Bitcoin Forum
August 21, 2018, 08:31:39 PM *
News: Latest stable version of Bitcoin Core: 0.16.2  [Torrent].
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Pages: [1] 2 3 »  All
  Print  
Author Topic: Anybody in the US mine at home and call it a business?  (Read 943 times)
A.Delaney
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 238
Merit: 11


View Profile
January 27, 2018, 05:52:42 AM
 #1

 Can you just start a mining business? Call it Joes Mining or whatever. Write off the equipment and electric bills. Keep track of your monthly mining income. Pay your taxes and call it a year. Did you start an LLC , INC or Sole Proprietorship? Does the government consider mining an occupation? If you write off equipment and sell it later for new stuff. Then you pay income tax on the sale of that equipment also correct? I am thinking about doing this. I have a 3600sq ft building in my yard I could use. I would open up a mining business bank account to run everything through and get my accountant on speed dial. Is this feasible or am I getting in over my head?
1534883499
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1534883499

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1534883499
Reply with quote  #2

1534883499
Report to moderator
1534883499
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1534883499

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1534883499
Reply with quote  #2

1534883499
Report to moderator
1534883499
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1534883499

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1534883499
Reply with quote  #2

1534883499
Report to moderator
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1534883499
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1534883499

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1534883499
Reply with quote  #2

1534883499
Report to moderator
1534883499
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1534883499

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1534883499
Reply with quote  #2

1534883499
Report to moderator
1534883499
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1534883499

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1534883499
Reply with quote  #2

1534883499
Report to moderator
GbrilliantQ
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 194
Merit: 100

ƃqɹᴉllᴉɐuʇb


View Profile
January 27, 2018, 06:19:28 AM
 #2

If you do, don't tell the bank you are running a bitcoin mining business.  Call it a data center.  I've seen folks reporting back from 10 different banks all of denied a business account based on the business being a bitcoin mine.
Everything else is true. Write offs for internet usage, any upgrades for the power and infrastructure. 
Boojapho
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 15
Merit: 1


View Profile
January 27, 2018, 02:26:29 PM
Merited by frodocooper (1)
 #3

On my taxes I treat it as a business.

I take off the sq. ft. of the room i use for mining, all the equipment I purchase, and part of my electrical bill.   If you are taking out loans or going to have some other large liability, you'll want to create an LLC and keep your personal finances separate from your business finances (and keep good records).  This will protect your personal assets to an extent.    In my case, I have no liabilities, so the LLC doesn't help me much.  I treat it as a sole prop. 

My normal disclaimer on this is that the above is for informational purposes only.   You should consult a tax consultant or attorney if you want advice.
A.Delaney
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 238
Merit: 11


View Profile
January 27, 2018, 04:04:03 PM
 #4

On my taxes I treat it as a business.

I take off the sq. ft. of the room i use for mining, all the equipment I purchase, and part of my electrical bill.   If you are taking out loans or going to have some other large liability, you'll want to create an LLC and keep your personal finances separate from your business finances (and keep good records).  This will protect your personal assets to an extent.    In my case, I have no liabilities, so the LLC doesn't help me much.  I treat it as a sole prop. 

My normal disclaimer on this is that the above is for informational purposes only.   You should consult a tax consultant or attorney if you want advice.


So you created a Sole Proprietorship and have a business name then?
Yrth
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 95
Merit: 4


View Profile
January 27, 2018, 06:43:29 PM
 #5

Can you just start a mining business? Call it Joes Mining or whatever. Write off the equipment and electric bills. Keep track of your monthly mining income. Pay your taxes and call it a year. Did you start an LLC , INC or Sole Proprietorship? Does the government consider mining an occupation? If you write off equipment and sell it later for new stuff. Then you pay income tax on the sale of that equipment also correct? I am thinking about doing this. I have a 3600sq ft building in my yard I could use. I would open up a mining business bank account to run everything through and get my accountant on speed dial. Is this feasible or am I getting in over my head?
Yes. I would call it something innocuous without the mining in the title. Joe's Holdings or Joe's Solutions or something similar. Mine is an LLC. I was already self-employed, so I didn't look at the occupation aspect. As for the rest, I would talk with a CPA.
A.Delaney
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 238
Merit: 11


View Profile
January 27, 2018, 08:41:00 PM
 #6

Can you just start a mining business? Call it Joes Mining or whatever. Write off the equipment and electric bills. Keep track of your monthly mining income. Pay your taxes and call it a year. Did you start an LLC , INC or Sole Proprietorship? Does the government consider mining an occupation? If you write off equipment and sell it later for new stuff. Then you pay income tax on the sale of that equipment also correct? I am thinking about doing this. I have a 3600sq ft building in my yard I could use. I would open up a mining business bank account to run everything through and get my accountant on speed dial. Is this feasible or am I getting in over my head?
Yes. I would call it something innocuous without the mining in the title. Joe's Holdings or Joe's Solutions or something similar. Mine is an LLC. I was already self-employed, so I didn't look at the occupation aspect. As for the rest, I would talk with a CPA.

I also am already self employed. My current business though wouldn’t fit with mining. I’m mostly after writing of the electricity cost. If I’m going to be paying income taxes on this. I want to write off what I can legally. I’ll talk to my accountant. I just wanted to see if anyone else was doing it and maybe had encountered anything to be aware of that I should find out about.
DPoS2
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 188
Merit: 11


View Profile
January 27, 2018, 09:07:59 PM
 #7

Can you just start a mining business? Call it Joes Mining or whatever. Write off the equipment and electric bills. Keep track of your monthly mining income. Pay your taxes and call it a year. Did you start an LLC , INC or Sole Proprietorship? Does the government consider mining an occupation? If you write off equipment and sell it later for new stuff. Then you pay income tax on the sale of that equipment also correct? I am thinking about doing this. I have a 3600sq ft building in my yard I could use. I would open up a mining business bank account to run everything through and get my accountant on speed dial. Is this feasible or am I getting in over my head?
Yes. I would call it something innocuous without the mining in the title. Joe's Holdings or Joe's Solutions or something similar. Mine is an LLC. I was already self-employed, so I didn't look at the occupation aspect. As for the rest, I would talk with a CPA.

I also am already self employed. My current business though wouldn’t fit with mining. I’m mostly after writing of the electricity cost. If I’m going to be paying income taxes on this. I want to write off what I can legally. I’ll talk to my accountant. I just wanted to see if anyone else was doing it and maybe had encountered anything to be aware of that I should find out about.

Definitely fit it with your other business.. call the miners 'electric fidget spinners' if you have to or space heaters..   see which of your clients don't pay attention to their quotes  Grin   all for fun of course!

Learn the *Truth* about Big Company Mining Pools!!! Stop Giving Your Money Away!!!
Druiz287
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 59
Merit: 8


View Profile
January 27, 2018, 09:16:59 PM
 #8

Yes, I run a small personal training and nutrition consultancy.  And I also mine, report revenues paid, depreciate the machine's value, amortize the equipment loans, post capital losses when BTC declines, etc.  Its really exciting to have this kind of supplemental income!
A.Delaney
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 238
Merit: 11


View Profile
January 27, 2018, 11:25:57 PM
 #9

Yes, I run a small personal training and nutrition consultancy.  And I also mine, report revenues paid, depreciate the machine's value, amortize the equipment loans, post capital losses when BTC declines, etc.  Its really exciting to have this kind of supplemental income!

How do you claim mining equipment as a business purchase doing personal training? I own a machine shop. I do maintenance machining and welding. There’s no way I could get away with buying miners for my machining business.
lrowland21093
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 73
Merit: 6


View Profile
January 27, 2018, 11:46:22 PM
Merited by vapourminer (1)
 #10

You might be lucky for a few years but if you ever get audited then it sounds like it could be a big mess.  I think having a business on top of another occupation is one of the red flags that can trigger an IRS audit.  Of course, if you get an LLC that would probably help but that can be a pain to get an maintain.

There was an article I recently read about the top reasons that trigger an audit blurring the lines on business expenses was in the top reasons. 

Ah, finally found the original article...  

https://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/taxes/7-reasons-irs-audit/
A.Delaney
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 238
Merit: 11


View Profile
January 28, 2018, 01:29:43 AM
 #11

Ya I want it legit. I didn’t know if it could even be considered a business. I’ll call my accountant on Monday. I suppose it would be easier if I was a reseller of mining equipment.
rifleman74
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 322
Merit: 21

4 s9's 2 821's


View Profile
January 28, 2018, 02:07:43 AM
 #12

Ya I want it legit. I didn’t know if it could even be considered a business. I’ll call my accountant on Monday. I suppose it would be easier if I was a reseller of mining equipment.

It can be called a business easily.  Keep everything separate....
Druiz287
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 59
Merit: 8


View Profile
January 28, 2018, 02:53:14 AM
Merited by OgNasty (1), vapourminer (1), frodocooper (1)
 #13

Yes, I run a small personal training and nutrition consultancy.  And I also mine, report revenues paid, depreciate the machine's value, amortize the equipment loans, post capital losses when BTC declines, etc.  Its really exciting to have this kind of supplemental income!

How do you claim mining equipment as a business purchase doing personal training? I own a machine shop. I do maintenance machining and welding. There’s no way I could get away with buying miners for my machining business.

I hope that when you filed for articles of incorporation within your state, you claimed purpose was "Any and all lawful business" otherwise you would be severely limiting your options.  As long as you pay your taxes, it doesn't matter what business you own!  In America, you can use your business to do whatever you want!  Now if you seek to gain some kind of tax incentives for specific industries, that's different.  But there is no distinction between a company that provides a service or a company that provides goods, except for tax implications.  Which, if you're paying your taxes there is no problem. 

So why not use your company's money to buy a few S9's, list them as equipment under Long Term Assets, and use double declining balance amortization over a year (until next gen miners come out), sell them for cheap and post capital losses to pass through on future mining revenues?  Verizon is a wireless company, but that does not mean that they can't make money from investing in the stock market.  Because they do, all the time actually, and they pay taxes on all their capital appreciation and income revenues from that.
A.Delaney
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 238
Merit: 11


View Profile
January 28, 2018, 03:14:42 AM
 #14

Yes, I run a small personal training and nutrition consultancy.  And I also mine, report revenues paid, depreciate the machine's value, amortize the equipment loans, post capital losses when BTC declines, etc.  Its really exciting to have this kind of supplemental income!

How do you claim mining equipment as a business purchase doing personal training? I own a machine shop. I do maintenance machining and welding. There’s no way I could get away with buying miners for my machining business.

I hope that when you filed for articles of incorporation within your state, you claimed purpose was "Any and all lawful business" otherwise you would be severely limiting your options.  As long as you pay your taxes, it doesn't matter what business you own!  In America, you can use your business to do whatever you want!  Now if you seek to gain some kind of tax incentives for specific industries, that's different.  But there is no distinction between a company that provides a service or a company that provides goods, except for tax implications.  Which, if you're paying your taxes there is no problem.  

So why not use your company's money to buy a few S9's, list them as equipment under Long Term Assets, and use double declining balance amortization over a year (until next gen miners come out), sell them for cheap and post capital losses to pass through on future mining revenues?  Verizon is a wireless company, but that does not mean that they can't make money from investing in the stock market.  Because they do, all the time actually, and they pay taxes on all their capital appreciation and income revenues from that.

Ah now see. This is what I’m talking about right here ^^. Now I need to go check. I can’t remeber how I set it up.

Here we go.

The transaction of any or all lawful businesses for which corporations may be incorporated under the Illinois Business Corporation Act.

I’ll be taking that to my accountant.
Yrth
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 95
Merit: 4


View Profile
January 28, 2018, 11:41:49 PM
 #15

Yes, I run a small personal training and nutrition consultancy.  And I also mine, report revenues paid, depreciate the machine's value, amortize the equipment loans, post capital losses when BTC declines, etc.  Its really exciting to have this kind of supplemental income!

How do you claim mining equipment as a business purchase doing personal training? I own a machine shop. I do maintenance machining and welding. There’s no way I could get away with buying miners for my machining business.

I hope that when you filed for articles of incorporation within your state, you claimed purpose was "Any and all lawful business" otherwise you would be severely limiting your options.  As long as you pay your taxes, it doesn't matter what business you own!  In America, you can use your business to do whatever you want!  Now if you seek to gain some kind of tax incentives for specific industries, that's different.  But there is no distinction between a company that provides a service or a company that provides goods, except for tax implications.  Which, if you're paying your taxes there is no problem. 

So why not use your company's money to buy a few S9's, list them as equipment under Long Term Assets, and use double declining balance amortization over a year (until next gen miners come out), sell them for cheap and post capital losses to pass through on future mining revenues?  Verizon is a wireless company, but that does not mean that they can't make money from investing in the stock market.  Because they do, all the time actually, and they pay taxes on all their capital appreciation and income revenues from that.
I was thinking along the same lines. It shouldn't matter what you are currently in business for. If you want to add a new division to your current business, I can't see that it would matter to the IRS. I mean if Microsoft all of sudden started selling men's fashions and fishing tackle, the IRS wouldn't care. All they care about is your income, it proper reporting, and it's taxation.
eissug
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 66
Merit: 15


View Profile
January 29, 2018, 12:21:31 PM
 #16

 Huh Huh Huh

The IRS...

No one can give you an answer, not even a highly experienced tax attoruney, on how the IRS will rule.

Your best bet is to try to make a tiny bit (or a lot) more than you spend so that you might qualify as a hobby.  Just don't loose money.  After all, there are horse riding and Nascar teams that the IRS has determined are hobbies.  (But not a teenagers lawn mowing business)

If you have a profit motive, they will likely want you to be a business as long as you aren't loosing on paper.  If you loose money on paper they will likely want you to be a hobby.  You don't want to loose money and be called a hobby.

If you are a business the next thing you'll need to decide is if you are making passive income or if you owe self employment tax.

Each auditor can come up with a different determination on any combination of those possibilities.  Not loosing money will at least keep you from crying when they make it a hobby.

Being a landlord, managing or not, is an example of passive income.  Rental units take quite a bit of work between tenants.  A fourplex could easily take more effort to manage than 1000 amps of miners.  That would be my argument.  At least that way if the miners break or depreciate faster than they earn it could potentially shelter your other income.

In closing, after your audit if you ask "So, I did the same thing for the 4 years following this audit...do I need to refile my returns?"  They will say something like "No, another auditor might come to a different determination.".  Pretty confident, aren't they?

Nothing ever happened.   Shocked Grin
WhyFhy
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 95
Merit: 10


View Profile
January 30, 2018, 02:51:18 AM
 #17

Can you just start a mining business? Call it Joes Mining or whatever. Write off the equipment and electric bills. Keep track of your monthly mining income. Pay your taxes and call it a year. Did you start an LLC , INC or Sole Proprietorship? Does the government consider mining an occupation? If you write off equipment and sell it later for new stuff. Then you pay income tax on the sale of that equipment also correct? I am thinking about doing this. I have a 3600sq ft building in my yard I could use. I would open up a mining business bank account to run everything through and get my accountant on speed dial. Is this feasible or am I getting in over my head?
See K1 Tax info and just hire a crypto cpa.

coming soon
shellyfinest
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 91
Merit: 11


View Profile
January 31, 2018, 01:03:09 AM
Merited by vapourminer (1), frodocooper (1)
 #18

I started a business with mining in the name, to the points above I could have left "mining" out but I reference data mining / processing when speaking to it.  Yes some banks and insurance companies seem to balk as soon as you use the word "bitcoin"...

Being a newbie it might not let me post this link, but Turbotax has pulled together some of the IRS guidelines around bitcoin and crypto (just lookup "turbotax bitcoin guidelines" in a search engine ) if it doesn't show the link:

https://turbotax.intuit.com/tax-tips/tax-payments/tax-tips-for-bitcoin-and-virtual-currency/L1ZOgU00q

Other than that, I think buying mining equipment for a brand new business could be written off in the first year instead of depreciating, up to you, but I'd be a little careful about claiming power ... i'm colocating at a data center instead of running these at home , so I write off my monthly data center bills...  but consult your CPA or tax advisor about that, as for income an LLC is the way to go but pass through income that's "passive" could benifit from an S-corp to save self employment taxes ...

just a few thoughts
Rkoshay
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 94
Merit: 3


View Profile
January 31, 2018, 01:16:42 AM
 #19

Ya I want it legit. I didn’t know if it could even be considered a business. I’ll call my accountant on Monday. I suppose it would be easier if I was a reseller of mining equipment.

It can be called a business easily.  Keep everything separate....

If it is a business there's no reason it can't be called a business. Definitely check with a competent accountant but just because it's out of the mainstream doesn't mean it is disqualified.
A.Delaney
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 238
Merit: 11


View Profile
January 31, 2018, 04:32:22 AM
 #20

Well I called my accountant. They are going to research into it more before making a recommendation for me. I’m the first person around here to even ask about something like this. Small town USA. My current business is an S-Corp so that is what this would fall under. I really wanted that electricity write off.
Pages: [1] 2 3 »  All
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!