Glad chips haven't shipped...

[jermwerty]

Why should anyone bother with Avalon or BFL when you can get other chips that are faster, more efficient and delivered on time with companies that are actually polite, responsive and supportive when you develop DIY boards? Note that many are also offering "protection" against the vagaries of the difficulty spikes...

Oh how history is soon forgotten...

I think the key here isn't promises made beforehand, but delivery as promised.  We have yet to see if KnC, BitFury, etc will actually deliver on anything thus far promised!  Lets see how that "protection" works if/when they slip dates...  Remember BFL was heralded as the king of ASICs this time a year ago, and they were selling with PayPal so you'll get your money back if they don't deliver as promised in "two weeks"(tm)!

[DyslexicZombei]

Personally, I'm kinda glad chips haven't been shipped yet due to the increase in difficulty.  Sucks that people have put money into preorders but that was your decision.  Yifu is a clever bastard but it really should have been expected.

There, I said it.

Now that's not very nice even if you may be right. No one likes the guy that says: "I told you so."

Didn't mama ever teach you: "If you don't have something nice to say..." Karma tends to bite us in the rear when we gloat.

As a bystander to this entire trainwreck I can't believe that there still isn't any closure; like we're still waiting for the final acts.

You think this wait was bad? I started reading The Wheel of Time, literally the most epic fantasy series ever, by Robert Jordan in '90. He died & fans thought it was over, as unfinished. A brilliant author picked up the work with Jordan's wife's approval & finished the series 23 years later! Now we didn't have BTC involved but we still had a lot of time/$ invested in the series.

Damn, I forgot about that book. Going to try get a copy this afternoon, thanks for the nostalgic reminder!

You bet! Brandon Sanderson did a bang up job finishing off the series with those last books. He's a talented writer with a good grasp of flow. I was really pleased on how well that 23 year fantasy epic finally ended.

[Bicknellski]

Why should anyone bother with Avalon or BFL when you can get other chips that are faster, more efficient and delivered on time with companies that are actually polite, responsive and supportive when you develop DIY boards? Note that many are also offering "protection" against the vagaries of the difficulty spikes...

Oh how history is soon forgotten...

I think the key here isn't promises made beforehand, but delivery as promised.  We have yet to see if KnC, BitFury, etc will actually deliver on anything thus far promised!  Lets see how that "protection" works if/when they slip dates...  Remember BFL was heralded as the king of ASICs this time a year ago, and they were selling with PayPal so you'll get your money back if they don't deliver as promised in "two weeks"(tm)!

BITFURY delivered. On time.

And... I haven't forgotten what Avalon and BFL promised. Nor will I forget how they delivered. Infact we are working with BitFury chips right now... it took only 3 days to get them delivered vs. 3 weeks late on developer chips for Avalon and still not a sign or email etc about our huge lot of Avalon chips. Go figure eh? Boycott Avalon simple solution.

[Bitcoinorama]

Why should anyone bother with Avalon or BFL when you can get other chips that are faster, more efficient and delivered on time with companies that are actually polite, responsive and supportive when you develop DIY boards? Note that many are also offering "protection" against the vagaries of the difficulty spikes...

Oh how history is soon forgotten...

I think the key here isn't promises made beforehand, but delivery as promised.  We have yet to see if KnC, BitFury, etc will actually deliver on anything thus far promised!  Lets see how that "protection" works if/when they slip dates...  Remember BFL was heralded as the king of ASICs this time a year ago, and they were selling with PayPal so you'll get your money back if they don't deliver as promised in "two weeks"(tm)!

The protection works as long as it's within the valid timeframe of the third party providing it's stipulated terms, or that of the country's laws surrounding the payment method chosen. It has nothing to do with the vendor, it's out of their hands. History's never been forgotten, just consumers have blindly lept into purchases without informing themselves of options they have if terms of sale aren't met and what period of time they have available to do something about it. It's not the manufacturer or the 'protection' available's fault, just the dumbass throwing their money at stuff without reading.

[Bicknellski]

Why should anyone bother with Avalon or BFL when you can get other chips that are faster, more efficient and delivered on time with companies that are actually polite, responsive and supportive when you develop DIY boards? Note that many are also offering "protection" against the vagaries of the difficulty spikes...

Oh how history is soon forgotten...

I think the key here isn't promises made beforehand, but delivery as promised.  We have yet to see if KnC, BitFury, etc will actually deliver on anything thus far promised!  Lets see how that "protection" works if/when they slip dates...  Remember BFL was heralded as the king of ASICs this time a year ago, and they were selling with PayPal so you'll get your money back if they don't deliver as promised in "two weeks"(tm)!

The protection works as long as it's within the valid timeframe of the third party providing it's stipulated terms, or that of the country's laws surrounding the payment method chosen. It has nothing to do with the vendor, it's out of their hands. History's never been forgotten, just consumers have blindly lept into purchases without informing themselves of options they have if terms of sale aren't met and what period of time they have available to do something about it. It's not the manufacturer or the 'protection' available's fault, just the dumbass throwing their money at stuff without reading.

Not so worried about PROTECTION as getting the fucking chips to be honest but at least people are attempting to do the right thing. Our COOP on the other hand want to do it the right way as possible. We inform everyone of our decision to not fabricate. We refund everyone in BTC and we do it as fast as we can. I could really care less at this point what people promise but rather what they actually deliver or in terms of cock ups what they do IMMEDIATELY to rectify that situation. To be honest there are only two players at this point. BitFury delivered chips. Asicminer delivered miners. Avalon shot themselves and BFL is just a joke fullstop everyone else pretty much has little or no reputation of value minus say Burnin, Bkkcoins, Alten and a few other DIY fabricators who have invested more time and effort that it seems most of these other "companies". Sad indeed.

Till the businesses mature and offer solutions to issues rather than excuses no one will really be trusting of anyone. I would rather do with business with people who make mistakes but bend over backwards to fix that mistake and make good on promises as best they can with honesty and integrity. Until you earn that no warranty or protection plan means anything.

[Bitcoinorama]

Why should anyone bother with Avalon or BFL when you can get other chips that are faster, more efficient and delivered on time with companies that are actually polite, responsive and supportive when you develop DIY boards? Note that many are also offering "protection" against the vagaries of the difficulty spikes...

Oh how history is soon forgotten...

I think the key here isn't promises made beforehand, but delivery as promised.  We have yet to see if KnC, BitFury, etc will actually deliver on anything thus far promised!  Lets see how that "protection" works if/when they slip dates...  Remember BFL was heralded as the king of ASICs this time a year ago, and they were selling with PayPal so you'll get your money back if they don't deliver as promised in "two weeks"(tm)!

The protection works as long as it's within the valid timeframe of the third party providing it's stipulated terms, or that of the country's laws surrounding the payment method chosen. It has nothing to do with the vendor, it's out of their hands. History's never been forgotten, just consumers have blindly lept into purchases without informing themselves of options they have if terms of sale aren't met and what period of time they have available to do something about it. It's not the manufacturer or the 'protection' available's fault, just the dumbass throwing their money at stuff without reading.

Not so worried about PROTECTION as getting the fucking chips to be honest.

Of course, and I don't want to labour on the same point, but it's exhausting since jermwerty is being critical of something that is irrelevant and there has been so much info recently provided on. I don't car how people choose to pay or what for, just I wish they would clue themselves up on how they aim to recover loss if it occurs.

That said I do not want to see Yifu end up in trouble or people loose thousands of dollars on chips being delivered late, or not at all. I just wish he'd pull his finger out and be honest and get it together as there is a finite window available, and we only know what we've been told is on the horizon. There's more activity occurring we don't know about yet that will effect hashrate soon...

[Bicknellski]

BTC or DOLLARS doesn't matter.

What matters are the people who take your money and the reputation they build when things go wrong.

You can actually do business where you are responsible.