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Author Topic: CoinJoin: Bitcoin privacy for the real world  (Read 291287 times)
Sir Lagsalot
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November 23, 2014, 05:06:00 PM
Last edit: November 24, 2014, 08:47:27 AM by Sir Lagsalot
 #601

I'm coding an implementation of my idea. Stay tuned.

By the way, does anyone have any ideas for the name of the project?

Good idea, belcher.

Mixtape!

edit: MixTip is probably better.

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November 23, 2014, 09:53:51 PM
 #602

Hi everybody, i have a question regarding the cascads and transaction fees.

So, in the first post it says that you can get better anonymity when you cascade your outputs.

If i have 5 BTC and find e.g. 3 People who also want to anonymize 5 BTC i can make a CoinJoin transcation tx_1 with them. The first (minor) problem is, that we have to pay transaction fees. So every praticipant have inputs with at least 5.1 BTC (0.1 BTC for fees). If we have that, we can make the transaction tx_1 where the outputs have a value of 5 BTC.
The problem that i see is, that if i want to cascade, say 3 times, i have to pay transaction fees every time.
I see two ways one could do that.

1. The transaction fees for the second transaction, which uses the output from transaction tx_1 is paid only from that output/input. So i have to find participants who want to make a CoinJoin Transaction with an Output of 4.9 BTC (5BTC - 0.1 Fee) which could be hard, or i find participants who want to make a transaction with less than 4.9 BTC. If i allow participants with lower values the rest is send to an change address of mine. But in this case i can't , in the beginning, know how much Bitcoins i have left in the output after say three cascades.
So if i want a cascade of three and at the end i want to have 5 anonymous BTCs the first Input must be 5.3 BTC -> output ist 5.2. The second Input is 5.2 BTC -> output 5.1 BTC. The third Input is 5.1 BTC -> 5.0 output.
I think it could be hard to find participants with exactly the amount of Inputs that i need. Furthermore i have to know in advance how long my cascade has to be and how much bitcoins i want in the end.

2. The transaction fees is paid by another Input.
So Alice makes transaction tx_1 with an  Input of 5.1 BTC -> output is 5.0 BTC.
The second transaction tx_2 consists of the Input with 5.0 BTC from the last transaction, and a new Input with 0.1 BTC for my fees.
Assume an attacker who can match all Bitcoin addresses to the person behind these addresses excluding the output addresses used for outputs in CoinJoin transactions.
If Alice uses an address  for the transaction fees input , which the attacker can match to Alice, the attacker knows which output of tx_1 belongs to Alice.
Why?
The attacker knows who participates in tx_1 because he knows the persons behind the inputs. The only thing he doesn't knows is, which ouput belongs to which participan. But if one output is used in a second transaction in which Alice pays the fees for, and no other input in that transaction could come from Alice, the only plausible way is, that Alice is the owner of the ouput from tx_1 which is used in tx_2. In that case the anonymity of the CoinJoin Transaction tx_1 is broken.
This even works if the fee Input comes from another CoinJoin transaction. You just have to look at the inputs of the CoinJoin transaction uses for the fee input, if one input matches an address of Alice you can be pretty sure, that the output from tx_1 also belongs to Alice.

So my question is, am i missing something, or is this really a problem when using cascades in CoinJoin. Cause i see no other option than the first case, if you want to use cascades and don't want the anonymity broken by the fees.

I hope you can unterstand what i mean.

Greetings
Duky

I think I have a rough understanding of what you're pondering.  I believe that OP has dropped transaction fees from the introduction for simplicity and from the tone it should be clear that he's primarily interested in a little extra privacy as opposed to hardened secrecy.

If we assume the hostile environment of your scenario 2 and desire regular, thorough mixing then I would first think about dropping the "all inputs/outputs should be of the same size" assumption.  Of course, we'd have to take care here not to allow varying input/output sizes to reveal too much information.  If we want regular mixing we really also ought to tackle the issue of combining outputs (always a pain).  Here's a first thought:

Inputs(5)     Outputs(110)
Party_A:1.5671 BTC1 x1 BTC
0.3894 BTC29 x0.1 BTC
0.0015 BTC25 x0.01 BTC
Party_B:1.5000 BTC33 x0.001 BTC
Party_C:0.7082 BTC22 x0.0001 BTC
0.0203 BTC
(Fee: 0.0013 BTC)

I'm afraid I lack the time to explain everything I'm thinking here but I hope this example transaction gives you an idea or two.  I'll happily try to tackle a follow-up question if you have one.
belcher
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November 25, 2014, 12:51:25 PM
 #603

I'm coding an implementation of my idea. Stay tuned.

By the way, does anyone have any ideas for the name of the project?
Yup, I hope to see it implemented on Darkwallet Smiley

Yep I agree.
Hopefully something like this will be in many kinds of wallets. An Electrum plugin also seems like a low-hanging fruit.

1HZBd22eQLgbwxjwbCtSjhoPFWxQg8rBd9
JoinMarket - CoinJoin that people will actually use.
PGP fingerprint: 0A8B 038F 5E10 CC27 89BF CFFF EF73 4EA6 77F3 1129
belcher
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January 09, 2015, 09:50:13 PM
 #604

Last few months I've been working on an implementation of my idea.

I'm calling it Joinmarket.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=919116.msg10096718

The coinjoiner bots meet in an IRC channel. The bots announce their orders in an open-outcry trading pit style. Transaction data is sent between users as IRC private messages. Encryption is a planned feature to stop the IRC server eavesdropping. I have plans one day to move away from IRC entirely and have the users meet in some kind of peer to peer network.

Github: https://github.com/chris-belcher/joinmarket
IRC: irc.freenode.net #joinmarket

1HZBd22eQLgbwxjwbCtSjhoPFWxQg8rBd9
JoinMarket - CoinJoin that people will actually use.
PGP fingerprint: 0A8B 038F 5E10 CC27 89BF CFFF EF73 4EA6 77F3 1129
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January 11, 2015, 02:47:39 PM
 #605

Last few months I've been working on an implementation of my idea.

I'm calling it Joinmarket.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=919116.msg10096718

The coinjoiner bots meet in an IRC channel. The bots announce their orders in an open-outcry trading pit style. Transaction data is sent between users as IRC private messages. Encryption is a planned feature to stop the IRC server eavesdropping. I have plans one day to move away from IRC entirely and have the users meet in some kind of peer to peer network.

Github: https://github.com/chris-belcher/joinmarket
IRC: irc.freenode.net #joinmarket

I checked it out, it's a great idea that already works! Thank you!

Looking at the TODO and some of the code it seems there's still quite a bit of work to be done, though.

Seems to me electrum integration would be a rather low-hanging fruit, no?

PGP key molecular F9B70769 fingerprint 9CDD C0D3 20F8 279F 6BE0  3F39 FC49 2362 F9B7 0769
belcher
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May 08, 2015, 12:11:26 AM
Last edit: June 15, 2015, 06:11:35 PM by belcher
 #606

I'm pleased to announce the mainnet version of JoinMarket.

Expect glitches and a command line interface. But it works.

Here's some CoinJoins people have already done
https://blockchain.info/tx/601d9c15bc1edd2fe3e5c853ed111d11e9c0a5fb66c75571c7f10fa0d8ab23bb 5-party coinjoin
https://blockchain.info/tx/b85a3b563474ca98ba1809460e61a50053899c21f9869afb6a3a6d4b4cb00b7c 4-party coinjoin
https://blockchain.info/tx/e8b793b3464641df9404993c3101f81208b2d774f51a1ec748a608fbc9e22629 3-party coinjoin
https://blockchain.info/tx/665a9d7848cc0d28869ef866ca9a1117f20358e1e372dbbb01f1b75054584e70 3-party coinjoin

Only pocket change amounts for now, if anyone found an exploit bug they could theoretically clean out your wallet. My yield generator bot is running happily right now, I've already earned about 25000 satoshi.

I will be working on an Electrum plugin to make it easy to use. Electrum doesn't have a testnet version which is one reason we've moved to the mainnet now.

1HZBd22eQLgbwxjwbCtSjhoPFWxQg8rBd9
JoinMarket - CoinJoin that people will actually use.
PGP fingerprint: 0A8B 038F 5E10 CC27 89BF CFFF EF73 4EA6 77F3 1129
Mixles
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June 12, 2015, 12:13:32 PM
Last edit: June 14, 2015, 10:01:05 AM by Mixles
 #607

In order to further incentivize work in this space there is now a multisignature escrow bounty fund:

   3M8XGFBKwkf7miBzpkU3x2DoWwAVrD1mhk
                    (yes, Bitcoin addresses can also start with a 3)

This is a two-of-three multisignature escrow with myself, Theymos, and Pieter Wuille as signers. To release any coin sent to this address at least two of these people must sign the transaction.

The bounty fund will pay out as funds are available according to the signers best judgment for completed work proposed in this thread that furthers the goal of making improved transaction privacy a practical reality for Bitcoin users.

Please feel free to contribute to the above address to support work on this infrastructure.

I would like to make a claim on this fund for work done on Compact Confidential Transactions (subject to the ongoing peer review).

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1085436.msg11597427

CoinJoin should 'just work' in this scheme, and has a similar interface to gmaxwell's Confidential Transactions for keeping participant's balances hidden from other participants.

Participants generate some random inputs, and same number of random outputs, to themselves with a zero sum, and ensure that they do not introduce any fuzz over/underflow, so the fee is fixed.

An alternative approach, is to let participants share only their fee delta, guaranteeing that everyone makes the same fee adjustment, in which case the number of outputs can also differ to the number of inputs for each participant.

If anyone puts in too much or too little, their sum, and the whole transaction sum, won't come out as zero and the transaction will be invalid.

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belcher
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June 16, 2015, 01:28:04 PM
 #608

In order to further incentivize work in this space there is now a multisignature escrow bounty fund:

   3M8XGFBKwkf7miBzpkU3x2DoWwAVrD1mhk
                    (yes, Bitcoin addresses can also start with a 3)

This is a two-of-three multisignature escrow with myself, Theymos, and Pieter Wuille as signers. To release any coin sent to this address at least two of these people must sign the transaction.

The bounty fund will pay out as funds are available according to the signers best judgment for completed work proposed in this thread that furthers the goal of making improved transaction privacy a practical reality for Bitcoin users.

Please feel free to contribute to the above address to support work on this infrastructure.

I would like to make a claim on this fund for work done on Compact Confidential Transactions (subject to the ongoing peer review).

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1085436.msg11597427

CoinJoin should 'just work' in this scheme, and has a similar interface to gmaxwell's Confidential Transactions for keeping participant's balances hidden from other participants.

Participants generate some random inputs, and same number of random outputs, to themselves with a zero sum, and ensure that they do not introduce any fuzz over/underflow, so the fee is fixed.

An alternative approach, is to let participants share only their fee delta, guaranteeing that everyone makes the same fee adjustment, in which case the number of outputs can also differ to the number of inputs for each participant.

If anyone puts in too much or too little, their sum, and the whole transaction sum, won't come out as zero and the transaction will be invalid.


It looks like you might need to write some code, as the post says "for completed work proposed in this thread that furthers the goal of making improved transaction privacy a practical reality for Bitcoin users."

1HZBd22eQLgbwxjwbCtSjhoPFWxQg8rBd9
JoinMarket - CoinJoin that people will actually use.
PGP fingerprint: 0A8B 038F 5E10 CC27 89BF CFFF EF73 4EA6 77F3 1129
Mixles
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June 17, 2015, 02:36:34 AM
Last edit: June 17, 2015, 02:54:09 AM by Mixles
 #609

It looks like you might need to write some code, as the post says "for completed work proposed in this thread that furthers the goal of making improved transaction privacy a practical reality for Bitcoin users."

Just as well that it does not say "for completed code". Otherwise I would be going against the thing. In a knowledge economy, new knowledge (and new code) takes a lot of completed works. Anyway, the review is not complete yet so my claim might not be valid. And even if it is valid or invalid logically, the fund is ultimately at the discretion of two individuals. If they want to encourage or discourage this kind of research is up to them.

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October 29, 2015, 05:19:29 PM
 #610

In order to further incentivize work in this space there is now a multisignature escrow bounty fund:

   3M8XGFBKwkf7miBzpkU3x2DoWwAVrD1mhk
                    (yes, Bitcoin addresses can also start with a 3)

This is a two-of-three multisignature escrow with myself, Theymos, and Pieter Wuille as signers. To release any coin sent to this address at least two of these people must sign the transaction.

The bounty fund will pay out as funds are available according to the signers best judgment for completed work proposed in this thread that furthers the goal of making improved transaction privacy a practical reality for Bitcoin users.

Please feel free to contribute to the above address to support work on this infrastructure.

Multisig address construction details:
Code:
Key from Theymos:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

Here is a public key of mine, usable for the CoinJoin bounty fund:
02d5f2b9c68b22006161dfe58a78b37dc2b577e8bb4e4522940830264eb3b3a38b
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----

iF4EAREIAAYFAlISs5MACgkQxlVWk9q1kednkgD/WvE3F1hSoKHIr+y7q3O6xbGp
FM+P/lVbi/nZugrlNKABALMhYih2Ov80OS1PLMX9UpONn2eE2Xu+ZkxZ2SkQFfCU
=lFI0
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Key from Gmaxwell:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Here is a public key of mine, usable for the CoinJoin bounty fund:
027b48575c15712867a8a1e6c9f52f510946130bbdf3b1e2feb344b8b68232ffb1
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----

iEYEARECAAYFAlIbCV4ACgkQrIWTYrBBO/ooAgCdG9twTEFH5q+5Pip9qDOGsoww
a7YAoLfVP4CBaxk5mnpMXVHpQXqgVwxL
=k1JR
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Key from Pieter:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256
 
Here is a public key of mine, usable for the CoinJoin bounty fund:
0292782efcb08d621c360d055f407c8e75ffbbd06f6b7009c1432ca9eaa6732592
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux)
 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=70Dh
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

2-of-3 Address construction:
$ bitcoind createmultisig 2 '["02d5f2b9c68b22006161dfe58a78b37dc2b577e8bb4e4522940830264eb3b3a38b","027b48575c15712867a8a1e6c9f52f510946130bbdf3b1e2feb344b8b68232ffb1","0292782efcb08d621c360d055f407c8e75ffbbd06f6b7009c1432ca9eaa6732592"]'
{
    "address" : "3M8XGFBKwkf7miBzpkU3x2DoWwAVrD1mhk",
    "redeemScript" : "522102d5f2b9c68b22006161dfe58a78b37dc2b577e8bb4e4522940830264eb3b3a38b21027b48575c15712867a8a1e6c9f52f510946130bbdf3b1e2feb344b8b68232ffb1210292782efcb08d621c360d055f407c8e75ffbbd06f6b7009c1432ca9eaa673259253ae"
}

Would this suite Joinmarket? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=919116

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dooglus
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October 29, 2015, 05:26:45 PM
 #611

The bounty fund will pay out [...] for completed work proposed in this thread that furthers the goal of making improved transaction privacy a practical reality for Bitcoin users.

Would this suite Joinmarket? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=919116

Was the work proposed in this thread?

If so, JoinMarket definitely qualifies.

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October 29, 2015, 05:39:56 PM
 #612

The bounty fund will pay out [...] for completed work proposed in this thread that furthers the goal of making improved transaction privacy a practical reality for Bitcoin users.

Would this suite Joinmarket? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=919116

Was the work proposed in this thread?
I guess only gmaxwell knows the answer to this question. In my eyes Joinmarket is going further than what has been suggested in this thread as it adds the incentive necessary for CoinJoin to actually go somewhere.


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tommorisonwebdesign
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October 30, 2015, 08:24:30 PM
 #613

It is definitely an interesting idea. I would definitely like to see am implementation of the concept coded and implemented.

Signatures? How about learning a skill... I don't care either way. Everybody has to make a living somehow.
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October 30, 2015, 11:17:57 PM
 #614

It is definitely an interesting idea. I would definitely like to see am implementation of the concept coded and implemented.

Check out JoinMarket.

It's an implementation of the concept coded and implemented.

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October 31, 2015, 02:55:26 AM
 #615

I can't see any reason for why JoinMarket development shouldn't be give some or all of this fund.
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November 16, 2015, 01:22:50 AM
 #616

+1 for JoinMarket (and perhaps TailsJoin getting a small percentage as well)

Would love to have gmaxwell take a look at the implementation and provide feedback.
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January 07, 2016, 02:46:02 AM
 #617

Probably nobody will care, but....

1) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/3226#issuecomment-164755098

2) https://github.com/bitcoin-dot-org/bitcoin.org/pull/1129#issuecomment-155241130

Cheers

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January 25, 2016, 06:18:15 AM
 #618

I'm pleased to announce the mainnet version of JoinMarket.

Expect glitches and a command line interface. But it works.

(...)

I will be working on an Electrum plugin to make it easy to use. Electrum doesn't have a testnet version which is one reason we've moved to the mainnet now.

At this point, do you have an Electrum plugin?  If so, where to go to find it?
Am assuming at this point, it's probably here..
https://github.com/JoinMarket-Org/joinmarket/issues/44
and also
https://github.com/JoinMarket-Org/joinmarket/tree/electrum-plugin
If there's a particular file that needs attention/work pls. advise.

ABISprotocol (Github/Gist)
http://abis.io
belcher
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January 25, 2016, 11:08:56 AM
 #619

The electrum plugin would work by having a sidecar daemon that the plugin sends transaction information to and obtains an unsigned coinjoin transaction. The files are electrum-plugin-daemon.py and electrum-plugin.py, although that branch is probably quite stale.

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JoinMarket - CoinJoin that people will actually use.
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mamadmankan
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January 25, 2016, 04:26:26 PM
 #620

IMHO, it could be used as a load balancing device for a system with a fixed block size limit. CoinJoins happen automatically to help compress more transactions into the available block space. This could provide a good argument against a scheme with a continuously variable block size, or to a scheme with no limit at all (although I don't think anyone has yet made any serious proposal for the latter). It also illustrates that CoinJoin really is just that, joining inputs and outputs into single transactions, regardless of the utility you're seeking from doing so.
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