Do you hate the State?

[marcus_of_augustus]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACoymMYx8E0&feature=related

Murray Rothbard.

just leave this here.

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[indio007]

Hmmm... Do I hate the legal fiction body politic? No.


I hate the certain people in clown suits that use it to circumvent ....

"We find these truths self-evident, that all men where created equal"

www.injusticeeverywhere.com
Injustice Everywhere
The National Police Misconduct Statistics and Reporting Project


ARE COPS CONSTITUTIONAL?
http://www.constitution.org/lrev/roots/cops.htm

Roger Roots JD PHD
Seton Hall Constitutional L.J. 2001, 685

[billyjoeallen]

Yes. I hate the State. It is the single most powerful and pervasive tool of evil in existence.

[Littleshop]

Yes. I hate the State. It is the single most powerful and pervasive tool of evil in existence.

I am sure that you have not yet seen:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Star_Wars_Holiday_Special

[kiba]

hmm..

Well, I tend to be angered by their inefficiency and general stupidity.

The local utility company for the example don't act like good little capitalists. Instead they have some bureaucratic system just because they're monopolists. They don't care about wanting my money because I need them more than they need me.

Enough said. I registered with their power service only to learn that they need me to come to their local office that I lived here.

I am like "WTF? Why do you care about proof that I live here? All you need to know is that if I paid the power bill..or not."

[billyjoeallen]

Yes. I hate the State. It is the single most powerful and pervasive tool of evil in existence.

I am sure that you have not yet seen:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Star_Wars_Holiday_Special

Whether you are referring to the Galactic Empire or the fact that the horrible special aired on PBS, you are proving my point.

[giantdragon]

Most governments in the world are repressive and evil!

[evoorhees]

"The state" is a bit too vague for me. I'll say simply that I hate democracy and all other forms of collectivism.

[Confucius]

"The state" is a bit too vague for me. I'll say simply that I hate democracy and all other forms of collectivism.

:O

What do you like?

[Jaime Frontero]

do i hate the state?

that would be all of us.  including myself.

the entity we've created that builds our roads, sees to the cleanliness of our water and the purity of our medicines?  that prevents starvation and poverty in our elders?  that - in most places - attends to our medical needs as a human right?

no.  i don't hate that.

or do you mean the state which sponsors unjust wars?  that lies to us and holds secrets, treating us as though we were children?  that steals our health and retirement, or forces us across unsafe bridges to pay for tax cuts to the wealthy?

no.  i don't hate that either - it makes me want to work harder to get what we have worked for.

i see nothing wrong with the basic idea of a state.  some things are too big for individuals; and privatization of those larger needs is a fallacy:  corporations are about rape - nothing else.  i would just as soon entrust my future and my health to the child molester down the street, as to the average large corporation.

but i'm quite sure YMMV.

[NghtRppr]

do i hate the state?

that would be all of us.  including myself.

Speak for yourself. I didn't sign anything. I'm not anymore in a relationship with the rest of the world than a rape victim is in a relationship with their rapist.

attends to our medical needs as a human right?

Here's another thing I hate. This general sense of entitlement. You're not entitled to anything but to be left alone. Food, shelter, clothing, medical care, etc are not rights. The world does not owe you a living.

[Jaime Frontero]

Speak for yourself. I didn't sign anything. I'm not more in a relationship with the rest of the world than a rape victim is in a relationship with their rapist.

we are all a part of the culture we are a part of.  like it or not.

Here's another thing I hate. This general sense of entitlement. You're not entitled to anything but to be left alone. Food, shelter, clothing, medical care, etc are not rights. The world does not owe you a living.

i never said it did.  and yet every reasonably civilized country on earth sees to the medical needs of its population.  it's cost-effective.  people live longer and healthier.  they produce more, and revolt less.  these things make the world a better place - at least as i see it.

i never minded paying my share if i get my share.

the world doesn't owe me - or anybody - a living.  but i have no problem with helping out my brothers and sisters - the better they do the better i do.

[NghtRppr]

we are all a part of the culture we are a part of.  like it or not.

Culture does not equal the state.

the world doesn't owe me - or anybody - a living.  but i have no problem with helping out my brothers and sisters - the better they do the better i do.

Good, then you pay for it.

[Jaime Frontero]

Culture does not equal the state.

we disagree.  < shrug >  so it goes.

Good, then you pay for it.

like i said; i don't mind, as long as i get my share.

[hugolp]

like i said; i don't mind, as long as i get my share.

I promise you a bigger share of your own money.  Vote for me!

the entity we've created that builds our roads, sees to the cleanliness of our water and the purity of our medicines?  that prevents starvation and poverty in our elders?  that - in most places - attends to our medical needs as a human right?

And the rainbows!! Dont forget the rainbows, without the state there would not be rainbows.

Its not the people working that produces all that above... No, no way. Its The State! All hail The State!

[BBanzai]

We built our own roads before Rome.  We took care of our own elderly.  And our children, our neighbors.  We did all of that without big government, because everyone took care of people immediately around them.  Politicians promise to take care of all these for us AND demand that we murder and steal from people that are not our immediate family, neighbors, nationality.  Don't study the last 10 or 20 years of history, study the last 5000.  And then tell me again how good for the people you think governments are.

[Jaime Frontero]

We built our own roads before Rome.  We took care of our own elderly.  And our children, our neighbors.  We did all of that without big government, because everyone took care of people immediately around them.  Politicians promise to take care of all these for us AND demand that we murder and steal from people that are not our immediate family, neighbors, nationality.  Don't study the last 10 or 20 years of history, study the last 5000.  And then tell me again how good for the people you think governments are.

we never built our own roads.  they have always been a construct of either military necessity or interstate/intercity trading constructed by states/citystates/etc. with the vision to see the advantages of them.  any road worth mentioning has always been built with either taxes or slavery (actual slavery - not some ridiculously-defined 'cultural/political/ideological slavery').

yeah.  sure we took care of our own elderly.  there's only one problem with continuing on that course:  global warming has seen to it that we're running out of ice floes.

snark aside, you have no idea, obviously, how it has gone for the elderly (you know:  those folks who built what we consume?) in the past 5,000 years of world history.  or in the past 80 in the US...

[BBanzai]

Why is there supposed to be something wrong with dying when you get old?  Everything else on the planet does it.  Just because YOU have never built your own road does not mean that WE don't.  Have you ever examined a town map (not a city) and seen how rambling the roads were?  They were formed by use, not by slavery, they were improved if they were useful to many people in the area by the people that found that path useful.  Not by slaves.  If I could make a recommendation that I am entirely certain you will ignore, take a gander at neural networks.  The way every damn one of us comes up with a sense of self and remarkably useful models of the world springs forth from a bottom-up approach, not a command and control model.

[BBanzai]

Incidentally, I build what others consume.  Its a continuing source of personal pride for me to become more effective at that as time brings me steadily towards my inevitable demise and dissolution.  When I die, I hope to fertilize the ground in gratitude.

[Jaime Frontero]

Why is there supposed to be something wrong with dying when you get old?

how old are you?

you will discover that the definition of 'old' changes as you age.  no shit.  wait.  you'll see.

me, i just turned 60.  i feel the same as i felt when i was 30.  good genes though - so i can't take much credit.

but you go ahead and die "when you get old".  (or even before - are you a Who fan?)  i'm sure you won't mind at all, and will consider it to be an insignificant planetary occurrence.  or perhaps an honor for the greater good?

as for roads...  those little pathways in towns aren't roads; those are footpaths.  and the difference is clear.  one builds civilizations.  the other makes you feel safe in the night.

[imperi]

Why is there supposed to be something wrong with dying when you get old?

how old are you?

you will discover that the definition of 'old' changes as you age.  no shit.  wait.  you'll see.

me, i just turned 60.  i feel the same as i felt when i was 30.  good genes though - so i can't take much credit.

but you go ahead and die "when you get old".  (or even before - are you a Who fan?)  i'm sure you won't mind at all, and will consider it to be an insignificant planetary occurrence.  or perhaps an honor for the greater good?

as for roads...  those little pathways in towns aren't roads; those are footpaths.  and the difference is clear.  one builds civilizations.  the other makes you feel safe in the night.

Wow, I would've pegged you at 30 - 35.

[cloon]

your talking about roads and history?
stay in present!

IMO the states suck!
ur all getting fat and degenerated by disevolution! because jour gouvernment wants the control and kapitalism (power for the persons who have money and who enslave you to work for them)
your health-organisations only care for the symptons not for the reasons, what makes you even more sick!
your personal rights are throne away... there could everytime come the police and do house search or you could be called a terrorist because your neighbour is arab and you'll get arrestet for years without a judge...
The only thing your gouverment is able to do is make more debts using for War to kill the terrorists, enslave the population, and find some chemical mass destruction wapons! (It was all for reccources, money and influence not about freedom)
Oh yeah and they can talk! and you believe everything they say
obama is a marionette of the finance system
the american dream has passed
BYE LIBERTY BYE

[Jaime Frontero]

Why is there supposed to be something wrong with dying when you get old?

how old are you?

you will discover that the definition of 'old' changes as you age.  no shit.  wait.  you'll see.

me, i just turned 60.  i feel the same as i felt when i was 30.  good genes though - so i can't take much credit.

but you go ahead and die "when you get old".  (or even before - are you a Who fan?)  i'm sure you won't mind at all, and will consider it to be an insignificant planetary occurrence.  or perhaps an honor for the greater good?

as for roads...  those little pathways in towns aren't roads; those are footpaths.  and the difference is clear.  one builds civilizations.  the other makes you feel safe in the night.

Wow, I would've pegged you at 30 - 35.

yeah.  i get that a lot on the 'net.  and face to face it's usually: "oh, about 45".

alas, i have no six-pack these days - but i still got at least a two-pack. 

he's not dead y'know.  only resting...

[hugolp]

We built our own roads before Rome.  We took care of our own elderly.  And our children, our neighbors.  We did all of that without big government, because everyone took care of people immediately around them.  Politicians promise to take care of all these for us AND demand that we murder and steal from people that are not our immediate family, neighbors, nationality.  Don't study the last 10 or 20 years of history, study the last 5000.  And then tell me again how good for the people you think governments are.

we never built our own roads.  they have always been a construct of either military necessity or interstate/intercity trading constructed by states/citystates/etc. with the vision to see the advantages of them.  any road worth mentioning has always been built with either taxes or slavery (actual slavery - not some ridiculously-defined 'cultural/political/ideological slavery').

This is false. The first roads in the USA were built by cooperatives formed in the towns that wanted to build the roads. It wasnt until later that the government got in because it wanted its share of the business.

yeah.  sure we took care of our own elderly.  there's only one problem with continuing on that course:  global warming has seen to it that we're running out of ice floes.

snark aside, you have no idea, obviously, how it has gone for the elderly (you know:  those folks who built what we consume?) in the past 5,000 years of world history.  or in the past 80 in the US...

Previously, the elder could save in money that would last and did not need to be gambling in the stock market to keep their retirement funds or trust that the politicians would not collapse the social security funds before they need them. You have to thanks the government for that too.

[GideonGono]

I HATE THE STATE!


Thanks, that was a great article.

[marcus_of_augustus]

Ah, yes ... how many actually listened to youtube podcast?

The discussion appears to be getting bogged down and side-traced in a swamp of minutiae

Maybe you need a dose of Prax-girl ... to help explain the logic of human interaction, from there you can build up to necessity/absurdity of the State.

http://www.youtube.com/user/praxgirl

and actually, yes, she does take bitcoins!

http://www.youtube.com/user/praxgirl#p/a/u/1/7u4LIxByZ54

[Confucius]

Prax-girl
http://www.youtube.com/user/praxgirl

Dang, she got 1.09 BTC donations to the BTC address she advertised on YouTube just for being hot!

Bitcoins == Easiest way ever invented for babes to take monetary compliments from across the world

[marcus_of_augustus]

Prax-girl
http://www.youtube.com/user/praxgirl

Dang, she got 1.09 BTC donations to the BTC address she advertised on YouTube just for being hot!

Bitcoins == Easiest way ever invented for babes to take monetary compliments from across the world

Heh ... had to watch multiple times just to focus on the content properly.

[LokeRundt]

Sure, if a hot woman like her hates the state, that's gotta be what's up

[Trader Steve]

Let's just say I like freedom.

[niemivh]

That's like hating the club used to beat you over the head.

I suggest we hate the persons wielding the club.

[netrin]

Sorry bitcoin_bug, I thought the 12 minute reading sucked. Maybe because I only dislike the state and haven't yet engaged in expected rational panic Mr. Jefferson warned me about.

As for Praxeology, it just sounds like the first three of Buddhism's fourth aryan truths with a sprinkling of Nietzsche. appamada.

[Anonymous]

Without question. I can barely handle the starvation and holocaust it causes: the limits it puts on innovation, charity and man overall; only reducing us further in our primitive sufferings.

[billyjoeallen]

That's like hating the club used to beat you over the head.

I suggest we hate the persons wielding the club.

The club corrupts all who wield it. It's the One Ring. It must be taken to Mordor and thrown into Mt Doom.

 

[Jaime Frontero]

That's like hating the club used to beat you over the head.

I suggest we hate the persons wielding the club.

The club corrupts all who wield it. It's the One Ring. It must be taken to Mordor and thrown into Mt Doom.

 

this is profoundly true.

[marcus_of_augustus]

That's like hating the club used to beat you over the head.

I suggest we hate the persons wielding the club.

The club corrupts all who wield it. It's the One Ring. It must be taken to Mordor and thrown into Mt Doom.

 

this is profoundly true.

... ban the State?

How does that work?

Can only be by voluntary dis-association ... the State is the default primordial ooze of fear, mysticism and misery that is slipped back into when reason is abandoned wholesale.

[Jaime Frontero]

That's like hating the club used to beat you over the head.

I suggest we hate the persons wielding the club.

The club corrupts all who wield it. It's the One Ring. It must be taken to Mordor and thrown into Mt Doom.

 

this is profoundly true.

... ban the State?

How does that work?

Can only be by voluntary dis-association ... the State is the default primordial ooze of fear, mysticism and misery that is slipped back into when reason is abandoned wholesale.

read Lord of the Rings much?

[BBanzai]

I lost track.  Yes, LOR several times, including the appendices.  I can write my own name in the Angerthas Cirth.  Learned that at 8.  Just sayin'.  You have not seen how foot paths turn into roads, by use, by the statistical vote of the travellers and the folks that used them.  Not by soldiers and asphalt.  The Interstates were always for military use.

[BBanzai]

Your definition of getting old will change as you age.  I noticed that when I was 6.  No one wanted to talk to me at the time about what I had seen.  I'm....well, let's say over 40 and leave it at that.

[Jaime Frontero]

I lost track.  Yes, LOR several times, including the appendices.  I can write my own name in the Angerthas Cirth.  Learned that at 8.  Just sayin'.  You have not seen how foot paths turn into roads, by use, by the statistical vote of the travellers and the folks that used them.  Not by soldiers and asphalt.  The Interstates were always for military use.

only several? 

i was a member of the TSA in 1966.  i spoke to tolkien one christmas, on the phone (ian ballantine set up the call - long story...).

just think - CGI is really getting good enough to make the silmarillion...

[BBanzai]

Uggh, I STILL can't keep track of which elvish name was which!  I may be clever, but it only goes so far!

[marcus_of_augustus]

I lost track.  Yes, LOR several times, including the appendices.  I can write my own name in the Angerthas Cirth.  Learned that at 8.  Just sayin'.  You have not seen how foot paths turn into roads, by use, by the statistical vote of the travellers and the folks that used them.  Not by soldiers and asphalt.  The Interstates were always for military use.

only several?  

i was a member of the TSA in 1966.  i spoke to tolkien one christmas, on the phone (ian ballantine set up the call - long story...).

just think - CGI is really getting good enough to make the silmarillion...

not too mention all those available GPU's sitting at Weka Workshops .... sadly NVidia, maybe next upgrade they could be persuaded to AMD?

[Jack of Diamonds]

I can write my own name in the Angerthas Cirth.  Learned that at 8. 

i was a member of the TSA in 1966.  i spoke to tolkien one christmas, on the phone

just think - CGI is really getting good enough to make the silmarillion...

are there any 'normal' bitcoin supporters

[Jaime Frontero]

are there any 'normal' bitcoin supporters

...sez the pissed-off looking guy with the axe.

[Jack of Diamonds]

ok, you win.

(if you can say that in elf language)

[BBanzai]

If by "normal", you mean "functionally illiterate", then yes.  Boatloads of 'em.

[BBanzai]

...pêd i rûthen callon ah crist.

[Anonymous]

I dont hate them

http://policebrutality.witcoin.com/p/1858/Cop-executes-man-after-telling-him-he-doesnt-need-a-warrant

I just try to avoid people with guns.

[BBanzai]

Now there's a thought...we would have to become the new Apaches.  And Sufis.  Sounds do-able.