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Author Topic: [CLOSED-refunds process]Avalon - Chips group buy order time frame and deliveries  (Read 10832 times)
dnaleor
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August 25, 2013, 12:30:36 PM
 #41

AVALON & Yifu


Watching this video makes me angry:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LY1xgGiejIc

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tiros
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August 25, 2013, 03:44:25 PM
 #42


I feel the same

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August 25, 2013, 11:34:02 PM
 #43

Thread updated and no new chips deliveries reported.
Yifu, ooooooooooo Yifu ...........  Angry

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August 27, 2013, 03:34:53 PM
 #44

Tread updated. Let me know if anything new appears.

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August 27, 2013, 06:50:33 PM
 #45

Tread updated. Let me know if anything new appears.

I dont see any updates am i right ?

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August 27, 2013, 09:32:27 PM
 #46

I am in the process of contacting a chinese suplier at alibaba who is offering chips for 30 USD.
I also asked him about how it's possible he can deliver. If I have any info (I doubt it) I'll post it here!

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August 27, 2013, 09:32:53 PM
 #47

big time coin just received his chips:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=282452.0
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August 27, 2013, 09:44:05 PM
 #48

^Glad to see Big Time Coin receive his chips, if they're following chronological order that means Zefir's batch 3 is coming up and then raginazn's order is around the corner.

Big Time Coin's chips have a date code of 1332.  Thought it might have been 2013, work week #32.  In the unboxing thread, JimRome suggests "Assuming ISO8601 format, week 32 would translate to the week of August 5-11" which sounds much more accurate.  (rack him)

It appears the chips were sent out on Aug 21 from HKG, cleared customs on Aug 22, and could've been delivered as early as Aug 23, but they were delivered earlier today.
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August 27, 2013, 10:32:46 PM
 #49

^Glad to see Big Time Coin receive his chips, if they're following chronological order that means Zefir's batch 3 is coming up and then raginazn's order is around the corner.

[sarcasm]WOOHOO!!!!   Grin Grin Grin Grin  PARTY !!!![/sarcasm]

I'm waiting for the chips in marto74's batch1...

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August 27, 2013, 10:43:50 PM
 #50

Tread updated. Let me know if anything new appears.

I dont see any updates am i right ?

I am updating how many days passed from scheduled delivery of chips, status of shipment and adding any new group buys found with help of this community.
In that one last update only days passed has been updated.

big time coin just received his chips:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=282452.0

Thanks once again Xialla!

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August 28, 2013, 01:57:45 PM
 #51

just wandering how come terrahash is not on this list

see here  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=198489.3720

regards

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August 29, 2013, 07:39:35 AM
 #52

Is this just for group buys?
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August 29, 2013, 11:47:45 AM
 #53

Is this just for group buys?

with all due resect buddy, the title suggests just that...

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August 29, 2013, 02:17:25 PM
 #54

Is this just for group buys?

with all due resect buddy, the title suggests just that...

Thanks, and I sincerely deserved that. Was just wondering if there was anyway to make the list incorporate the other 75 percent of the total order list. Without hijacking this thread of course. At this point in time the onus is no longer on group buy folks anymore is it?
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August 29, 2013, 04:42:18 PM
 #55

Looks like group buy organizers will get their chance to get refund on delayed deliveries as per Yifu's say or chance to choose what to do.

FYI

Dear BitSyncom,

I organized one of the first group-buys for Avalon ASICs with a total of 80k chips during the second half of April. I already received the first two orders, and while they arrived later than agreed, I understand the difficulties you faced with delivery and am happy to have enabled some DIY projects to produce boards with an expected break-even potential.

With the further delays and the recent development in the mining market, we already passed the point where your chips will ever see a ROI. While the accelerated development of next-gen ASICs and the resulting increase in difficulty is every miners' risk issue, the delay is not. Decision to order the chips was based on your ToS giving a 9-10 weeks delivery time, and with the remaining orders being late for at least 8 weeks you for sure are aware that the chips lost their chance to make back their investment.

As you can imagine, all users desperately waiting for their chips are becoming more and more impatient. I personally have ~200 very sad and upset people in my group-buy and I feel very desperate and helpless not being able to do anything about it.

Yifu, it is only some months ago where you have been one of the most respected and honored person in Bitcoinland. I strongly believe that all this mess is a result of issues out of your control. Nevertheless with power comes responsibility, and now it is on you to take responsibility for the masses of folks out there who put serious amount of coins into your chips. If you really care about Bitcoin and its community, you can't just stand there and watch how disappointed users leave the scene.

As group-buy organizer and large-scale buyer I would like to suggest you several options to compensate chip-buyers for the late delivery:
a) refund: no chips, full refund
b) compensation in BTC: deliver chips, compensate XX% of the initial price
c) compensation in chips: deliver chips, add YY% more chips as compensation
d) compensation by upgrades: no chips, convert orders to next-gen chip orders

Would you be willing and capable to consider those suggestions? If so, I'd be glad to negotiate between my group-buyers and you to reach some agreement acceptable for both sides. Also, I would include other group-buy organizers to come to a generic agreement. For the sake of Bitcoin, please come back to me and let's bring this, that poisoned the community already enough, to an end.


Best Regards
zefir

I'm glad the group buyer leaders are more understanding.

a) I am very open to this, this is what I suggest.
b) I am not a fan of this, on a principle level I rather do a full refund. plus, I rather sell the chips once we have them in hand at a discount, instead of letting people wait.( which is about the same as doing a partial refund in my opinion.)
c) this will not be good, as you know the chips isn't going to get here any faster, and ordering more would run into more delays ( this is the worst option, do not offer.)
d) while in theory this option sounds the best for us right? we keep the money, tout our gen2/3/4 chips and etc etc, but reality is we want to stay away from all pre-orders in the future. as you can imagine, all the problems, rumors and just about everything is caused by the fact we took pre-orders, and we will no longer be doing this.

you are welcome to post this in your thread.

How fast those refund will be processed is another question having in mind that not many (I know for only one) refund for Avalon batch #3 miner was processed. Today also it came to Yifu's knowledge (as he says) that those Avalon batch #3 miners refunds has not been processed and he will be working hard to accelerate that process.

ok. this is pretty stupid of me, and completely my fault.

the system is designed to move cold storage to hot wallet -> then send out refunds.

but apparently the move failed and the script tried to send a bunch of refunds while the input contained no coins...

1000 coins have been moved and script resumed, I'm sure people should see refunds instantly and can vouch. and once I get back on location I can enable more coins to be moved and thus refund resumed.

again, I apologize for the long delay.

Not sure but if refunds get stuck in customsTM it's going to be a problem. Tongue

so all the refunds went out, aside from 2 orders which bugged out for whatever reason, and is looking into it now, those are 6997 and 6817.

To be honest I was surprised to see people logging in and saying they got their refund. Well, I didn't doubt that refund would be processed but also didn't expect such a speed. Looks at Yifu being so responsive is so nice to see.

Ok, now its time to decide what to do!
I would take the chips if exact shipping date (1-3 days precise) is near or few days from now, otherwise refund. You can all imagine that Yifu could answer that question if he wold take a look at his orders backlog but I don't think he will because of the noise.

Confirmed by block chain.   Refund already has one confirmation.  Phew... That is a relief..

completely my fault there. I would visit forum more to see problems, but the noise...

Ok guys you know it now! All of us should blame the noise and keep quiet. Yifu's prerequisite for conducting healthy business is that you can't complain and make noise.
One would say he could ignore nasty comments that were out of line and answer to customers that placed few orders of Avalon chips, but noise was preventing him for doing so.

One who don't want to do something will find thousand of excuses not to do it, and one who want to do something will find thousand of ways to do it.
I look at such an issue as a matter of your own will to make an effort, and once if all resorts fail you, you can always reply on email or bloody support ticket.

Right now I guess we should all be thankful Yifu decided to reply to zefir and give us chance to decide are we going to wait for chips or grab our BTC back.
So to conclude this, thank you Yifu for finally doing the right thing and ask as for our opinion.


just wandering how come terrahash is not on this list

see here  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=198489.3720

regards

He isn't on the list for a reason I don't know when he ordered chips. If you know just link to such post I will be happy to add it to OP.
I believe his order could be found in google spreed-sheet posted by paul3, but I have no way to identify it.
Thank you for your effort and time to post this info.

Regards,

tiros

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August 30, 2013, 01:50:10 PM
 #56

an idea for the spreadsheet:

Maybe also add a colum 'Asked for refund' and 'Refund received' ?

So we can track the orders that need delivery Smiley

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August 30, 2013, 03:59:32 PM
 #57

If these were really shipping at 40-50k daily more group buys would have received shipping notification by this point... (Zefir batch 3 and batch 4).
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August 30, 2013, 06:11:11 PM
 #58

If these were really shipping at 40-50k daily more group buys would have received shipping notification by this point... (Zefir batch 3 and batch 4).
I am thinking the same thing.
It would be nice to get a realistic update on when to expect batch arrivals.
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August 30, 2013, 06:46:49 PM
 #59

As group-buy organizer and large-scale buyer I would like to suggest you several options to compensate chip-buyers for the late delivery:
a) refund: no chips, full refund
b) compensation in BTC: deliver chips, compensate XX% of the initial price
c) compensation in chips: deliver chips, add YY% more chips as compensation
d) compensation by upgrades: no chips, convert orders to next-gen chip orders

I'm glad the group buyer leaders are more understanding.

a) I am very open to this, this is what I suggest.
b) I am not a fan of this, on a principle level I rather do a full refund. plus, I rather sell the chips once we have them in hand at a discount, instead of letting people wait.( which is about the same as doing a partial refund in my opinion.)
c) this will not be good, as you know the chips isn't going to get here any faster, and ordering more would run into more delays ( this is the worst option, do not offer.)
d) while in theory this option sounds the best for us right? we keep the money, tout our gen2/3/4 chips and etc etc, but reality is we want to stay away from all pre-orders in the future. as you can imagine, all the problems, rumors and just about everything is caused by the fact we took pre-orders, and we will no longer be doing this.

you are welcome to post this in your thread.
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August 30, 2013, 07:01:49 PM
 #60

As group-buy organizer and large-scale buyer I would like to suggest you several options to compensate chip-buyers for the late delivery:
a) refund: no chips, full refund
b) compensation in BTC: deliver chips, compensate XX% of the initial price
c) compensation in chips: deliver chips, add YY% more chips as compensation
d) compensation by upgrades: no chips, convert orders to next-gen chip orders

I'm glad the group buyer leaders are more understanding.

a) I am very open to this, this is what I suggest.
b) I am not a fan of this, on a principle level I rather do a full refund. plus, I rather sell the chips once we have them in hand at a discount, instead of letting people wait.( which is about the same as doing a partial refund in my opinion.)
c) this will not be good, as you know the chips isn't going to get here any faster, and ordering more would run into more delays ( this is the worst option, do not offer.)
d) while in theory this option sounds the best for us right? we keep the money, tout our gen2/3/4 chips and etc etc, but reality is we want to stay away from all pre-orders in the future. as you can imagine, all the problems, rumors and just about everything is caused by the fact we took pre-orders, and we will no longer be doing this.

you are welcome to post this in your thread.

I'm afraid this leaves only one conclusion, there are no more chips...

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