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Author Topic: Do I deserve to die and do I deserve healthcare?  (Read 3607 times)
david4dev
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July 11, 2011, 09:23:34 PM
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Imagine I have a fatal, but treatable, illness. The treatment costs more than I could personally afford. Due to my financial situation I can't afford any health insurance.

In which, if any, of the following cases do I deserve to die and in which to I deserve healthcare:

  • 1) I was a hard working citizen but due to no fault of my own I lost my job and am currently looking for work but unable to find any.
  • 2) I am a child born into a poor family.
  • 3) I have never worked due to laziness.
  • 4) I did have a job but got fired for a valid reason. Due to my employment history, I am unable to find another job.
  • 5) I committed a criminal offence and was sent to prison. I am now out of prison and can't find work due to my criminal record.

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randomguy7
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July 11, 2011, 09:25:36 PM
 #2

Sorry for offtopic but: Atlas? Is this you?
JA37
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July 11, 2011, 09:25:50 PM
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Die? None of the above.
Healthcare? All of the above.

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July 11, 2011, 09:27:34 PM
 #4

Imagine I have a fatal, but treatable, illness. The treatment costs more than I could personally afford. Due to my financial situation I can't afford any health insurance.

In which, if any, of the following cases do I deserve to die:

  • 1) I was a hard working citizen but due to no fault of my own I lost my job and am currently looking for work but unable to find any.
  • 2) I am a child born into a poor family.
  • 3) I have never worked due to laziness.
  • 4) I did have a job but got fired for a valid reason. Due to my employment history, I am unable to find another job.
  • 5) I committed a criminal offence and was sent to prison. I am now out of prison and can't find work due to my criminal record.

Deserve to die? None.

I think you mean, which of the above justifies coercing others to help you and again the answer is "none".
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July 11, 2011, 09:28:40 PM
 #5

I'm against death sentence even for the worst offenses, torture on the other hand...

(I dont always get new reply notifications, pls send a pm when you think it has happened)

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July 11, 2011, 09:29:54 PM
 #6

In none of those cases do you deserve to die. Nobody deserves to have bad luck. However, no society can afford to save everyone. Many people deserve all kinds of things that it is not possible to provide them. That a person deserves something does not create an obligation on others to see that they get it.

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david4dev
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July 11, 2011, 09:30:26 PM
 #7

Imagine I have a fatal, but treatable, illness. The treatment costs more than I could personally afford. Due to my financial situation I can't afford any health insurance.

In which, if any, of the following cases do I deserve to die:

  • 1) I was a hard working citizen but due to no fault of my own I lost my job and am currently looking for work but unable to find any.
  • 2) I am a child born into a poor family.
  • 3) I have never worked due to laziness.
  • 4) I did have a job but got fired for a valid reason. Due to my employment history, I am unable to find another job.
  • 5) I committed a criminal offence and was sent to prison. I am now out of prison and can't find work due to my criminal record.

Deserve to die? None.

I think you mean, which of the above justifies coercing others to help you and again the answer is "none".

I've edited the question to clarify this point.

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david4dev
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July 11, 2011, 09:33:07 PM
 #8

Sorry for offtopic but: Atlas? Is this you?

No.

It's strange you think so because I'm pretty sure Atlas is a capitalist libertarian and I'm a socialist libertarian.

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NghtRppr
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July 11, 2011, 09:52:47 PM
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I'm a socialist

Cool. Are you a voluntary socialist or a coercive socialist?
Zncon
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July 11, 2011, 10:05:50 PM
 #10

In cases 1 & 2 you should be helped.

For situations 3, 4, & 5 you should get no help, unless there was a provable reason why your future value to society would exceed the cost of your treatment.

Does that opinion make me a bad person?

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July 11, 2011, 10:10:52 PM
 #11

Imagine I have a fatal, but treatable, illness. The treatment costs more than I could personally afford. Due to my financial situation I can't afford any health insurance.

In which, if any, of the following cases do I deserve to die and in which to I deserve healthcare:

  • 1) I was a hard working citizen but due to no fault of my own I lost my job and am currently looking for work but unable to find any.
  • 2) I am a child born into a poor family.
  • 3) I have never worked due to laziness.
  • 4) I did have a job but got fired for a valid reason. Due to my employment history, I am unable to find another job.
  • 5) I committed a criminal offence and was sent to prison. I am now out of prison and can't find work due to my criminal record.

In no case do you deserve to die, and in no case are you entitled to healthcare, however much you deserve it.

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david4dev
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July 11, 2011, 10:13:16 PM
 #12

Imagine I have a fatal, but treatable, illness. The treatment costs more than I could personally afford. Due to my financial situation I can't afford any health insurance.

In which, if any, of the following cases do I deserve to die and in which to I deserve healthcare:

  • 1) I was a hard working citizen but due to no fault of my own I lost my job and am currently looking for work but unable to find any.
  • 2) I am a child born into a poor family.
  • 3) I have never worked due to laziness.
  • 4) I did have a job but got fired for a valid reason. Due to my employment history, I am unable to find another job.
  • 5) I committed a criminal offence and was sent to prison. I am now out of prison and can't find work due to my criminal record.

In no case do you deserve to die, and in no case are you entitled to healthcare, however much you deserve it.

So it is fine for me to die even if I don't deserve death?

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Zncon
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July 11, 2011, 10:16:42 PM
 #13

Quote
Many that live deserve death. And some die that deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then be not too eager to deal out death in the name of justice, fearing for your own safety. Even the wise cannot see all ends.
    J. R. R. Tolkien, The Lord Of the Rings, Book Four, Chapter One

myrkul
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July 11, 2011, 10:18:25 PM
 #14

Imagine I have a fatal, but treatable, illness. The treatment costs more than I could personally afford. Due to my financial situation I can't afford any health insurance.

In which, if any, of the following cases do I deserve to die and in which to I deserve healthcare:

  • 1) I was a hard working citizen but due to no fault of my own I lost my job and am currently looking for work but unable to find any.
  • 2) I am a child born into a poor family.
  • 3) I have never worked due to laziness.
  • 4) I did have a job but got fired for a valid reason. Due to my employment history, I am unable to find another job.
  • 5) I committed a criminal offence and was sent to prison. I am now out of prison and can't find work due to my criminal record.

In no case do you deserve to die, and in no case are you entitled to healthcare, however much you deserve it.

So it is fine for me to die even if I don't deserve death?

Never said it was fine. I said you can't pay for it out of my pocket if I don't want to help you. Find someone (or a group of them) who is willing to help, and let them pay. Don't force complete strangers to upon threat of violence or death.

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david4dev
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July 11, 2011, 10:20:30 PM
 #15

Imagine I have a fatal, but treatable, illness. The treatment costs more than I could personally afford. Due to my financial situation I can't afford any health insurance.

In which, if any, of the following cases do I deserve to die and in which to I deserve healthcare:

  • 1) I was a hard working citizen but due to no fault of my own I lost my job and am currently looking for work but unable to find any.
  • 2) I am a child born into a poor family.
  • 3) I have never worked due to laziness.
  • 4) I did have a job but got fired for a valid reason. Due to my employment history, I am unable to find another job.
  • 5) I committed a criminal offence and was sent to prison. I am now out of prison and can't find work due to my criminal record.

In no case do you deserve to die, and in no case are you entitled to healthcare, however much you deserve it.

So it is fine for me to die even if I don't deserve death?

Never said it was fine. I said you can't pay for it out of my pocket if I don't want to help you. Find someone (or a group of them) who is willing to help, and let them pay. Don't force complete strangers to upon threat of violence or death.

What if nobody is willing to help? Then is it ok for me to die? Also, I would never threaten violence or death because both are immoral.

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myrkul
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July 11, 2011, 10:26:35 PM
 #16

What if nobody is willing to help? Then is it ok for me to die? Also, I would never threaten violence or death because both are immoral.

Democracy in action. You just got voted off the island.

And if you would never threaten violence or death, how do you propose to 'make' people pay?

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david4dev
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July 11, 2011, 10:40:52 PM
 #17

What if nobody is willing to help? Then is it ok for me to die? Also, I would never threaten violence or death because both are immoral.

And if you would never threaten violence or death, how do you propose to 'make' people pay?

Taxes are generally deducted directly from the salary (PAYE) - people rarely have to 'pay'.

Otherwise it is the rule of law. If you don't pay taxes you could be fined and if you refuse to pay the fines then you can be arrested. When arrested, you may verbally protest but if you use physical violence against the police they can use minimal force in self defence and to apprehend you. If you run away, the police may catch you and use minimal force to apprehend you.

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July 11, 2011, 10:46:54 PM
 #18

I'm with the majority here - you don't deserve to die, but you aren't entitled to free healthcare.

Fact of life:  We all die.

To put involuntary hardship on some people in order to delay the death of others just seems wrong to me.
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July 11, 2011, 10:55:40 PM
 #19

What if nobody is willing to help? Then is it ok for me to die? Also, I would never threaten violence or death because both are immoral.
Life sucks, sometimes good people die. We can't save everyone, it's not possible.

Unfortunately, if we save one person who it is expensive to save, we have to let die a few people who it is cheaper to save.

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myrkul
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July 11, 2011, 10:57:25 PM
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Taxes are generally deducted directly from the salary (PAYE) - people rarely have to 'pay'.

That is like saying "The slaves didn't have to pay a thing. Their housing and food was provided for them" Money you never see is still stolen from you.

"Otherwise it is the rule of law. If you don't pay taxes you could be fined and if you refuse to pay the fines then you can be arrested. When arrested, you may verbally protest but if you use physical violence against the police they can use minimal force in self defence and to apprehend you. If you run away, the police may catch you and use minimal force to apprehend you. "

If you don't pay, we will make you pay more. If you don't pay more, we will kidnap you. If you resist coming along, we will beat you. if you run, we will chase you down and beat you.

How is that any different from threatening violence?

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