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Author Topic: only $5 million seized from MtGOX - making fears of insolvency ATM SMALL  (Read 6949 times)
superduh
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August 20, 2013, 01:04:30 AM
 #1

$3 million was apparently seized from Dwolla accounts - what happens to it noone knows.

i'd like to bring to attention that mtgox made that much in fees in a month during that time period.

this means that most money is likely very safe and just unable to be withdrawn due to bank embargo or other issues facing them.
insolvency from that - not likely at all.

carry on bulls and bears.

of course everyone blames gox for everything - they are the big gorilla who's getting beat up bad. but, that gorilla may very well survive.

edit: updated with wells fargo account info

ok
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01BTC10
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August 20, 2013, 01:06:37 AM
 #2

Money was freezed and not seized for what it's worth.
superduh
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August 20, 2013, 01:08:40 AM
 #3

Money was freezed and not seized for what it's worth.

my bad - didn't bother thinking carefully about word choice -

ok
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August 20, 2013, 01:11:05 AM
 #4

Money was freezed and not seized for what it's worth.

my bad - didn't bother thinking carefully about word choice -
Don't worry journalist neither: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=277817.0;topicseen
superduh
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August 20, 2013, 01:14:50 AM
 #5

Money was freezed and not seized for what it's worth.

my bad - didn't bother thinking carefully about word choice -
Don't worry journalist neither: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=277817.0;topicseen

i did actually borrow their headline - heh - i'm no better than a journalist ><

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JimboToronto
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August 20, 2013, 01:26:50 AM
 #6

At the time I posted somewhere that probably their turnover was so fast that what was in their Dwolla and Wells Fargo accounts at the time of the freezes was probably far less than what they made in fees within the first few days of increased volume following the news.

They earn on all trades, buys and sells alike. Of course they make more while prices are high, but they earn either way.

The money grabbed wasn't the issue. The interruption of transfers of USD was, big time. It still obviously is.
superduh
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August 20, 2013, 01:41:44 AM
 #7

At the time I posted somewhere that probably their turnover was so fast that what was in their Dwolla and Wells Fargo accounts at the time of the freezes was probably far less than what they made in fees within the first few days of increased volume following the news.

They earn on all trades, buys and sells alike. Of course they make more while prices are high, but they earn either way.

The money grabbed wasn't the issue. The interruption of transfers of USD was, big time. It still obviously is.

people question mtgox's "solvency" and some thought the funds seized were substantial to make gox fold without being able to pay out depositors

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ElectricMucus
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August 20, 2013, 01:59:28 AM
 #8

3 million isn't that a small number. Look at the orderbook ATH, it's shy over 20 million.

I don't think there is or was any significant amount above that ever on mtgox.
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August 20, 2013, 03:10:35 AM
 #9

I don't believe mtgox has ever stated that they keep user's deposits in segregated accounts. Does anyone know if mtgox has ever released an external audit or any evidence that they have liquid money in reserve?
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August 20, 2013, 03:32:13 AM
 #10

MagicalTux: I could comment on the fact that our income since April is around 8 million USD

haters gon hate and EM will never shut up or get his facts straight

ok
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August 20, 2013, 03:37:03 AM
 #11

MagicalTux: I could comment on the fact that our income since April is around 8 million USD

haters gon hate and EM will never shut up or get his facts straight

Is that 8 million USD or 8 million mtgoxUSD?
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August 20, 2013, 04:06:30 AM
 #12

EM will never shut up or get his facts straight

haters gonna hate.
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August 20, 2013, 04:49:08 AM
 #13

EM's PR tips for Gox:

Publish Bank statements of your USD funds, these don't have to include the funds you actually own just the ones of your clients.
Run a blog concerning all your current legal issues, you don't have to include every detail just keep everyone updated.
Change your system so that the amount of Bitcoin funds can be audited by everybody people need to know which addresses store their funds.
Don't ever invite Roger Ver again.
bitcon
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August 20, 2013, 05:02:29 AM
 #14

EM's PR tips for Gox:

Publish Bank statements of your USD funds, these don't have to include the funds you actually own just the ones of your clients.
Run a blog concerning all your current legal issues, you don't have to include every detail just keep everyone updated.
Change your system so that the amount of Bitcoin funds can be audited by everybody people need to know which addresses store their funds.
Don't ever invite Roger Ver again.


you could say the same thing to the FED


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hmmmstrange
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August 20, 2013, 05:49:19 AM
 #15

EM's PR tips for Gox:

Publish Bank statements of your USD funds, these don't have to include the funds you actually own just the ones of your clients.
Run a blog concerning all your current legal issues, you don't have to include every detail just keep everyone updated.
Change your system so that the amount of Bitcoin funds can be audited by everybody people need to know which addresses store their funds.
Don't ever invite Roger Ver again.


Common sense is, if things were all hunky dory, they would do just that.
joesmoe2012
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August 20, 2013, 06:41:09 AM
 #16

Money was freezed and not seized for what it's worth.

Then why was a Seizure Order issued? Seems to me it was Seized

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/701175-mt-gox-dwolla-warrant-idg-news-service.html


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August 20, 2013, 08:25:08 AM
 #17

I dont believe that 2 to 3 million $ would make Gox delay withdrawals for as long as they have been.

Either their orderbook is a lie or there is another bigger issue/detail that has not been made public.

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phoenix1
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August 20, 2013, 09:00:18 AM
 #18

I dont believe that 2 to 3 million $ would make Gox delay withdrawals for as long as they have been.

Agree

Quote
Either their orderbook is a lie or there is another bigger issue/detail that has not been made public.


There is ... as I read they can't find another bank that will do business with them and their current bank appears to want out. That's the information more or less in the public domain from the transcripts relayed here.
There may very well be other issues too - they have intimated that there are some things they cannot reveal, presumably in order not to rock the boat and make the situation worse. Quite what boat is rocking I do not know ... but it is obviously one that has considerable power over Gox, or they would not be afraid of upsetting it.
There are big issues and the situation is both serious and shows no signs of improving in the short term
What it means for the medium term is anyone's guess, but the longer it goes on, clearly the more concerned people will become. Converting fiat to BTC becomes the rational choice at some point.

"Before you embark on a journey of revenge, dig two graves"  - Confucius (China 551BC-479 BC)
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August 20, 2013, 09:35:44 AM
 #19

If $3mil is a month or more of revenue, then that is lot.  Think about staff costs, equipment costs, rent, other overhead, legal fees, paying out to contractors for the new trading engine (there were supposing getting in a large firm that handles large banking systems, that can't be cheap)...fk even their monthly dunkin doughnuts bill must run close to a mil.

And this is only the dwolla seizure...what about the "significant losses" from bank transfers being reversed (that they mentioned in the last press release).



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phoenix1
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August 20, 2013, 09:45:58 AM
 #20

If $3mil is a month or more of revenue, then that is lot.  Think about staff costs, equipment costs, rent, other overhead, legal fees, paying out to contractors for the new trading engine (there were supposing getting in a large firm that handles large banking systems, that can't be cheap)...fk even their monthly dunkin doughnuts bill must run close to a mil.

The $3m that is seized does not belong to Gox - it belongs to customers
Stands to reason that this would only become a problem for withdrawals if Gox was down to it's last $3m. Given the size of the orderbook and their pofits, this seems highly unlikely, unless there is something we don't know about. I am not suggesting there is (solvency-wise)

I am assuming they do not have segregated customer accounts - if this were the case they could simply say to those whose money is in the dwolla account 'sorry, you cant get your money out for now til we sort this out'. Trading and transfers could then resume as normal for everyone else.

"Before you embark on a journey of revenge, dig two graves"  - Confucius (China 551BC-479 BC)
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