[BTC-TC] CryptX introduces the PETA-MINE - 18,000 CHIPS IN SEPTEMBER/UPDATE

[cryptx]

To summarize our offering (and hopefully remove all confusion and misinterpretation).

- CryptX will issue 100,000 PETA-MINE shares, each share represents 10GH/s
- For each share sold, CryptX will invest in an additional 2GH/s, up to $1.3M. We will be buying up to 16,666 shares ourselves and won't receive dividend payouts until public shareholders have earned back their initial investment of 0.65BTC/share.

[dvdrewritable]

To summarize our offering (and hopefully remove all confusion and misinterpretation).

- CryptX will issue 100,000 PETA-MINE shares, each share represents 10GH/s
- For each share sold, CryptX will invest in an additional 2GH/s, up to $1.3M. We will be buying up to 16,666 shares ourselves and won't receive dividend payouts until public shareholders have earned back their initial investment of 0.65BTC/share.

I understood that you were early investor of cointerra and as such should have access to favourable bulk pricing.

can you comment on this:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=67547.msg3040506#msg3040506

Excluding 20% additions Cognitive mining is claiming to be purchasing same hashrate as your IPO @ BTC64,500 ($7,656,000) less? - BTC52,833 if you count 16.6k shares brought up

[cryptx]

I understood that you were early investor of cointerra and as such should have access to favourable bulk pricing.

can you comment on this:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=67547.msg3040506#msg3040506

Excluding 20% additions Cognitive mining is claiming to be purchasing same hashrate as your IPO @ BTC64,500 ($7,656,000) less? - BTC52,833 if you count 16.6k shares brought up

As angel investors in CoinTerra we were not able to negotiate a deal of 1PH for BTC3000. I think there is something wrong regarding the numbers Cognitive mining is stating.

[Vedran Yoweri]

Trading is halted now for two days, what's the plan?
Clear and timely communications would help, whatever you decide.

[cryptx]

Trading is halted now for two days, what's the plan?
Clear and timely communications would help, whatever you decide.

Trading is not halted for PETA-MINE (it was halted just before we launched yesterday).

[001sonkit]

[Vedran Yoweri]

Trading is halted now for two days, what's the plan?
Clear and timely communications would help, whatever you decide.

Trading is not halted for PETA-MINE (it was halted just before we launched yesterday).

Maybe there's a correlation between the latest news on btct and the trading volume.

[cryptx]

Ok!  This is a great start, but we're a long ways away from removing all confusion.  Let's build on this great start with some question and answer time.  Let's start with:

- What does one peta-hash cost according to your contract with Cointerra?

We are under strict guidelines/agreement not to disclose pricing information regarding our bulk purchase of chips in public, this is also in the interest of the PETA-MINE project (as not to disclose sensitive information to competitors) and not to jeopardize our relationship with CoinTerra. But, as stated before, we are able to purchase chips at a lower rate then current retail prices.

[cryptx]

I understand.  That's a dealbreaker for me (well, one of the dealbreakers), but I still understand.

Maybe for the sake of other potential investorcustomers, and your IPO, you could clearly explain why the community should pay you more than the retail value of 500 Cointerra IV 2TH pre-built mining rigs (500rigs @ $14k usd each x 500 = 1 p/h for $7mil) when:

1 - You're not buying the rigs, you're buying the chips
2 - At, likely, a really good discount over retail chip buys, and an absurdly good discount over the rigs.

According to Cointerra 40 packs of 50x Goldstrike 500g/h chips would get you to 1 p/h at a RETAIL cost of $6mil.  But you're not paying retail:

Because of the scale of this project, we are able to get much better prices with manufacturers (chips / boards etc.) than retail customers...

Can see why you're answer: "We are under strict guidelines/agreement not to disclose pricing information.."  is not good enough for several reasons?

If you want to be another CloudHash you can't ask investors to buy the company for you then sell it back to them as if they were customers, and not the investors that bought you the entire show.

Further, how is it not outrageous that you're trying to get your investorcustomers to not only pay far more than retail, but you expand their loss by cutting off at least 35% (+more for maintenance) of their divs to buy you more mining power at a discount so you can... well who know what you'll do with it since you haven't shown us a business plan, and the only statement I've seen from PETA-MINE is "1 share = 10g/h."  Since it's not defined what you'll do with reinvestment money, and the amount of g/h each share is entitled to, you could do anything with that hash.  

Thanks for your questions, we appreciate you sharing your remarks and hope to provide some clear answers:

The pricing perception is probably caused by the recent BTC rally (and can works both ways). When we prepared our launch last week, BTC rate was hovering at $105, or $6,8M for 1PH. In addition, shareholders get 20% (2GH) extra per share until their initial investment of 0.65BTC is recovered -> 1 share is 12 GH/s (at the rate of $105 = 5.68$/GH or at todays rate of $125 = 6,75$/GH, which is still lower than retail prices).

Regarding reinvestment, we will continue to deploy additional systems at below market retail prices. The additional hashpower and mining revenue will be equally divided over all shares.

[cryptx]

UPDATE 31/08/2013

CryptX is pleased to announce the deployment of 20 TerraHash as early as end September (BitFury chips). The net mining revenue of this 20 TH/s will be divided over the shareholders until their total investment is recovered.

CryptX will also limit the sale of shares to a maximum of 10,000. This means that no more than 10,000 shares will be sold and mining revenue will be divided over those shares. Shares will be sold in batches of 2,000 shares each, starting at 0.65BTC. Price with each new batch will increase with 0.01BTC.

As stated in the initial shareholder agreement, for each share sold, 10 GH/s of hashpower, based on CoinTerra systems, will also be deployed in December, this equals to an additional 100 TerraHash by December for 10,000 shares.

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[damiano]

UPDATE 31/08/2013

CryptX is pleased to announce the deployment of 20 TerraHash as early as end September (BitFury chips). The net mining revenue of this 20 TH/s will be divided over the shareholders until their total investment is recovered.

CryptX will also limit the sale of shares to a maximum of 10,000. This means that no more than 10,000 shares will be sold and mining revenue will be divided over those shares. Shares will be sold in batches of 2,000 shares each, starting at 0.65BTC. Price with each new batch will increase with 0.01BTC.

As stated in the initial shareholder agreement, for each share sold, 10 GH/s of hashpower, based on CoinTerra systems, will also be deployed in December, this equals to an additional 100 TerraHash by December for 10,000 shares.

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I just creamed my pants

[Deprived]

UPDATE 31/08/2013

CryptX is pleased to announce the deployment of 20 TerraHash as early as end September (BitFury chips). The net mining revenue of this 20 TH/s will be divided over the shareholders until their total investment is recovered.

CryptX will also limit the sale of shares to a maximum of 10,000. This means that no more than 10,000 shares will be sold and mining revenue will be divided over those shares. Shares will be sold in batches of 2,000 shares each, starting at 0.65BTC. Price with each new batch will increase with 0.01BTC.

As stated in the initial shareholder agreement, for each share sold, 10 GH/s of hashpower, based on CoinTerra systems, will also be deployed in December, this equals to an additional 100 TerraHash by December for 10,000 shares.

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Your CONTRACT says :

"Shareholder Protection

The IPO will prove successful with the sale of at least 30,000 shares. If fewer than 30,000 shares sell within 30 days, CryptX will refund the entire IPO to shareholders."

Do you know what a CONTRACT is?

Here's a hint : it isn't something that one party can change at will in forum posts.

EDIT : and "as early as end September" means absolutely nothing.  A useful time-scale is "no later than X".  "as early as" solely means "not before" and covers any date on or after the stated time.  It's a weasel-word phrase that gives the impression of one thing whilst actually meaning the opposite.  Careless readers think it means deployment is promised/guaranteed for end of September - when all it actually promises is that it won't be before then.  Noone wants to know the earliest date deployment of something could be (as it's meaningless) - everyone wants to know the date it's guaranteed to be deployed by.

[eikzbtc]

This IPO is a joke , you can't change terms at will after issued shares.

[Lomus]

Attually they froze the last IPO whist they sorted out these terms, that's why it is an update.

[Deprived]

Let me explain what's happening to those too stupid to work it out for themselves (i.e. most of you).

BTC is rising vs USD.  If BTC rises vs USD by X% then the BTC paid for shares in this buy X% more hashes than they did when the IPO listed.  But the amount promised to investors isn't rising by X% - the gain gos straight to the issuer.  Yeah - you've been given 20% extra but that didn't even use up the hidden markup built into the IPO at the original price.

BTC rising vs USD is what makes most mining investments useless anyway.  When BTC rises, the price of hardware (in BTC) falls making the apparent profitabilty of mining rise.  That spurs more purchase of hardware - causing difficulty to rise.  Although USD-profit may slightly increase even afterwards this wipes out most of the benefit of the rate increase leaving you worse off than if you just held BTC during the rise.

Once you add in hidden levels of markup in the sales price plus a visible cut being taken via shares you end up lucky to make anything in USD terms and out of pocket in BTC terms.

What the issuer is doing is trying to bribe everyone into ignoring the IPO terms - by giving back a part of the increase in hashing power that your BTC could buy as a result of the exchange-rate change.  Which would leave them with not just the markup they'd originally planned to take - but also a bonus in keeping the extra USD generated by the exchange-rate move whilst guaranteeing that investors end up with a loss in BTC terms (i.e. worse off than if they just held their BTC).

What you need from an issuer if the exchange-rate is rising is a commitment that all BTC raised (or the same proportion as would have been the case if exchange-rate hadn't moved) will be used to purchase hashing power for investors.  But as they've never tried to be transparent in the first place there's little likelihood of it starting now.  And by the looks of it, little chance that they intend to honour the contract and return your funds if they fail to sell the 30k target stated in their contract.

Which kind of serves you all right for investing in such a pile of shite in the first place tbh.

[cryptx]

I'd like to confirm whether 20% of each share towards additional hashrate is still applicable

Instead of giving the 20% of additional hashrate in December we will deploy it end September.

[Lomus]

Can we get a date when the hashing will start?

[cryptx]

Can we get a date when the hashing will start?

We have secured a 20TH Bitfury chip deal with an ultimate arrival date of 20 September. We will drive the chips directly to the PCB manufacturer and take the assembled and tested boards back with us to the datacenter. We start immediate deployment after arrival.

[Lomus]

Can we get photos of your datacenter?
If not, why not (better be a good reason).

[cryptx]

Can we get photos of your datacenter?
If not, why not (better be a good reason).

The exact location of the datacenter can not be disclosed for security reasons. We will send pictures of the boards in the datacenter when deployed.