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Author Topic: [Work in progess] Burnins Avalon Chip to mining board service  (Read 623954 times)
madmax_ger
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July 10, 2013, 11:14:35 AM
 #1221


Uhm, one chip is not using 57 watts.  That would be quite insane.

thanks, my fault. gonna correct it.

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tiros
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July 10, 2013, 11:15:39 AM
 #1222

hey burnin, about the coming website and payment orders:

in order to get my units assembled asap, should I use btc to pay almost instantly or can I use bank wire and save the same spot on the waiting list as I would get with btc payments?

please answe asap, as it takes time to prepare Smiley

Thanks a lot! You did a great job so far  Cool

Paypal should be just as fast.

EMC-Lab confirmed the appointment.

And i have some more overclocking figures for you guys.
Note: I expect that future versions will be more stable due to a few changes.
341 Mhz 1.2V 57.5W - passed long term tests with 0.2% hw-errors.
409 Mhz 1.2V 68.04W - hw-errors increase to 3%
448 Mhz 1.2V 74.4W - not stable
448 Mhz 1.25V 81.6W - unstable 50% hw-errors
448 Mhz 1.28V 84.016W - unstable 50% hw-errors


That's amazing numbers. So if we're lucky and everything goes well, we can use ~409MHz and get 45% performance increase comparing to original 282 MHz Smiley

Not really. It's about 33.7% only, because you have to calculate the higher power consumption.
But that's fine too Grin

This is for one chip:

Quote
341 Mhz 1.2V 57.5W - passed long term tests with 0.2% hw-errors.
http://btcinvest.net/bitcoin-mining-profit-calculator.php?diff=21335329.113983&dcosts=10&diff_mincrease=10&blpbtc=25&dhsmhs=341&btcusd_mincrease=10&btcusd=74.53&dpowcon=57.5&dleadtime=8&pcost=0.25&calcweeks=12&action=calc

compared to

Quote
448 Mhz 1.2V 74.4W - not stable
http://btcinvest.net/bitcoin-mining-profit-calculator.php?diff=21335329.113983&dcosts=10&diff_mincrease=10&blpbtc=25&dhsmhs=448&btcusd_mincrease=10&btcusd=74.53&dpowcon=74.4&dleadtime=8&pcost=0.25&calcweeks=12&action=calc

See on the right for profit after power expenses.
And there are not calculated in the errors yet  Wink



Uhm, one chip is not using 57 watts.  That would be quite insane.

Those figures in W are per board of 20 cips

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July 10, 2013, 11:17:51 AM
 #1223

Quote
Those figures in W are per board of 20 cips

Yeha, but you have to calculate that when you think about profitability. you cant use ONE Chip and then put 57w there Cheesy

That would be worse than an FPGA.
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July 10, 2013, 11:18:36 AM
 #1224


Uhm, one chip is not using 57 watts.  That would be quite insane.

thanks, my fault. gonna correct it.

corrected. see https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=179769.msg2697330#msg2697330

thanks guys  Roll Eyes

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July 10, 2013, 05:48:59 PM
 #1225

EMC test passed in the first go Grin.
Officially compliant to EN55022 A, measured at TÜV-Nord.
That's not easily achieved with a naked board with huge dc/dc converters like this one.
Those who ever had to pass an emission tests can testify that.


Test receiver:


Chamber:


Test Setup, ATX power supply is in that box:


More detailed:


 
[
And i have some more overclocking figures for you guys.
Note: I expect that future versions will be more stable due to a few changes.
341 Mhz 1.2V 57.5W - passed long term tests with 0.2% hw-errors.
409 Mhz 1.2V 68.04W - hw-errors increase to 3%
448 Mhz 1.2V 74.4W - not stable
448 Mhz 1.25V 81.6W - unstable 50% hw-errors
448 Mhz 1.28V 84.016W - unstable 50% hw-errors


Burnin when you say "future versions", are you referring to the hardware or software?

I personally could wait for revised hardware that could run at a stable 448Mhz.

When i said future versions I meant the production version, done some improvements to the design based on the prototype.
If that enables us to have them running at 450mhz - more test required.
I will do more extensive tests tomorrow, when I've fitted the production heat sink (which arrived yesterday).


News for the Watercooling guys:
The boards can now also be ordered with Toolheads Watercooling solution fitted.

Do you have an idea what causes the extra power consumption?

When chip gets hot it starts consuming more at the same frequency and voltage. Semiconductor basics.

Thank you for your attempt at contributing something useful. Please allow me to brush up your knowledge on semiconductor basics a little:

The microscopic conductivity of a material, sigma, can be described in terms of the motion of electrons (or other charge carriers like holes):

sigma = n*e^2*tau/m'

where
n = carrier concentration
e = electron charge
tau = relaxation time (time between collisions)
m' = effective mass of the electron

In semiconductors, the carrier concentration increases with temperature, due to excitations across the band gap Eg. So n is proportional to exp(-Eg/2kT). The relaxation time tau is inversely proportional to temperature. As the exponential dependence of n dominates, conductivity increases with temperature in semiconductors.

The conductivity of metals however, linearly decreases with temperature. But that effect is not sufficient to explain the almost doubling of the power draw at 448MHz, compared to 282MHz - because that would imply that the chips were running twice as hot (not in Celsius, but in terms of absolute temperature K), so that would be 500+°C.

For more details, please refer to Charles Kittel,"Introduction to solid state physics", or any other book on basic solid state physics.

So, any more explanation attempts from your side?

Nice explanation, for static semiconductor losses.
We're talking CMOS logic here, the power increases linear with frequency and quadratic with voltage.
And the efficiency of the dc/dc converter decreases with increased load.
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July 10, 2013, 05:52:44 PM
 #1226

Nice to see this :-) Any estimation on the final pricing with normal cooling and watercooling ?
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July 10, 2013, 05:55:14 PM
 #1227

EMC test passed in the first go Grin.
Officially compliant to EN555022 A, measured at TÜV-Nord.
That's not easily achieved with a naked board with huge dc/dc converters like this one.
Those who ever had to pass an emission tests can testify that.
Fantastic!  Cheesy
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July 10, 2013, 05:58:57 PM
 #1228

EMC test passed in the first go Grin.
Officially compliant to EN55022 A, measured at TÜV-Nord.
That's not easily achieved with a naked board with huge dc/dc converters like this one.
Those who ever had to pass an emission tests can testify that.


Test receiver:






Rohde & Schwarz... very much interesting  Tongue
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July 10, 2013, 06:04:34 PM
 #1229

Good news.

Is the watercooling made of copper or aluminum? Any thoughts on price range for that? Hope it's cheap.. otherwise you force me to do my own  Embarrassed

Hai
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July 10, 2013, 07:24:53 PM
 #1230

EMC test passed in the first go Grin.
Officially compliant to EN55022 A, measured at TÜV-Nord.
That's not easily achieved with a naked board with huge dc/dc converters like this one.
Those who ever had to pass an emission tests can testify that.

Really impressive, test methodology and seriousness. Congrats!
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July 10, 2013, 08:01:00 PM
 #1231

Good News, very professional work ;-)
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July 10, 2013, 08:32:03 PM
 #1232

EMC test passed in the first go Grin.
Officially compliant to EN55022 A, measured at TÜV-Nord.
That's not easily achieved with a naked board with huge dc/dc converters like this one.
Those who ever had to pass an emission tests can testify that.

Really impressive, test methodology and seriousness. Congrats!

+1

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July 10, 2013, 08:46:16 PM
 #1233

Good news.

Is the watercooling made of copper or aluminum? Any thoughts on price range for that? Hope it's cheap.. otherwise you force me to do my own  Embarrassed
Aluminium, its optimized for cost. (2 Boards per cooler)
It will be around 50eur, 10 to 15 eur more then with air cooling per board.


Regarding the release of the sources:
I am going to release them when the first units reach the customers.
Have to recuperate the development- and running costs.  Undecided

Paypal is problematic but i'll risk it with them.
To stop my EU-Customers from choosing it over normal wire transfers:
Order date/time will (within reason) now be the determining factor (within a batch).
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July 10, 2013, 08:49:07 PM
 #1234

Order date/time will (within reason) now be the determining factor (within a batch).
OK, I give up sleep until further notice.
burnin (OP)
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July 10, 2013, 08:51:03 PM
 #1235

Order date/time will (within reason) now be the determining factor (within a batch).
OK, I give up sleep until further notice.


I'll give you guys 24hrs warning through the email-newsletter.
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July 10, 2013, 08:52:57 PM
 #1236

Good news.

Is the watercooling made of copper or aluminum? Any thoughts on price range for that? Hope it's cheap.. otherwise you force me to do my own  Embarrassed
Aluminium, its optimized for cost. (2 Boards per cooler)
It will be around 50eur, 10 to 15 eur more then with air cooling per board.


Regarding the release of the sources:
I am going to release them when the first units reach the customers.
Have to recuperate the development- and running costs.  Undecided

Paypal is problematic but i'll risk it with them.
To stop my EU-Customers from choosing it over normal wire transfers:
Order date/time will (within reason) now be the determining factor (within a batch).

Thanks! Just what I was hoping for. I seriously fell in love with you.

Hai
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July 10, 2013, 08:53:32 PM
 #1237

Order date/time will (within reason) now be the determining factor (within a batch).
OK, I give up sleep until further notice.


I'll give you guys 24hrs warning through the email-newsletter.
Thanks. Smiley
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July 10, 2013, 08:58:55 PM
 #1238

Order date/time will (within reason) now be the determining factor (within a batch).
OK, I give up sleep until further notice.


I'll give you guys 24hrs warning through the email-newsletter.

I predict some webserver having a hard time 24h later Smiley
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July 10, 2013, 09:01:25 PM
 #1239

Order date/time will (within reason) now be the determining factor (within a batch).
OK, I give up sleep until further notice.


I'll give you guys 24hrs warning through the email-newsletter.

Thanks burnin, a thoroughly professional job done on every aspect so far! Thank you.

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July 10, 2013, 09:02:52 PM
 #1240

Burnin is absolutely good in time and chips seem to be delivered sooooon  Smiley
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