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Author Topic: How to actually start an anarchy?  (Read 4102 times)
Mike Christ
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September 15, 2013, 10:02:30 PM
Last edit: September 15, 2013, 10:25:32 PM by Mike Christ
 #41

Anarchy ≠ no rules
Anarchy = no ruling power / no hierarchy / no law (in the sense of "state-imposed" law).

Exactly; halfawake, the largest flaw in your argument is that anarchism necessitates a lack of rules, but it's actually government which leads to a lack of rules (see: North Korea.)  Anarchism means no rulers, which means everyone has rules; because the rulers aren't subject to rules, as they invent the rules, the whole point of anarchy is to stop those people from being above the law.

The other flaw is the private island thing; the island is still owned by government, you only rent the island.

I'm more than a little bit confused by your argument here.  North Korea, lack of rules?  No, North Korea is a totalitarian society, that means they have WAY, WAY too many rules.  I know I'm in the minority on these boards since I'm not a libertarian, but even I would prefer anarchy to that kind of society.  I don't live there though, thankfully.

In any case, I looked up anarchy and the definitions I found seem to back up my arguments.  But I do acknowledge that I was taking the argument to a bit of a logical extreme, I just think the cases I outlined there are the dangers of living in a place where anarchy is the system.  

Here's one of the definitions of anarchy, according to dictionary.reference.com: "A general lawlessness and disorder, esp when thought to result from an absence or failure of government."  Here's another: "confusion and disorder"  Of course, there's also this one, which backs up your logic: "a state of society without government or law."

I don't know why you're stuck on the idea of governments owning all the land in the world.  There are islands that are owned by private individuals that aren't part of any nation state.  Such a concept does exist.  It's just that they aren't that common, so most of them are probably already owned by some rich individual who you'd have to persuade to sell it to you if you wanted to start said anarchy.

No matter where you are in the world, you are subject to the larger nation's laws.  If the larger nation says, "get off this island, we're claiming it", you can never have enough guns to defend yourself against them.

Yes, the definitions take two sides; one implies political disorder and chaos, the other doesn't.  This is because people use the term anarchy in both ways; the first is to indicate a lack of politics, the second refers to the ideology.  The people who make definitions aren't infinitely wise, so it's up to everyone else to figure out what the word means, and there's some discrepancy as to what would occur in an anarchy, so the definitions must reflect that.

Anyways, what I mean by North Korea is, they don't have rules, because the ruler of North Korea can kill you for fun.  That is what I call complete disorder; when your ruler is so powerful, you can die for being accused of a crime you didn't do, that's a point in which there are no rules, since it's all up to the guy in charge whether he'll simply revoke that rule he created to do as he pleases, or not; after all, he's in charge of creating the rules.  Though you are correct to say that there is a maximum amount of law here, just as well, because very few individuals have maximum power, the citizens have no idea if their ruler will have a mood swing that day; that's truly a point where there are no rules, which cannot possibly occur even without government, as there would never be an allocation of power so great without it.  But I agree, I hope never to join them.

There is no real way to start an anarchy, just as you cannot start a religion named atheism.  It is the lack of rulers which indicate anarchy, just as it is the lack of God which indicates Atheism; it wasn't something that was created, it's something that exists only in the absence of something else.

Edit:  Check out this book for an excellent intro and argument for anarchy.

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September 15, 2013, 11:17:06 PM
 #42

hey mike if your beef is property taxes that can be worked out.
There was a vote in North Dakota on what to do with their oil profits.
They put ending property taxes up to vote. They voted no and decided to use the revenue for benefits, go figure.
Either way there are places such as parts of Tennessee where property taxes are so low that they're almost negligible.
And if you raise cattle in your land you would also not have to pay property taxes in any state, although I'm not sure.
You're just nit picking.
Mike Christ
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September 15, 2013, 11:24:06 PM
 #43

hey mike if your beef is property taxes that can be worked out.
There was a vote in North Dakota on what to do with their oil profits.
They put ending property taxes up to vote. They voted no and decided to use the revenue for benefits, go figure.
Either way there are places such as parts of Tennessee where property taxes are so low that they're almost negligible.
And if you raise cattle in your land you would also not have to pay property taxes in any state, although I'm not sure.
You're just nit picking.


I have beef with there existing rulers at all; the property taxes are just a (unrelated to this instance specifically) piece of that.  This does not negate what I said earlier:

No matter where you are in the world, you are subject to the larger nation's laws.  If the larger nation says, "get off this island, we're claiming it", you can never have enough guns to defend yourself against them.

Are you saying this doesn't occur?  Because I guarantee you it does; the last time any entity said "no" to a larger nation, that nation invaded and forced their hand; of course, I'm referring to Iraq.

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September 16, 2013, 07:50:40 PM
 #44

Excuse me for saying so but...

Want to start an Anarchy.  Reasonable thing to say if you crazier than dancing goat, don't want to outlive your hamster.

Plenty Anarchy to go 'round.  Just move to Somalia.  Or some other godforsaken hellhole where nobody has both will and ability to rule.

No rulers.  Means idiots with guns can just kick you out of house, shoot dog, rape wife, take food, kill only bull for meat, then burn your house down and laugh.  You can stop them for the price of bullet to your neck.  But no police, no rulers, no court to find them guilty.  Means no crime has been committed.

No rulers.  Means idiot with pair of pliers will go to cut down power lines for trade scrap copper for booze.  And another idiot with pair of rubber gloves will step over burnt twitching corpse and take pliers up pole again.  Nobody can get power.  If power available, nobody can pay for.  Go where might pay bill, some idiot with gun will just stop you take your money because you have it and he wants it.  Try send anyone bill for power, not work.  Mail not go through.  Can hire boy to run courier, but boy look like he have something to do, someone who pays him, will get robbed and shot.  Not long before money means nothing at all, no point even generating power. 

No police, but one in five work as security guard, for food only.  No other pay.  Until money, connections, whatever, to get food for security guards run out.  After that, gets really nasty.   Then you got bigger crooks, build organizations, lead many men with guns.  Most just by lying to them, some by feeding, some by letting rape all women in towns - have to destroy towns afterward, kill all the men, just the price of doing business. Otherwise someone will try for vengeance.

Want to start an anarchy.

You Americans got no fucking idea what anarchy is.
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September 16, 2013, 08:28:59 PM
 #45

Ah, that old "Somalia is hell on earth" (paraphrased) canard. It isn't.

Saying that you don't trust someone because of their behavior is completely valid.
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September 17, 2013, 05:42:50 PM
 #46

Starvation and water shortage is the key. Remove essential things that could keep us alive and there you go. In countries that are highly developed that is the best option. Civil disobedience, riots, millions on the street, fall of government and so on.
Or some scenario from a Zombie movie, like Walking Dead.
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September 18, 2013, 12:53:02 AM
 #47

People I cared about lived there. 

Is nothing to do with ducks.
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September 18, 2013, 05:13:57 AM
 #48

I got 5 ways...what did I miss?
http://caeconomics.wordpress.com/2013/08/24/5-routes-to-anarchy/

from the article:
1 seasteading
2 seasteading with docking
3 cryptoanarchy
4 space anarchy
5 subversive anarchy

and here's one not in the article, maybe the best choice yet: competitive and/or voluntary social contracting

You don't start an anarchy.  They naturally arise after revolution.  However, the huge productivity of relatively free people quickly creates a "power vacuum" that draws in those who make a living controlling others.

https://www.bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
While no idea is perfect, some ideas are useful.
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September 18, 2013, 05:27:27 AM
 #49

So, the members of the revolution specifically need to have a pact, where anyone who attempts to fill the power vacuum is immediately deported, with all necessary force, a plane, and a shove out with a parachute over the nearest tyranny, who will gladly accept another tyrant and not fire on your transponder. A variant of mutually assured destruction.

Saying that you don't trust someone because of their behavior is completely valid.
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