[HAVELOCK] Dealcoin Official Thread

[klee]

I plan to buy good luck in this! 

[worldbridger]

I plan to buy good luck in this! 

Thank you klee.
 

[Ninshatamoto]

I like this idea, and I am definitely going to invest some BTC into this, but I have a quick question.

I love Bitcoin, but I live in an area where face to face transactions simply aren't feasible, and I don't think they ever will be.

For example, Craigslist, which is a household name, and far more proliferant than Bitcoin is not even very active in my area.

My question is this - Does your proposal do anything to help me, and people like me in rural areas where face-to-face transactions between users may not be viable?

Hello Ninshatamoto, that's a good question. We'd love to help people in remote areas access BTC trading in an efficient manner. We understand that in rural areas, proximity between members can be an issue. Cash trades are not always an option. Not all trades on Dealcoin need to be made face-to-face; buyers and sellers can choose to send money via a wire transfer or any other form of payment. Although Dealcoin does not intervene in the wire transfer of the fiat currency, we intend to offer an BTC escrow service to provide additional security to our members. If you have further ideas on to how we can provide better services to rural areas, we welcome your input.

Great answer.  I'm sold.

[worldbridger]

Great answer.  I'm sold.

Thank you Ninshatamoto

[radiumsoup]

so.... if this is a beta test, where do I make bug reports?

[worldbridger]

so.... if this is a beta test, where do I make bug reports?

For all bug reports, please email support[at]dealco.in
Thanks

[TsuyokuNaritai]

I hardly find a valuation @ $150k 'aggressive' these days specially for digital enterprises an $150k valuation is not what investors would consider 'aggressive'if you also consider the fact that I am giving away 40% of the company in the first listing with a 1% guaranteed monthly dividend…

Is that guaranteed dividend also the maximum dividend? Apparently so from your prospectus:

Dividend Policy

DEALCO will pay a 1% fixed monthly dividend in accordance with the exchange rules and practices based on the 0.01 BTC listing price (0.0001 BTC/month/unit). The dividend will begin on October 31st, 2013 and continue for a period of two years.

Prior to the end of the two year period, Dealcoin will inform DEALCO unit holders of the new dividend policy to be defined at the time.

For a start-up bitcoin company that isn't a great best-case-scenario maximum return.

[thehun]

I hardly find a valuation @ $150k 'aggressive' these days specially for digital enterprises an $150k valuation is not what investors would consider 'aggressive'if you also consider the fact that I am giving away 40% of the company in the first listing with a 1% guaranteed monthly dividend…

Is that guaranteed dividend also the maximum dividend? Apparently so from your prospectus:

Dividend Policy

DEALCO will pay a 1% fixed monthly dividend in accordance with the exchange rules and practices based on the 0.01 BTC listing price (0.0001 BTC/month/unit). The dividend will begin on October 31st, 2013 and continue for a period of two years.

Prior to the end of the two year period, Dealcoin will inform DEALCO unit holders of the new dividend policy to be defined at the time.

For a start-up bitcoin company that isn't a great best-case-scenario maximum return.

Well you also have to factor in the potential appreciation of the stock

[TsuyokuNaritai]

For a start-up bitcoin company that isn't a great best-case-scenario maximum return.

Well you also have to factor in the potential appreciation of the stock

But why would the price appreciate much? Potential buyers will compare Dealcoin's return with those being returned by other securities.

I'm not sure why this 1% monthly maximum was set. Why couldn't dividends rise when profits do?

I wish Dealcoin the best of luck and hope it works out for them, but I don't see the risk/reward being worth it for an investor as the rules have been laid out.

[thehun]

For a start-up bitcoin company that isn't a great best-case-scenario maximum return.

Well you also have to factor in the potential appreciation of the stock

But why would the price appreciate much? Potential buyers will compare Dealcoin's return with those being returned by other securities.

I'm not sure why this 1% monthly maximum was set. Why couldn't dividends rise when profits do?

I wish Dealcoin the best of luck and hope it works out for them, but I don't see the risk/reward being worth it for an investor as the rules have been laid out.

Well a 12% annual return in dividends can be a lot or vey little, depending on which angle you a re looking at it from. For a mining stock, it is very poor as it is an extremely fast-moving and therefore often short-lived market. On the other hand, this can be seen as a long-time enterprise which doesn't depend at all on mining technologies, difficulty increases, etc.

Normally start-ups in the "real world" don't pay out any dividends at the beginning, focusing this way in growth rather than fast returns. It is now up to each investor to decide for himself if he/she prioritizes fast returns vs. long-term business.

P.S. I do agree that the door should be left open for possible future dividend increases in case the company has made enogh profits. However, this should be submitted to investor voting.

[Ninshatamoto]

For a start-up bitcoin company that isn't a great best-case-scenario maximum return.

Well you also have to factor in the potential appreciation of the stock

But why would the price appreciate much? Potential buyers will compare Dealcoin's return with those being returned by other securities.

I'm not sure why this 1% monthly maximum was set. Why couldn't dividends rise when profits do?

I wish Dealcoin the best of luck and hope it works out for them, but I don't see the risk/reward being worth it for an investor as the rules have been laid out.

Well a 12% annual return in dividends can be a lot or vey little, depending on which angle you a re looking at it from. For a mining stock, it is very poor as it is an extremely fast-moving and therefore often short-lived market. On the other hand, this can be seen as a long-time enterprise which doesn't depend at all on mining technologies, difficulty increases, etc.

Normally start-ups in the "real world" don't pay out any dividends at the beginning, focusing this way in growth rather than fast returns. It is now up to each investor to decide for himself if he/she prioritizes fast returns vs. long-term business.

P.S. I do agree that the door should be left open for possible future dividend increases in case the company has made enogh profits. However, this should be submitted to investor voting.

I think that a shift towards a more realistic (12%) ROI for investors will be a good sign that the Securities sector of Bitcoin has come to reality, and that the market is healthy.

[worldbridger]

Is that guaranteed dividend also the maximum dividend?
For a start-up bitcoin company that isn't a great best-case-scenario maximum return.

Hello TsuyokuNaritai

1% is the minimum monthly dividend guaranteed over the first 2 years as per our IPO prospectus. It is not the maximum.
As Dealcoin starts turning profits, we will review this dividend policy and we may increase it before the end of the 2 year period.

[worldbridger]

Well a 12% annual return in dividends can be a lot or vey little, depending on which angle you a re looking at it from. For a mining stock, it is very poor as it is an extremely fast-moving and therefore often short-lived market. On the other hand, this can be seen as a long-time enterprise which doesn't depend at all on mining technologies, difficulty increases, etc.

Normally start-ups in the "real world" don't pay out any dividends at the beginning, focusing this way in growth rather than fast returns. It is now up to each investor to decide for himself if he/she prioritizes fast returns vs. long-term business.

P.S. I do agree that the door should be left open for possible future dividend increases in case the company has made enogh profits. However, this should be submitted to investor voting.

Hi thehun, You're absolutely right. Regular start-ups don't usually pay out any dividends in the early days. DealCoin is focused on growing a long term business
We're starting with 1% monthly dividend and we're absolutely keeping the door open for possible dividend increases once the company makes sufficient profits.

[nubbins]

We perform due diligence on our listed companies which exceeds any other exchange and do not allow just anyone to list, which sets us apart.

The Labcoin passthru will be maintained and operated by Havelock Investments. Havelock Investments has not performed any due diligence on the underlying asset and individuals involved in managing Labcoin.

Just sayin'.

(Nitpicking aside, I do trust Havelock more than BTC-TC and BitFunder.)

This IPO sounds interesting, although regarding the service itself, I'm in the same boat as Ninshatamoto -- I live in a city of ~200k people, and there is exactly one local seller on localbitcoins.com.

[xchrisxsays]

For a start-up bitcoin company that isn't a great best-case-scenario maximum return.

Well you also have to factor in the potential appreciation of the stock

But why would the price appreciate much? Potential buyers will compare Dealcoin's return with those being returned by other securities.

I'm not sure why this 1% monthly maximum was set. Why couldn't dividends rise when profits do?

I wish Dealcoin the best of luck and hope it works out for them, but I don't see the risk/reward being worth it for an investor as the rules have been laid out.

Well a 12% annual return in dividends can be a lot or vey little, depending on which angle you a re looking at it from. For a mining stock, it is very poor as it is an extremely fast-moving and therefore often short-lived market. On the other hand, this can be seen as a long-time enterprise which doesn't depend at all on mining technologies, difficulty increases, etc.

Normally start-ups in the "real world" don't pay out any dividends at the beginning, focusing this way in growth rather than fast returns. It is now up to each investor to decide for himself if he/she prioritizes fast returns vs. long-term business.

P.S. I do agree that the door should be left open for possible future dividend increases in case the company has made enogh profits. However, this should be submitted to investor voting.

+1

The Bitcoin securities world is OBSESSED with dividends, it is really annoying. Good luck today!

[havelock]

We perform due diligence on our listed companies which exceeds any other exchange and do not allow just anyone to list, which sets us apart.

The Labcoin passthru will be maintained and operated by Havelock Investments. Havelock Investments has not performed any due diligence on the underlying asset and individuals involved in managing Labcoin.

Just sayin'.

(Nitpicking aside, I do trust Havelock more than BTC-TC and BitFunder.)

This IPO sounds interesting, although regarding the service itself, I'm in the same boat as Ninshatamoto -- I live in a city of ~200k people, and there is exactly one local seller on localbitcoins.com.

Hi Nubbins, I see what you're saying but to clarify, LABCO is passthru fund on Havelock (official listing is on BTC-TC).  So we perform the due diligence on such funds themselves (easy on the Labcoin PT since we manage it) and not on the underlying assets as we don't have the same access to the managers/owners that we would if listed through us.  The way we look at it, its when a major exchange lists an ETF or mutual fund.  They look at the fund's structure, management etc but don't necessarily dig into each underlying asset that the fund may invests in. 

That being said, it is something we have debated internally and reviewed periodically.  Do we want passthru funds on Havelock?  The added investing options and demand for the underlying assets from our users have so far made passthru funds worthwhile.  Cheers.

[KarmaShark]

+1

The Bitcoin securities world is OBSESSED with dividends, it is really annoying. Good luck today!

While this is true, the rationale behind it holds up. Investing into a new Bitcoin-specific company in 2013 demands the investor take on considerable risk that simply does not exist in the fiat investment world of Stocks. There are other risks you incur by owning fiat-denominated stocks that do not represent Crypto however that is for another discussion.


Dividends in the crypto world act as a mitigating factor to the investors risk profile. Couple this with the reality of several Bitcoin-specific companies launching weekly and soon daily, there is only so much liquid ฿ to soak up the tidal wave of assets coming to market. I expect new companies entering into the Crypto arena will have to consider this reality before finalizing their prospectus. The market demands something in return for the 'Wild West' environment involved so early on in Crypto.


Now...

BRING ON THE IPO BABY!!!!! WOOOOOOHOOOOO

[radiumsoup]

The Bitcoin securities world is OBSESSED with dividends, it is really annoying. Good luck today!

Why would that be a bad thing?

because dividends (especially as high as 75% of net profit, something we've somehow come to expect in Bitcoinlandia) mean the company isn't investing as much as it could for growth. While this may be great for short-term bursts for the shareholder, it's detrimental to the company, since growth is now limited to profits minus dividends.

While I certainly enjoy the high dividend yields currently available, the landscape MUST necessarily change to something more reasonable, or the companies throwing their returns back at investors will choke on their self-imposed slower pace of innovation and adaptation. Certainly 1% is a huge jump down, I think there's room for more than that in the current environment, to be frank, but a reasonable dividend amount is certainly closer to 1% than it is to 75%.

[klee]

Bought!! Let the party start 

[nubbins]

Hi Nubbins, I see what you're saying but to clarify, LABCO is passthru fund on Havelock (official listing is on BTC-TC).  So we perform the due diligence on such funds themselves (easy on the Labcoin PT since we manage it) and not on the underlying assets as we don't have the same access to the managers/owners that we would if listed through us.  The way we look at it, its when a major exchange lists an ETF or mutual fund.  They look at the fund's structure, management etc but don't necessarily dig into each underlying asset that the fund may invests in. 

That being said, it is something we have debated internally and reviewed periodically.  Do we want passthru funds on Havelock?  The added investing options and demand for the underlying assets from our users have so far made passthru funds worthwhile.  Cheers.

Noted and understood. Sorry for giving you guys a hard time about that in this and other threads; I agree that there are both pros and cons to hosting PTs. That said, I think you're providing a valuable service, and doing a great job.

And we're off to the races!