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Author Topic: Should we be concerned about EM emissions?  (Read 727 times)
jlsminingcorp
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August 19, 2013, 05:30:04 PM
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This is not my area of expertise, so apologies for a potentially stupid question. However, I know that there are a lot of experienced members on the forum who will be able to comment on this. There's going to be a lot of new ASIC hardware from a range of suppliers and DIYers being shipped over the next few months (hopefully Grin) and many of us will be running this at home rather than in a DC. Do we need to be worrying about the EM emissions from these mining boards (in terms of the effects on other electronic devices and potentially on people)?

Some suppliers have (or will be) testing their devices. For example, Burnin's boards have passed EMC tests with flying colours (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=179769.msg2699957#msg2699957), ultrix plans to test the bitfury M- and H-boards (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=251966.msg2947409#msg2947409) and so on, but I'm not sure that all will go through this testing process. If we do buy untested devices are there any sensible precautions to take to protect other electronic devices, friends, family, pets etc? There's been talk of copper-plated Jock straps (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=251966.msg2947564#msg2947564) Grin, but should we be doing anything else and is there a simple way to do some basic testing at home?

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August 19, 2013, 05:33:43 PM
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This is not my area of expertise, so apologies for a potentially stupid question. However, I know that there are a lot of experienced members on the forum who will be able to comment on this. There's going to be a lot of new ASIC hardware from a range of suppliers and DIYers being shipped over the next few months (hopefully Grin) and many of us will be running this at home rather than in a DC. Do we need to be worrying about the EM emissions from these mining boards (in terms of the effects on other electronic devices and potentially on people)?

Some suppliers have (or will be) testing their devices. For example, Burnin's boards have passed EMC tests with flying colours (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=179769.msg2699957#msg2699957), ultrix plans to test the bitfury M- and H-boards (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=251966.msg2947409#msg2947409) and so on, but I'm not sure that all will go through this testing process. If we do buy untested devices are there any sensible precautions to take to protect other electronic devices, friends, family, pets etc? There's been talk of copper-plated Jock straps (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=251966.msg2947564#msg2947564) Grin, but should we be doing anything else and is there a simple way to do some basic testing at home?
Other devices yep, as for people, not really. These devices aren't designed with RF propagation in mind, so they don't contain antennas or anything like that. Chances are enclosing the gear in an earthed metal box will solve 99% of any problems that arise.

Probably should put something here.... Maybe an LTC address?
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August 19, 2013, 05:37:13 PM
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Or using mineral oil to reduce that. A responsible company like Intel, does the thing for you.

Mineral oil is used for constructing data farm if air conditioning is not allowed like in Home or in office.

Why only few option for operators? Why only air?
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August 19, 2013, 05:39:58 PM
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Or using mineral oil to reduce that. A responsible company like Intel, does the thing for you.

Mineral oil is used for constructing data farm if air conditioning is not allowed like in Home or in office.

Why only few option for operators? Why only air?

Air is cheap, doesn't make a mess and is easily maintained. Oil can leak and make a mess, costs more to contain and does require maintenance if it is a circulated or open system. Even closed systems require some level of maintenance to ensure parts aren't degraded by the mineral oil.

Same thing applies to water cooling, except you have corrosion to worry about.

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August 19, 2013, 05:58:22 PM
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Or using mineral oil to reduce that. A responsible company like Intel, does the thing for you.

Mineral oil is used for constructing data farm if air conditioning is not allowed like in Home or in office.

Why only few option for operators? Why only air?

Air is cheap, doesn't make a mess and is easily maintained. Oil can leak and make a mess, costs more to contain and does require maintenance if it is a circulated or open system. Even closed systems require some level of maintenance to ensure parts aren't degraded by the mineral oil.

Same thing applies to water cooling, except you have corrosion to worry about.

I agree, I looked into mineral oil and it just wasn't worth the mess.  Servicing equipment using that cooling method is a real hassle.

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jlsminingcorp
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August 19, 2013, 06:24:35 PM
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Other devices yep, as for people, not really. These devices aren't designed with RF propagation in mind, so they don't contain antennas or anything like that. Chances are enclosing the gear in an earthed metal box will solve 99% of any problems that arise.

OK, so some kind of metal casing is advisable then for the bare board miners (unless EMC tested). Will have to get SketchUp fired up then to do some fancy designs Wink!

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August 19, 2013, 06:33:37 PM
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Short answer, no. Not unless you're running something highly sensitive to EM. And if you're not sure, you're not.

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August 19, 2013, 06:36:54 PM
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Do we need to be worrying about the EM emissions from these mining boards (in terms of the effects on other electronic devices and potentially on people)?
electronics: No. Unless the device contains a radio receiver, in which case consult the the regulatory label. also, http://transition.fcc.gov/Bureaus/Engineering_Technology/Documents/bulletins/oet62/oet62rev.pdf
people: lolno

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jlsminingcorp
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August 19, 2013, 07:06:57 PM
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electronics: No. Unless the device contains a radio receiver, in which case consult the the regulatory label. also, http://transition.fcc.gov/Bureaus/Engineering_Technology/Documents/bulletins/oet62/oet62rev.pdf
Thanks for the link, that's very useful. I found the passage "Marketing through a general retail outlet or by mail order to the general public with a simple disclaimer, such as "For Business Use Only," is not sufficient to qualify as Class A. Instead, all marketing (advertising, sale and distribution) must be restricted by the marketer to users in a commercial, industrial, or business environment" quite interesting. I've wondered how much manufacturers can wriggle out of their statutory obligations to consumers by adding the disclaimer "For Business Use Only". Sounds like these ASIC miners should be going for FCC certification/verification in the US. I would imagine that the same is probably true in the EU too. Do you know how aggressively are these rules enforced?

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people: lolno

D'oh! OK, I said it could be a stupid question. I was just about to get my tinfoil hat out (again) Wink. Cheers!

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August 21, 2013, 05:11:52 AM
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electronics: No. Unless the device contains a radio receiver, in which case consult the the regulatory label. also, http://transition.fcc.gov/Bureaus/Engineering_Technology/Documents/bulletins/oet62/oet62rev.pdf

Quote
Thanks for the link, that's very useful. I found the passage "Marketing through a general retail outlet or by mail order to the general public with a simple disclaimer, such as "For Business Use Only," is not sufficient to qualify as Class A. Instead, all marketing (advertising, sale and distribution) must be restricted by the marketer to users in a commercial, industrial, or business environment" quite interesting. I've wondered how much manufacturers can wriggle out of their statutory obligations to consumers by adding the disclaimer "For Business Use Only". Sounds like these ASIC miners should be going for FCC certification/verification in the US. I would imagine that the same is probably true in the EU too. Do you know how aggressively are these rules enforced?
Mostly FCC only gets involved if some commercial operator reports a problem.  So, unless you are interfering with the local radio station, you're probably OK.  And if you're putting out enough energy to interfere with your neighbor's radio, then something is seriously wrong with your setup and you're wasting a ton of money on energy costs.  FCC does have some roaming installations that scan for illegal transmissions, but nothing the average bitcoiner need worry about.
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August 22, 2013, 07:34:46 PM
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Thanks for the link, that's very useful. I found the passage "Marketing through a general retail outlet or by mail order to the general public with a simple disclaimer, such as "For Business Use Only," is not sufficient to qualify as Class A. Instead, all marketing (advertising, sale and distribution) must be restricted by the marketer to users in a commercial, industrial, or business environment" quite interesting. I've wondered how much manufacturers can wriggle out of their statutory obligations to consumers by adding the disclaimer "For Business Use Only". Sounds like these ASIC miners should be going for FCC certification/verification in the US. I would imagine that the same is probably true in the EU too. Do you know how aggressively are these rules enforced?
That's because the manufacturers operate in a regulatory gray area. If I were to speculate, an ASIC unit should generate no more than a standard PC. They consume about the same power, operate at a lower frequency, and are encased in a metal box.

It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.

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jlsminingcorp
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August 22, 2013, 09:05:51 PM
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Thanks for the link, that's very useful. I found the passage "Marketing through a general retail outlet or by mail order to the general public with a simple disclaimer, such as "For Business Use Only," is not sufficient to qualify as Class A. Instead, all marketing (advertising, sale and distribution) must be restricted by the marketer to users in a commercial, industrial, or business environment" quite interesting. I've wondered how much manufacturers can wriggle out of their statutory obligations to consumers by adding the disclaimer "For Business Use Only". Sounds like these ASIC miners should be going for FCC certification/verification in the US. I would imagine that the same is probably true in the EU too. Do you know how aggressively are these rules enforced?
That's because the manufacturers operate in a regulatory gray area. If I were to speculate, an ASIC unit should generate no more than a standard PC. They consume about the same power, operate at a lower frequency, and are encased in a metal box.

Seems like a completely reasonable estimate. Although, it's the ones that aren't in a metal box that I was worried about Wink.

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August 22, 2013, 09:23:56 PM
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Should we be concerned about EM emissions? Hell yeah, your cell phone is melting you brain. that is why people text instead of talking, to get the thing away from their head!

Actually, seriously? In theory, maybe, in reality not likely. If the equipment isn't interfering with other equipment you should be ok, just don't run you erupter under your pillow. Ghz is microwave territory. Shocked
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