[BTC-TC] CIPHERMINE-PT - Industrial Mining & High Performance Computing

[FloatesMcgoates]

Buyers please be aware that .06 Btc/share at an exchange rate of 49.5 Litecoins: 1 Bitcoin you are looking at purchasing shares of ciphermine at 2.97 litecoins, which is 20.7% higher than the current highest bid on LTC-Global (https://www.litecoinglobal.com/security/CIPHERMINE) (2.46). Would have been cool if dex didnt try to jimmer potential investors but heh. In any case, use due diligence before investing.

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[yufu571]

Buyers please be aware that .06 Btc/share at an exchange rate of 49.5 Litecoins: 1 Bitcoin you are looking at purchasing shares of ciphermine at 2.97 litecoins, which is 20.7% higher than the current highest bid on LTC-Global (https://www.litecoinglobal.com/security/CIPHERMINE) (2.46). Would have been cool if dex didnt try to jimmer potential investors but heh. In any case, use due diligence before investing.

yep, the price of CIP at BTCT is too high. 0.05B is more reasonable.

[ThickAsThieves]

I'm going to chime in here, somewhat in the issuer's defense.


First, you do not know what he paid for his shares (I wouldn't be surprised if he's already taking a loss at .06).

Second, people vastly underestimate the costs and time involved in running a security, and running one properly.

Third, if you factor the overhead of time and expense (and LTC exchange rate risks in this case), then consider that the issuer is indeed doing this to turn a profit, it becomes clear that the public would have a tough time agreeing on and understanding what a fair price is.

Fourth, consider that the shares on LTCG may be mispriced themselves due to low volume or such.

Fifth, consider buying the shares on LTCG if you think they are a better price.

Sixth, no one has to buy shares they feel are overpiced, on any exchange.


Happy trading!

[superduh]

good points TAT
shares at at 3ltc on ltcglobal now with a 2000 bid at 2.75 - i think it's all "priced" accurately for time being

[dexX7]

The higher volume and depth on BTCT justifies a premium on it's own and a living example for this is ActiveMining on BitFunder vs. BTCT, but actually there is another reason to raise the price slightly above the trading price in Litecoin which might not be that obvious at first:

Let's reverse the scenario and assume I would choose a price significantly lower than the price on Litecoin Global. A profitable move for current holders (on LTCG) would be to sell some of their shares at the higher price and buy back-in with a discount on BTCT. With a higher price on another exchange the transfer out of BTCT also becomes more favorable. Of course it's not that static in reality, but I think it's obivous that the outcome in this scenario would be exactly the oppsite of what I like to induce.

The explicit announcement of the initial selling price as well as the leadtime is intended to achive something similar, but the other way around, as well as the limitation of share transfers in the first hours to prevent an oversaturation.

I'd happy about any discussion and further input is very welcome.

Cheers!

P.S.: Thanks TAT!

[dexX7]

Trading of CIPHERMINE-PT starts in approximately 10 minutes:

https://btct.co/security/CIPHERMINE-PT

[zefyr0s]

So am I correct in interpreting that posted Bids won't be put through until 6* hours? And only ASK orders will be filled?

e: or is that transfers between here and the other exchange for Cipher?

[medicine]

So am I correct in interpreting that posted Bids won't be put through until 6* hours? And only ASK orders will be filled?

e: or is that transfers between here and the other exchange for Cipher?

The pass through is live now.  If your bid matches an ask, your bid will be filled immediately.  The BTC TC home page reads: Queued share transfers will be processed in both ways manually 6 hours later.  So if you wish to transfer shares or PT shares between exchanges dexX7 will be manually processing them 6 hours later. 

[dexX7]

So am I correct in interpreting that posted Bids won't be put through until 6* hours? And only ASK orders will be filled?

e: or is that transfers between here and the other exchange for Cipher?

I will process transfers in approximately 6 hours, till than there are only 1000 shares to trade and it's out of my hand how things evolve.

Thanks to everyone, the last ask was filled at 16:01:37 UTC, which basically means the initial PT batch of 1000 shares was sold in less than two minutes.

[shadallion]

Great start!

[dexX7]

All share transfers in queue have been processed and the total number of outstanding shares is 3018 6086.

[dexX7]

Dear shareholders and potential shareholders,

it has been two days since CIPHERMINE-PT started on BTCT and I want to give you an overview of the past days and what is to expect in the nearer future. I'm not sure yet about the format, but I want to publish similar shareholder reports frequently.


Where we are now:

The "IPO" was a success and within less than 2 minutes all 1000 shares found a buyer. They say pictures are worth more than 1000 words, thus I'll leave you with some charts for an overview of recent trading activity:

LTC/USD, source: BTC-E via Cryptocoin Charts


BTC/USD, source: BTC-E via Cryptocoin Charts


BTC/LTC, source: BTC-E via Cryptocoin Charts


CIPHERMINE, source: Litecoin-Global


CIPHERMINE-PT, source: BTC Trading Corp.

Edit: There seems to be a minor displacement due to a different timezone used in NinjaTrader.


Dividend:

The first dividend was issued some minutes ago with an exchange rate of 0.02031 BTC/LTC. A fee of 5 % or 0.7738 LTC has been withheld. Actually it's a double dividend this time and I'm sure Kate will address this soon.

Dividend received on Litecoin-Global:


Dividend issued on BTC-TC:



Share transfers:

5144 shares were transferred in and 58 shares were transferred out. I strongly support arbitrage and I will try to process share transfers as fast as I can, but right now I'm doing this manually. In a shorter timeframe, but rather sooner than later, I'm looking forward to set up a share transfer bot to provide a way to exchange CIPHERMINE and CIPHERMINE-PT shares instantaneously and to build a constant bridge between the Bitcoin and Litecoin worlds. Though I'm not interested in delivering a sloppy solution and when I hand over the control over the transfers (and related accounts) to a bot, I want to be absolutely sure that everything behaves as expected and the risk of unwanted behaviour is minimized.


Volume and spread:

While the IPO went off very smooth and fast, I'm not satisfied with the trading volume and the gap between bids and asks is quite huge. This has been a problem on Litecoin Global also, though CIPHERMINE is one of the most traded securities over there. I hope we will gain more attention on BTCT in the future and offering an autonomous share transfer serivice might be a niche to achive this. Any suggestion and comment regarding this topic is very welcome.


Public Q&A:

It has been asked before and I discussed it with Kate:

We will do a public "question and answer" session soon, most likely on IRC. More details and a fixed date and time will be announced with a sufficient leadtime.


Cheers!

[dexX7]

Message from Kate to CIPHERMINE shareholders on Litecoin-Global:

Dividend error, moving rigs, bond and pass-thru

Dear Investors,

Dividend report

We have seen continued difficulty rises across the board recently, as well falling XPM revenues. This has been compounded by difficulties with the GPU rigs recently (see below). However, I rushed last night's dividend payment (I had been out all weekend and only returned Sunday evening) and as a result made mistakes. Profits for the period were €652, so the dividend payment should have been LTC 174, not LTC 135. This error was due to me putting in a USD/LTC rate in the EUR/LTC field.

The other obvious error was that the dividend was sent twice. I'm not sure how this happened since I remember it appearing to fail the first time. Again, I should have been more careful. This sort of error is normally unlikely to happen since I normally only transfer exactly the amount +0.1 LTC into CipherMine's LTC Global account, but being in a hurry I had sent 300 so I could run the calcs while waiting for the deposit to confirm, intending to withdraw the balance today.

The net result is that dividends have been overpaid by LTC 96. I cannot reclaim the overpayment nor do I feel it is fair to deduct it from next week's dividend so I will take this from my own cut of the CIPHERMINE dividends and put it down as a learning experience. This is my third crypto-cockup in a week (first selling 25 BTC of personally purchased CIPHERMINE.B1 at 0.3 BTC, second sending 3k ANC to a XPM address :/) and I'm hoping the "bad things come in threes" rule applies!

Moving and rig instability

Memset recently moved offices from Guildford to Dunsfold Aerodrome where we have lots of very cheap, renewable power. The new data centre is behind schedule so the rigs are not in there yet but we could not put them in even if we wanted to because our excessively paranoid SIRO wrote the security policies such that nothing combustible be allowed in it, including things like GPU rigs in wooden frames or plastic crates. Yes, I'm the SIRO - hoisted by my own petard! FYI, at the old offices we had an unused secure server room which is where the CipherMine gear was living; we had anticipated the new DC (which is in the ground floor of Memset's new building) being ready by the time we moved the offices (on the first floor).

That doesn't matter since we don't need much cooling just yet and the offices are massive so we have the gear safely stashed with good cooling and now mostly renewables-powered! :) In order to minimise downtime for the mining gear the office move the lads actually brought CipherMine's equipment to my home first, is only 1.5 miles away from the old offices, so I could look after it while the inevitably chaotic move happened. I didn't mention this before because I preferred not to advertise that I temporarily had tens of thousands of Euros worth of kit at my home!. ;) While I have good security measures they are vastly inferior to Memset's. Anyway, that bit of the downtime was minimal. Last week we then moved them to Dunsfold which only involved about an hour in total.

However, during the moves three of the rigs became unstable. In the end Ross and Simon completely dismantled the faulty ones and rebuilt them, and they now appear to be stable again. This has meant they were offline for a while, but it was a worthwhile investment of downtime. We are going to rebuild them again soon using aluminium frames using some bits from our friendly competitors BUY-A-HASH (extra-long PCIE risers) and S.OPENRIGS (they make adaptors to allow rigs to be built using aluminium tubing). This downtime did not help last week's numbers.

Partly as a result of this we've not had time to properly assess mtrlt's not-very-good GPU miner. Our cursory examinations led us to conclude that it was not worth switching all the GPU rigs over to it in a panic, but investigation continues. Unfortunately it may be completely useless. Jan should be deploying the next update of primecoind to the VM grid in the next couple of days too (HP10 I believe).

Bonds

Our pre-IPO investor has delivered the remaining 400 BTC for CIPHERMINE.B1 earlier than agreed, so we have collected all 1,000 BTC as planned. I spent most of it immediately at a price of around $120 (including some losses during conversion). Total proceeds were €89,900 (it is approximate since some of the spend was in BTC). The proceeds have been spent as follows:

2 x 400 GHs BitFuries (due October) @ €6,500 each -> €13,100 (CM-BF-03)
8 x 400 GHs HashFast BabyJets w MPP (20th-30th October) @ €4,120 each -> €33,550 (CM-HF-01, CM-HF-02)
4 x 1,200 GHs HashFast Sierras w MPP (late November) @ €10,490 each -> €41,950 (CM-HF-03)

Total: €88,600, reminder €1,300 (added to the hardware reinvestment fund).

Pass-thru

Finally, I'm delighted to announce that a pass-thru has been created and now approved on BTC Trading Co (CIPHERMINE-PT). If you should wish to move some of your LTC Global CIPHERMINE shares onto BTC Trading Co now you can. I'd like to take this opportunity to thank Dexx for his work, both to date and ongoing, in making this pass-thru for us.

Kate.

Cheers!


Edit:

I decided to forward the double dividend and I will do it in the future again, if something similar happens. CIPHERMINE-PT shareholders are equal to CIPHERMINE shareholders and I think it would be unfair to not do it or even to delay the dividend till someone posts an explanation. Any form of "gentlemans agreement" (like there is an accidently overpayment of 100x and shareholders decide to return a fraction) would have to be discussed and negotiated with each shareholder, but not with the operator. It's not my role to take a special position or to intervene here on my own. Please let me know, if you disagree. ;)

[dexX7]

Hi all, just wanted to share the latest announcement from KnCMiner:

KnCMiner chip news

All,

You have all been waiting for an update on our chips and we can today announce that the Fabrication process has finished and the wafers are on their way to the packing assembly house right now. They will be in the assembly house for a few days before they make their way to us in Sweden  and of course via the fastest method possible.

While it’s going to be a tight and we always knew it was. Time to market is everything in this business after all. We have also broken a few speed records in this business to bring a design to market in the fastest time possible.  But we are still on track to have Jupiter/Saturn shipping this month.

We will update this news site as often as we can with news. We will even have some videos this week from our Swedish assembly factory as some of our smaller parts begin to be assembled ready for full production the minute the chips arrive.

We would also like to take this opportunity to say that while we have remained as silent as possible on our simulations and only promised figures that we know we can meet. we will not down clock our chips to 400 we will release all our machines with the greatest hashing power we can. So yes the rumors are true Jupiter will be greater than 400 by a significant margin as a free gift from us to all our loyal customers. The first chips off of the production line we will run at full speed in our launch video so you can all see exactly how fast we can make Jupiter run.


Thanks

KnCMiner Team

Source: https://www.kncminer.com/news/news-36


Why am I posting this?

CipherMine has two earlier orders for KnCMiner Jupiter - to be more specific one made on 2013-07-24 and the other one ordered on 2013-08-04. The order confirmations can be found here: CM-KNC-01 + CM-KNC-02

Cheers!

[woodrake]

Hey folks,

I've just offered 500 CIPHERMINE-PT (some of my personal shares) at a knock-down price of 0.05 BTC/share. I personally remain convinced that CipherMine's share price will recover to its earlier levels within the next month or two as our armada of ASICs get rolled out so this is a good chance for you to get in on the action. I don't intend to do many offerings like this at below market rate, but I see it as in my interests as main shareholder to boost liquidity and make the pass-thru a success.

ION, we've had our refund for the Avalon chips (95% of 3,250 x 0.086 BTC, so ~$33k - currently) but I'm sitting on those funds for the moment (ie. it is safely stashed in our BitStamp account being controlled by Richard's rather successful bot). I'm trying to determine how close Alpha Tech are to their GPGPU and, if possible, want to get in with a chunky pre-order. My updated forecasts (using an economics-based model to predict difficulty) which I'll release soon suggest that the profitability of BTC mining will be good but short-lived, so I'm keen to ensure CipherMine has something solid to take up the slack.

If it does not look like Alpha Tech or another GPGPU is going to be ready before November I'll probably just invest the Avalon refund in more ASIC mining gear. After thorough investigation of Cointerra and discussions with several people, both employees and customers, I have decided they are legit and would be a good place to put an order. KNC are also looking good now with the above news. I shall keep you posted!

Kate.

[ThickAsThieves]

Hey folks,

I've just offered 500 CIPHERMINE-PT (some of my personal shares) at a knock-down price of 0.05 BTC/share. I personally remain convinced that CipherMine's share price will recover to its earlier levels within the next month or two as our armada of ASICs get rolled out so this is a good chance for you to get in on the action. I don't intend to do many offerings like this at below market rate, but I see it as in my interests as main shareholder to boost liquidity and make the pass-thru a success.

ION, we've had our refund for the Avalon chips but I'm sitting on those funds for the moment. I'm trying to determine how close Alpha Tech are to their GPGPU and, if possible, want to get in with a chunky pre-order. My updated forecasts (using an economics-based model to predict difficulty) which I'll release soon suggest that the profitability of BTC mining will be good but short-lived, so I'm keen to ensure CipherMine has something solid to take up the slack. Further, I'm not sure that just buying more BTC mining hardware is going to be the best plan. Indeed, that recent purchase may have been our last; the next purchases will probably be more GPU rigs which we can usefully apply in a number of ways (and then, hopefully, lots of scrypt GPGPUs).

Kate.

Y'know, I like Dexx7 from what I know of him, and I appreciate the professional manner in which you attempt to do business, Kate.... but this post is absurd.

If anyone really needs me to detail why, I will, but I really hope anyone paying attention can see through it.

[zefyr0s]

Kind of in agreement with TAT, maybe you could have cleared some of the positions trading near IPO so as not to remove their liquidity?

[dexX7]

I've just offered 500 CIPHERMINE-PT (some of my personal shares) at a knock-down price of 0.05 BTC/share. I personally remain convinced that CipherMine's share price will recover to its earlier levels within the next month or two as our armada of ASICs get rolled out so this is a good chance for you to get in on the action. I don't intend to do many offerings like this at below market rate, but I see it as in my interests as main shareholder to boost liquidity and make the pass-thru a success.

Hey Kate,

thanks for the update, your effort and openness.

I have no objection against selling shares per se - every shareholder shall trade shares freely as he wishes, though there is an issue in my opinion that might need clarification:

The business plan of CipherMine (available here) on page 15, section "6.4 IPO plan and share structure" states:

Having now had three rounds of funding we believe we should stop and consolidate. We do not therefore intend to make any additional share offerings until the current orders of equipment, including the planned BitFury hardware, has been delivered and is in operation. Further, we will not issue additional shares without a vote from the existing shareholders to approve it (see “Voting” below), and following discontent from some shareholders Kate will waive her right to vote in
favour of motions which will result in dilution in future.

I assume that offering shares in this context refers to issuing new shares by increasing the number of outstanding shares to more than 110000. Is that correct?

Furthermore it is written:

In order to maximise the accessibility of our shares we have divided the value of CryptoCoin into 110,000 shares. (...) The shares have been allocated as follows. Please note that many of us have sold or bought shares since this initial allocation so the numbers only represent the starting values. Kate, for example, has sold a few thousand shares with most of that money going back into the company in the form of gifted mining hardware.

Do you define "personal shares" as a (sub) set of those 58.2% listed in the table above?

My concern right now is that I see a conflict of interest here. As shareholder your goal might be to maximize (your own) profit (by selling shares or gaming the market in general), but that contradicts your position as founder of CipherMine whose goal should be to maximize profit of CipherMine's shareholders. This is especially an issue, if the amount of "personal shares" is far greater than half of CipherMine's float. The share structure is nothing new, but I think it's a good time to bring up this topic now, because you started to offer shares.

I feel like there is some need for clarification, so that shareholders of CIPHERMINE and thus CIPHERMINE-PT have a clear understanding on this topic. Would be great, if you could elaborate your role as major shareholder a bit.

Cheers!

[dexX7]

Weekly dividend

We received a total dividend of Ł 4.4169014 for 6125 CIPHERMINE shares. The dividend on BTCT will be initiated shortly with an exchange rate of 0.01968 BTC/LTC. A fee of 5 % or 0.22084507 LTC has been withheld.

Kate published the following statement to CIPHERMINE shareholders on Litecoin-Global:

Dividend

Dear All,

There has been good and bad news this week.

• BTC yields are down again, mainly due to difficulty but also because BTC Guild have had a particularly unlucky week it seems. ghash.io (BitFury's private pool) has been stealing the goodness. Still, on the plus side it does appear that they are delivering!
• XPM yields have had a small boost thanks to the deployment of primecoind-hp11, but total revenues are still well down in large part to XPM's price falling. On the plus side, the GPU miner looks unworkable so our CPU mining remains cost-effective. We did have some downtime on some of the grid which we are investigating so we will have a clearer picture of how much more effective HP11 is next week.
• I have an inside track on some of the AnonCoin activities and got word of the pump that happened this week well ahead of time. As a result I locked our miners to ANC and then sold out at the peak (>0.004 BTC/ANC). This has given us a significant boost to scrypt-based revenues. However, this was obviously a one-off and scrypt difficulties continue to generally rise. Our auto-switching should continue to keep us ahead of the curve though.
• Finally, this week the interest payment on CIPHERBOND (€340) kicks in. This does hit our dividends as expected.
  In summary, total revenues were €1,281 with power costs of €353 and depreciation of €317. Less the bond interest that comes to €273 profit, 50% of which is dividends so at €1.78/LTC that's 76.80 LTC. €452 has been added to the reinvestment fund.

One bit of good news is that we have stabilised the GPU mining rigs again. They have been rock-solid since we gave them a little TLC following the move.

The other bit of good news is that we have had our 95% refund on the Avalon chips. I have not decided where to spend those funds yet since I want to understand the state of Alpha Tech's GPGPU solution. I am also still enhancing the model/forecast to help decide whether buying more SHA256 ASIC hardware will likely be a good investment at this point, or whether we should go for more GPU/scrypt capabilities (I'm pretty sure we want to do at least some more GPU gear).

Kate.

[dexX7]

IMPORTANT NOTICE TO ALL CIPHERMINE-PT SHAREHOLDERS

Due to the closure of BTCT and Litecoin-Global I'm forced to close this pass-through. Please read the announcement made by burnside here.

I urge every shareholder to update their email address and public withdrawal address immediately.

Asset issuers receive a list of all email and public withdrawal addresses frequently and I will forward those to Kate after BTCT has closed.

All share transfers to Litecoin-Global will be processed as fast as possible and as long as both websites allow.

I will contact Kate now to see what is going to happen next.

More to be announced soon.