively is your best bet

Which brings me to the point of the OP, people quite possibly are trading both, and there are many reasons why one would trade BTC.
I don't see at all why its so mind-blowing, you don't necessarily have to invest your life savings?

Finally, you can't have expectations of entrepreneurs in a new market to have bureaucratic certifications and be following non-existent regulations.

How do you propose an exchange should be set up for the Bitcoin market?

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