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Author Topic: [BTC-TC] CIPHERMINE-PT - Industrial Mining & High Performance Computing  (Read 43551 times)
iCEBREAKER
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September 23, 2013, 08:50:48 AM
 #41

Looking forward to seeing CIPHER trading on Bitfunder!   Wink

BF is very LTC friendly BTW.  Direct transfer in/out, no WX needed.

The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy.  David Chaum 1996
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Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016

Technology tends to move in the direction of making surveillance easier, and the ability of computers to track us doubles every eighteen months. - Phil Zimmerman 2013

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September 23, 2013, 10:41:13 AM
 #42

Notice from evilscoop on the Litecoin Forums:

Quote
We are discussing our best course of action in regards to the news from burnside.
And will post more as we sort through it...

Regards

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September 23, 2013, 12:57:49 PM
 #43

Notice from Kate on the Litecoin Forums:

Quote
Dear All,

This turn of events is unexpected and I shall not lie: almost certainly pretty bad for most of our shareholders.

As Giles said, we are looking at options as to how to proceed. The options under consideration are (in no particular order):

a) Move to a friedcat-style direct share ownership scheme
b) Migrate to a different exchange such as crypto-trade or Havelock
c) Create a new exchange (can't go into details right now but this is a possibility)
d) Forcibly buy back all shares (at a rate decided by the major shareholders, ie. me, Giles and a couple of others)

However, I must forewarn you that I do not think it is going to be practical to give all shareholders the same levels of attention in this transition. I am committed to looking after our major shareholders (eg. those with >500 or perhaps >1,000 share) but it may not be practical to switch to a friedcat-like system of direct share ownership with the large numbers of shareholders we have, nor to migrate all of you to a new exchange.

I therefore encourage those of you with a small number of shares to take what you can over the next week to get some value from the shares you have (ie. sell them) to avoid potentially being left with nothing at all should we end up in a situation where we cannot look after you all.

To be blunt, this experience has resulted in me getting royally screwed (I have significant holdings in addition to CipherMine on these exchanges). I am angry that this has come to pass and am tempted to take steps to close the door, taking CipherMine in-house with a very small number of investors. In practice, it would be simplest for us to walk away at this point (and with the exchange closing one could deem our contract as coming to a natural end) but I am going to take at least some steps to make good.

Anyway, the above is just me sharing some early, probably emotional, thoughts. I will be discussing the matter with our major investors (both in CIPHERMINE and CIPHERMINE.B1 the BTC bond) in due course. Unfortunately I have other pressing matters to attend to for the next 48 hours so please excuse a lack of comms in the mean time.

Kate.

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September 23, 2013, 01:00:18 PM
 #44

bitfunder is one we are looking at...

I know kate is busy, but I am around a fair bit on both forums Cheesy

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September 23, 2013, 01:02:08 PM
 #45

f**k, i have 76 CIPHERMINE shares,  kate ,you tell me to sell at 0.75. i have left nothing~~~~.
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September 23, 2013, 01:34:36 PM
 #46

bitfunder is one we are looking at...

I know kate is busy, but I am around a fair bit on both forums Cheesy

Thanks. Very appreciated!

I'm around for the next hours also. All potential transfers will be proceeded immediately. Trading is intended to be open till 2013-10-07 (the day BTCT halts trading), though I reserve to stop this pass-through earlier to convert all remaining shares to CIPHERMINE shares and sell them on the open market and distribute the proceeds as final dividend as described in the shareholder contract:

Quote
8. Dissolution

In the event that the operator chooses to or is forced to close this security for any reason, the
following methods will be used for dissolution:

1. A new operator may be chosen by the operator to take over this security. Shareholders of
CIPHERMINE-PT are eligible to approve/disapprove the new operator by a motion.

2. Shareholders of CIPHERMINE-PT have the right to exchange CIPHERMINE-PT shares for
CIPHERMINE shares on LTC-GLOBAL. If applicable, this right is granted for at least four weeks.

3. All remaining underlying shares of CIPHERMINE will be sold on LTC-GLOBAL and the
proceeds will be distributed to the remaining CIPHERMINE-PT shares as a final dividend. This
option is to be considered as unfavorable and only applicable, if the other two options yield no
sufficient result and no other solution has been determined by a consensus of the operator and
shareholders.

Should 8.3 be applied, a notification will be issued with a leadtime of at least 48 hours.

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September 23, 2013, 01:46:41 PM
 #47

I have some of your shares on btctc.  The problem is I do not trade (or have an account) on the LTC site.  I also, can't create an account -- because creating new users is disabled.  So, I can't transfer my shares.  Please keep this in mind as other users may be in the same situation.
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September 23, 2013, 02:02:06 PM
 #48

f**k, i have 76 CIPHERMINE shares,  kate ,you tell me to sell at 0.75. i have left nothing~~~~.
I assume your talking in LTC.  Just be patient, it's hard not to get emotional when news like this hits.  But the price is already climbing back over 1.5LTC.
If Kate sees the support her company is receiving I hope it will encourage her not to choose option "d"
In fact, maybe we need to create a nickname for "option d"
Any suggestions?
Peace

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September 23, 2013, 02:02:45 PM
 #49

I have some of your shares on btctc.  The problem is I do not trade (or have an account) on the LTC site.  I also, can't create an account -- because creating new users is disabled.  So, I can't transfer my shares.  Please keep this in mind as other users may be in the same situation.

Very good point.

I will try to mirror the bids on Litecoin Global with small orders on BTCT. If the order is filled, I'll set up a new one. Prices will be adjusted from time to time to reflect BTC/LTC exchange rate, selling price as well as the depth on LTCG. I will keep this up for the next hours. If you have any additional ideas, please don't hesitate.

Right now I see no other solution to solve this.

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September 23, 2013, 02:20:32 PM
 #50

f**k, i have 76 CIPHERMINE shares,  kate ,you tell me to sell at 0.75. i have left nothing~~~~.
I assume your talking in LTC.  Just be patient, it's hard not to get emotional when news like this hits.  But the price is already climbing back over 1.5LTC.
If Kate sees the support her company is receiving I hope it will encourage her not to choose option "d"
In fact, maybe we need to create a nickname for "option d"
Any suggestions?
Peace

okay, you are right.i am sorry for that.
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September 23, 2013, 02:47:57 PM
 #51

I have some of your shares on btctc.  The problem is I do not trade (or have an account) on the LTC site.  I also, can't create an account -- because creating new users is disabled.  So, I can't transfer my shares.  Please keep this in mind as other users may be in the same situation.

Very good point.

I will try to mirror the bids on Litecoin Global with small orders on BTCT. If the order is filled, I'll set up a new one. Prices will be adjusted from time to time to reflect BTC/LTC exchange rate, selling price as well as the depth on LTCG. I will keep this up for the next hours. If you have any additional ideas, please don't hesitate.

Right now I see no other solution to solve this.

I tried to sell, trading frozen?
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September 23, 2013, 02:49:17 PM
 #52

I have some of your shares on btctc.  The problem is I do not trade (or have an account) on the LTC site.  I also, can't create an account -- because creating new users is disabled.  So, I can't transfer my shares.  Please keep this in mind as other users may be in the same situation.

Very good point.

I will try to mirror the bids on Litecoin Global with small orders on BTCT. If the order is filled, I'll set up a new one. Prices will be adjusted from time to time to reflect BTC/LTC exchange rate, selling price as well as the depth on LTCG. I will keep this up for the next hours. If you have any additional ideas, please don't hesitate.

Right now I see no other solution to solve this.

I tried to sell, trading frozen?

You have to set up a public BTC address in your account first. It's a security measure, so issuers can identify shareholders when the site goes down. This requirement was added recently and was, in retrospect, a sign of things to come.
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September 23, 2013, 02:53:31 PM
 #53

I have some of your shares on btctc.  The problem is I do not trade (or have an account) on the LTC site.  I also, can't create an account -- because creating new users is disabled.  So, I can't transfer my shares.  Please keep this in mind as other users may be in the same situation.

Very good point.

I will try to mirror the bids on Litecoin Global with small orders on BTCT. If the order is filled, I'll set up a new one. Prices will be adjusted from time to time to reflect BTC/LTC exchange rate, selling price as well as the depth on LTCG. I will keep this up for the next hours. If you have any additional ideas, please don't hesitate.

Right now I see no other solution to solve this.

I tried to sell, trading frozen?

You have to set up a public BTC address in your account first. It's a security measure, so issuers can identify shareholders when the site goes down. This requirement was added recently and was, in retrospect, a sign of things to come.

Ah, thanks.  Horrible situation.  Lost about 50% value of investment.  Luckily, didn't have too much invested.  This is going to really hurt for some folks...
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September 23, 2013, 04:37:40 PM
 #54

kate-
telling people to sell is just wrong. if you plan on closing everything down and leaving shareholders with NOTHING then wtf.
sell to WHO, you? who the hell would want to  this stock that will be worth exactly 0 in a month.
your response seems to be filled with anger and hate.
keep in mind that anything short of either a fair buyback at 4ltc (your last round) is stealing.
i advice you to CALM down for a few days and then proceed to do something that is legal and fair.

ok
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September 23, 2013, 05:10:49 PM
 #55

I was shocked, too. But I'm sure it was a very emotional response and I also know team CipherMine tries it's best at the moment to evaluate different options to come up with something fitting.

If your interested, I suggest to follow the thread on the Litecoin Forums:

https://forum.litecoin.net/index.php/topic,4582.465.html

But to be clear: I'll forward important inforamation as soon as possible anyway. Smiley

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September 23, 2013, 05:30:11 PM
 #56

I was shocked, too. But I'm sure it was a very emotional response and I also know team CipherMine tries it's best at the moment to evaluate different options to come up with something fitting.

If your interested, I suggest to follow the thread on the Litecoin Forums:

https://forum.litecoin.net/index.php/topic,4582.465.html

But to be clear: I'll forward important inforamation as soon as possible anyway. Smiley

ya, looks like more debate going on there.

ok
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September 23, 2013, 07:54:24 PM
 #57

Notice from Kate on the Litecoin Forums:

Quote
Dear All,

This turn of events is unexpected and I shall not lie: almost certainly pretty bad for most of our shareholders.

As Giles said, we are looking at options as to how to proceed. The options under consideration are (in no particular order):

a) Move to a friedcat-style direct share ownership scheme
b) Migrate to a different exchange such as crypto-trade or Havelock
c) Create a new exchange (can't go into details right now but this is a possibility)
d) Forcibly buy back all shares (at a rate decided by the major shareholders, ie. me, Giles and a couple of others)

However, I must forewarn you that I do not think it is going to be practical to give all shareholders the same levels of attention in this transition. I am committed to looking after our major shareholders (eg. those with >500 or perhaps >1,000 share) but it may not be practical to switch to a friedcat-like system of direct share ownership with the large numbers of shareholders we have, nor to migrate all of you to a new exchange.

I therefore encourage those of you with a small number of shares to take what you can over the next week to get some value from the shares you have (ie. sell them) to avoid potentially being left with nothing at all should we end up in a situation where we cannot look after you all.

To be blunt, this experience has resulted in me getting royally screwed (I have significant holdings in addition to CipherMine on these exchanges). I am angry that this has come to pass and am tempted to take steps to close the door, taking CipherMine in-house with a very small number of investors. In practice, it would be simplest for us to walk away at this point (and with the exchange closing one could deem our contract as coming to a natural end) but I am going to take at least some steps to make good.

Anyway, the above is just me sharing some early, probably emotional, thoughts. I will be discussing the matter with our major investors (both in CIPHERMINE and CIPHERMINE.B1 the BTC bond) in due course. Unfortunately I have other pressing matters to attend to for the next 48 hours so please excuse a lack of comms in the mean time.

Kate.

What is so difficult about relisting on Bitfunder, Havelock, and/or MPEX?

Kate needs to separate her hard feelings about failed investment in LTCGLOBAL from CIPHER, a perfectly viable ongoing enterprise.

Especially troubling is the declaration of "commitment to major shareholders" immediately followed by a 100% variance on exactly what that means.

500 shares?  1000 shares?  That's a very large range, and a moving target for anyone wishing to accumulate shares sufficient for being considered important.

Quote
This site is currently in beta. Nothing is verified. Everything is virtual.

^^^Appears at the top of EVERY SINGE PAGE on BTCT and LTCG.^^^

Expecting any different outcome from the one just achieved was naive in the extreme.

I accept responsibility for risking my LTC on a self-declared fake/toy/joke/experiment exchange, and Kate needs to accept responsibility for listing our security there.

It was a conflict of interest for the asset issuer to also be a large shareholder in that asset's exchange.

That conflict of interest is now raising it's bloody head.

With some script magic, Bitfunder should be able to pay out dividends in Litecoin.  It has built-in LTC send/store/receive capability.

The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy.  David Chaum 1996
"Monero" : { Private - Auditable - 100% Fungible - Flexible Blocksize - Wild & Free® - Intro - Core GUI - Podcats - Roadmap - Dice - Blackjack - Github - Android }
MoneroForCash.com  |  Buy and sell XMR near you  |  Easymonero.com  |  Bitsquare.io - Decentralized XMR Exchange  |  Buy XMR with fiat
Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect.  Adam Back 2014

Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016
Blocks must necessarily be full for the Bitcoin network to be able to pay for its own security.  davout 2015
Blocksize is an intentionally limited resource, like the 21e6 BTC limit.  Changing it degrades the surrounding economics, creating negative incentives.  Jeff Garzik 2013


The raison d'être of bitcoin is trustlessness. - Eric Lombrozo 2015
It is an Engineering Requirement that Bitcoin be “Above the Law”  Paul Sztorc 2015
Resiliency, not efficiency, is the paramount goal of decentralized, non-state sanctioned currency -Jon Matonis 2015

Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016

Technology tends to move in the direction of making surveillance easier, and the ability of computers to track us doubles every eighteen months. - Phil Zimmerman 2013

The only way to make software secure, reliable, and fast is to make it small. Fight Features. - Andy Tanenbaum 2004
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September 23, 2013, 09:06:06 PM
 #58

Looks like everything has calmed down a bit.

Message from Kate to all shareholders, posted on Litecoin Global:

Quote
Dear Shareholders,

Obviously today's news that LTC Global is closing down by the end of the month is very distressing.

We have not yet decided exactly what to do going forwards but are exploring a number of options, the most obvious of which is to simply bring all shares in-house and run them direct so you all continue to get dividend payments but to the public payment address you have set here (which does mean you must set it if you have not!).

If we were to do that it would prevent automated trading of the shares, and at this time we don't have the resources to administer trades manually. The security would therefore become illiquid for a time. We would likely therefore wish to move the security to a new exchange, and indeed we are exploring some options there too.

Another option is a forced buy-back of shares at the weighted average of the original issue prices (i-e. 1.62 LTC/share), but we don't have the necessary funds to do that in reality. Further, what funds we do have (mostly from the Avalon refund) I am more inclined to offer as a discounted, or possibly forced, buy-back of CIPHERMINE.B1 (the bond issued on BTC TC). At least 50% of the bondholders are investment funds who will likely want their money ASAP; I can't see how their funds can survive this unfortunately.

In the mean time please be assured that we are going to try to look after you, our shareholders, and that does include those of you with small stakes (my somewhat ill-considered forum post earlier should largely be ignored). CipherMine remains a viable business and will continue regardless.

I will be in touch in the couple of days with a clear plan. In the mean time, don't panic!

Kate.

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September 25, 2013, 06:18:35 PM
 #59

IMPORTANT NOTICE TO ALL CIPHERMINE-PT SHAREHOLDERS AND USERS OF BTCT AND LITECOIN GLOBAL IN GENERAL

Please set your public withdrawal address on BTCT and Litecoin-Global.

In case you didn't do it already, please head over to your account settings on BTCT and Litecoin Global and go to "Settings". There is a field with the label "Public Withdrawal Address". It is extremely important that you enter a Bitcoin and Litecoin address that you own and control. You may need to sign a message with that address and a shared wallet address (e.g. Bitstamp deposit address) is not sufficient. Please see this picture for instructions:




Why is this important?

Asset issuers receive a list containing all public witthdrawal addresses as well as the amount of shares you hold frequently. After the shutdown of BTCT and Litecoin Global this address will be used to identify you as shareholder and to map the amount of CIPHERMINE/CIPHERMINE-PT shares you hold. If you miss this step, you run into the risk that CipherMine is unable to map your shares to you. You might need to proof that you are the owner of this address.


How can you be sure that you are able to proof the ownership of your withdrawal address?

Ownership of an address can be shown by signing a message with your Bitcoin/Litecoin address. Only the one with control over the private key (or wallet) is able to generate a valid signature for this address. With the stock Bitcoin QT client, you can sign a message by clicking on "Receive" and then right click on the address you'd like to use to sign a message with. If you want to try it yourself, please choose "Sign Message" as shown in the following picture:




Please make sure that you chose the correct address which you'd like to sign a message with (3). After entering a message (4), you can click on "Sign Message" (5) and a signature for this specific address and exactly this message you have entered will be generated.




You now have the following data:

Code:
Address: 13AK4qMJh1fon7e2SpJ3bmm6mDUaq2kqQU
Message: Hello, this is dexX7 and I'm the owner of the BTCT address "13AK4qMJh1fon7e2SpJ3bmm6mDUaq2kqQU". I will use this address to proof ownership and claim my CIPHERMINE shares.
Signature: H7K+KXAwzpxy1thK1bi9uL7KySNIngH7jT6OnxZx4quBA65JKiOuvDqQLf2ODEwoqrOKgCYzFxo5Ps7CelBaKf0=


A signature can be verified in the section "Verify Message" in the Bitcoin QT client. You can also head over to http://brainwallet.org/#verify and verify a signature. The following picture shows this process for http://brainwallet.org/#verify:




TL;TR: please make sure you set your public withdrawal address on BTCT and Litecoin Global and you are in control of this address. Team CipherMine and other asset issuers on BTCT and Litecoin-Global may ask you to provide proof of ownership of this address by signing a message. This is necessary to identify you as shareholder after BTCT and Litecoin Global have been shut down. Please don't hesitate to ask, if you need assistance in this process.

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September 28, 2013, 10:35:05 PM
 #60

According to Kate we should receive an update on CipherMine's future with 24 hours.

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