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Author Topic: [CLOSED-refunds process]Avalon - Chips group buy order time frame and deliveries  (Read 10789 times)
fasmax
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August 30, 2013, 07:06:07 PM
 #61

I am afraid you might be right.
Maybe it did not make sense to manufacture the 110 nm chips since the 55 nm chips are so close to delivery.
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AdamKD
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August 31, 2013, 05:30:59 PM
 #62

This:

REFUNDS for CHIPS... when?



and this:

If these were really shipping at 40-50k daily more group buys would have received shipping notification by this point... (Zefir batch 3 and batch 4).
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August 31, 2013, 08:57:31 PM
 #63


*** FYI ***

Quote
Avalon ASIC
Chips Delivery Update, September Edition

Due to events outside of our control, the delivery of chips have been delayed so far. While the situation are improving and chips are shipping, we have ultimately decided to revert our policy on no refunds and offer the option for customers to request a full refund(in bitcoin) if so desired.

The link to the request form is below, please note this only applies to orders made earlier than June 1st.

In other news, for those who decided to wait or wish to know more about delivery schedule will be glad to note we are receiving a batch of 400,000+ chips on Wednesday, with that we expect to be in good shape for meeting the upcoming deadlines of chip deliveries for orders made in June and later.

In addition, we hope to wrap up generation one, finish shipping the chips, construct the modules and build the 2 module Avalon mini, put this pre-order mess behind us in general and switch gear into 55nm production, tape out generation 3, and start work on improving chip design for generation 4. Only sell what we can produce in a day on the assembly line, and only what's in stock.
[/quote]

Best Regards!!! Grin
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fasmax
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September 01, 2013, 06:39:22 AM
 #64

It would be nice if this list could track refund status.
I think 3 of SebastianJu group buys have been refunded.
tiros
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September 01, 2013, 09:55:02 AM
 #65


*** FYI ***

Quote
Avalon ASIC
Chips Delivery Update, September Edition

Due to events outside of our control, the delivery of chips have been delayed so far. While the situation are improving and chips are shipping, we have ultimately decided to revert our policy on no refunds and offer the option for customers to request a full refund(in bitcoin) if so desired.

The link to the request form is below, please note this only applies to orders made earlier than June 1st.

In other news, for those who decided to wait or wish to know more about delivery schedule will be glad to note we are receiving a batch of 400,000+ chips on Wednesday, with that we expect to be in good shape for meeting the upcoming deadlines of chip deliveries for orders made in June and later.

In addition, we hope to wrap up generation one, finish shipping the chips, construct the modules and build the 2 module Avalon mini, put this pre-order mess behind us in general and switch gear into 55nm production, tape out generation 3, and start work on improving chip design for generation 4. Only sell what we can produce in a day on the assembly line, and only what's in stock.


Best Regards!!! Grin
-anykeywhy-

Thanks, I got it also.


It would be nice if this list could track refund status.
I think 3 of SebastianJu group buys have been refunded.


I will be adding refunds in OP.
Refunds will be noted in a way - first in, first out - so shipping delay can be calculated fairly.

Greed shouldn't be the essence of bitcoin
cpengr
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September 02, 2013, 07:10:28 PM
 #66

It would be nice if this list could track refund status.
I think 3 of SebastianJu group buys have been refunded.


I will be adding refunds in OP.
Refunds will be noted in a way - first in, first out - so shipping delay can be calculated fairly.

tiros, thanks for putting this together. I do agree that refund requests and completion should be tracked in the OP.

However, I don't think that FIFO is the fair way to do it. Seems like it's letting Yifu off easy--which appears to be what's he's trying to make happen.

Suppose you had two spots in Avalon's queue (among many other buyers), and Yifu says, "sorry we're delayed, you'll have to give up your first spot (refund), but keep your second," (EDIT: which is behind many other buyers) would you really think that was fair? The buying should remain FIFO (first-come, first served); thus the refunds should be LIFO. This also shows the full extent of the delay, which I think is appropriate.
tiros
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September 02, 2013, 07:22:56 PM
 #67

It would be nice if this list could track refund status.
I think 3 of SebastianJu group buys have been refunded.


I will be adding refunds in OP.
Refunds will be noted in a way - first in, first out - so shipping delay can be calculated fairly.

tiros, thanks for putting this together. I do agree that refund requests and completion should be tracked in the OP.

However, I don't think that FIFO is the fair way to do it. Seems like it's letting Yifu off easy--which appears to be what's he's trying to make happen.

Suppose you had two spots in Avalon's queue (among many other buyers), and Yifu says, "sorry we're delayed, you'll have to give up your first spot (refund), but keep your second," (EDIT: which is behind many other buyers) would you really think that was fair? The buying should remain FIFO (first-come, first served); thus the refunds should be LIFO. This also shows the full extent of the delay, which I think is appropriate.

When refund is offered for chips shipments that were delayed, once we accept refund or carry on with waiting for delivery, Avalon and Yifu did their parts to undo (at least partly) wrongs they did.
Anyway since chips from various buyers and batches are mixed now, batch number have no meaning anymore.

Yifu is of the hook now, as he did right thing.
Could it been better? It probably could, but we don't have all the info and know stuff that were happening behind closed doors so all we can do is to guess.
Now one thing remains and that is for Yifu to process refund request and give BTC back. He did so for few batches, but zefir didn't got his and right now he is refunding his customers out of his own pocket.

Greed shouldn't be the essence of bitcoin
cpengr
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September 02, 2013, 07:44:09 PM
 #68

When refund is offered for chips shipments that were delayed, once we accept refund or carry on with waiting for delivery, Avalon and Yifu did their parts to undo (at least partly) wrongs they did.

I agree on the partly, but not that they've done their part.

I've explained how losing your place in queue is adding one wrong to another, and that by refunding the first batches before the later ones (or if you display it as such), you're letting Avalon off easy, and allowing this mess to be partly swept under the rug. You appear to be disagreeing with me, but offering no real argument to support your point.

Quote from: tiros
Anyway since chips from various buyers and batches are mixed now, batch number have no meaning anymore.

Mixed how?

Quote from: tiros
Yifu is of the hook now, as he did right thing.

I most certainly disagree about the "off the hook" part. He's taken one step in the right direction.

Anyway, if you still disagree with me, perhaps the most neutral way to display things will be to show the refunds separately, and not assign them to individual orders in your OP? Then readers can draw their own conclusions.

Quote from: tiros
Could it been better? It probably could, but we don't have all the info and know stuff that were happening behind closed doors so all we can do is to guess.
Now one thing remains and that is for Yifu to process refund request and give BTC back. He did so for few batches, but zefir didn't got his and right now he is refunding his customers out of his own pocket.
Bicknellski
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September 03, 2013, 03:45:28 AM
 #69

"Off" the hook?

Not until everyone of his customers is properly refunded or compensated.

I would suggest the community to refrain from doing any further business with him and his company until there is clear evidence that he he has addressed the woefully inadequate communication / customer service. He will certainly be on the hook for some time to come given there a still hundreds of thousands of dollars or product to be delivered or refunded.

Some people have been compensated but let us not give praise just yet if at all.

Dogie trust abuse, spam, bullying, conspiracy posts & insults to forum members. Ask the mods or admins to move Dogie's spam or off topic stalking posts to the link above.
Bitoy
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September 03, 2013, 05:14:06 AM
 #70

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=269950.msg3066689#msg3066689

Zefir 3 batches have been refunded.
tiros
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September 04, 2013, 01:57:45 PM
 #71

We may disagree about it, but my personal opinion as Avalon offered refund is that Yifu is off the hook.
This thread was created for a reason to show how orders are being late and to measure it, and now when refund is offered it means Avalon contacted us in try to undo their wrongs and we had choice to make. It doesn't mean all disputes are solved, all refunds are received, it means they are listening and reacting. I am sure at the end all refunds will be received, and still it will left bitter taste in our mouth knowing it could be allot better with little more effort.

Those who don't want to be dealing with Avalon, are free to make such a choice, but I see Avalon will fix many of their mistakes in next generation chips.
Did they made all mistakes intentionally or not, we can speculate. Should they compensate at least to people who suffered losses because of their broken promises? If I would have funds I would compensate or donate to those customers of Avalon rig batch #3 and to those who put so much effort to design and produce working boards based on Avalon chips like burnin and  bkkcoins. On other hand Avalon isn't obligated to do so, as they never promised you will be making money.

I am closing this thread now when refunds are granted, this thread have no meaning anymore.
Thanks to all that helped getting wider picture of colossal fail and cluster*ck these Avalon chips deliveries have been.

Greed shouldn't be the essence of bitcoin
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