[Apr 2024] Fees are HIGH, wait for opportunity to Consolidate your small inputs

[LoyceV]

Spammers literally pay 4 million dollars per hour now to create meaningless Bitcoin dust.

Hopefully, "a fool and his money are soon parted".

At $100 million per day, I don't think it's a fool. The fools are the people who fall for the Ordinal scam, but since this has been going on for a year, it must be big business. I even heard it on the radio recently, they were explaining that every first satoshi in every block is "special", and the first satoshi after the halving is even more "special". Whoever made this up to get rich is a genius. Evil, but a genius!

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[Synchronice]

These transaction fees give me an existential crisis, what a crazy world we live in.

This is the halving block: https://mempool.space/block/0000000000000000000320283a032748cef8227873ff4872689bf23f1cda83a5
Short info: 1 input, 1 output, paid fee - 6.7 BTC ($429,818), overpaid 18024x. Guess who paid this crazy fee? Ordinals guy. Every fee that ViaBTC lost because of their free transaction accelerator service, now is back in one block They collected ‎37.626 BTC fees.

No one is going to remove ordinals, they are making money from it. Bitcoin failed as a P2P transaction method but it successfully send JPEG images. I am out of explanation, I don't understand why it worth for every ordinals users to pay such a ridiculously high transaction fees, is there demand really that high on ordinals? Once fees go down (if they'll ever), I'll try and start inscribing ordinals.

Does anyone know why were ordinals trying to get their inscription in halving block? Does anyone cares about that too? Holy moly

At $100 million per day, I don't think it's a fool. The fools are the people who fall for the Ordinal scam, but since this has been going on for a year, it must be big business. I even heard it on the radio recently, they were explaining that every first satoshi in every block is "special", and the first satoshi after the halving is even more "special". Whoever made this up to get rich is a genius. Evil, but a genius!

People don't know how to download Electrum wallet, how to create a wallet, how to save seeds, how to send coins, how to set correct fee and so on. Now I am confused, how is there such a high demand on ordinals? If they don't know such a basic things, how are these people able to inscribe ordinals and then buy it on auction. I think this process should be very confusing for many but it's the opposite.
@BlackHatCoiner There can't be so many fools and fools don't have millions of dollars in their pockets. I have never met a fool that is willing to give me a dollar in nothing. Actually, rich guys are too thrifty. I think that someone has to be too fool to pay a single cent in ordinals but at the same time, such a fool shouldn't really be able to buy ordinals because it might be too complicated process for them. I am really confused.

[BlackHatCoiner]

At $100 million per day, I don't think it's a fool.

"You can fool all the people some of the time and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time".

I am out of explanation, I don't understand why it worth for every ordinals users to pay such a ridiculously high transaction fees, is there demand really that high on ordinals?

You mean you can't tell?    Big yes.

Does anyone know why were ordinals trying to get their inscription in halving block? Does anyone cares about that too? Holy moly

Because, "halving sats" are more precious than "ordinary sats". Just as the very first Ordinal sat is deemed as rare, I think. It doesn't make any sense, but often times, people don't use their reasoning when buying and selling stuff. Probably why billions of dollars are gambled every month, or coins are thrown on fountains as wishes.

There can't be so many fools and fools don't have millions of dollars in their pockets. I have never met a fool that is willing to give me a dollar in nothing.

The altcoins market cap is about a trillion dollars. That's what you're looking for.

[Pmalek]

That's it. I declare Bitcoin broken at the moment

I have never been more pro censorship or some type of restriction than right now, and at this point, I am not even ashamed to admit it. A solution has to be found or else the big-blocker monkey men have won. It's going to become impossible to recommend to new people to use Bitcoin and explain the benefits of it. When the obvious question appears, how much does it cost to send a bitcoin transaction, you can throw all your decentralization and control of your money arguments out of the window.

[cryptosize]

Spammers literally pay 4 million dollars per hour now to create meaningless Bitcoin dust.

Hopefully, "a fool and his money are soon parted".

At $100 million per day, I don't think it's a fool. The fools are the people who fall for the Ordinal scam, but since this has been going on for a year, it must be big business. I even heard it on the radio recently, they were explaining that every first satoshi in every block is "special", and the first satoshi after the halving is even more "special". Whoever made this up to get rich is a genius. Evil, but a genius!

Reminds me of modern video game loot crap in RPGs (this loot is rare/purple, this one is common etc.)

Gamification has invaded BTC...

[RickDeckard]

That's it. I declare Bitcoin broken at the moment

I have never been more pro censorship or some type of restriction than right now, and at this point, I am not even ashamed to admit it. A solution has to be found or else the big-blocker monkey men have won. It's going to become impossible to recommend to new people to use Bitcoin and explain the benefits of it. When the obvious question appears, how much does it cost to send a bitcoin transaction, you can throw all your decentralization and control of your money arguments out of the window.

If bitcoin will ever be intended to use on a global scale I have a hard time seeing how can Ordinals (and Runes now) contribute for the adoption. We are seeing unreal amount of transaction fees ever since the halving and this will likely continue for a while considering the novelty of Runes (and the persistent presence of Ordinals I guess). How can we convince people to use the network when they'll have to pay 12,042 sats/vB for their transactions? I wonder how satoshi would feel now seeing what is currently going on with the blockchain.

Perhaps I'm short sighted - I reckon I haven't read fully what Ordinals propose to do (and Rune) other than my suspicions that they want to bandwagon on Bitcoin ecosystem and try to create value in fungible tokens that they hope will get valuable over time - but I can't see how this implementation actually helps the network nor improves it.

Yesterday when I was watching the halving I though that it was expected to be high fees near the block #840.000 since some people would pay a premium to have their transactions on that block, but I never imagined that the fees alone would reach ~ 37.6 bitcoin[1].
[1]https://mempool.space/block/0000000000000000000320283a032748cef8227873ff4872689bf23f1cda83a5

[LoyceV]

That's it. I declare Bitcoin broken at the moment

I have never been more pro censorship or some type of restriction than right now, and at this point, I am not even ashamed to admit it. A solution has to be found or else the big-blocker monkey men have won. It's going to become impossible to recommend to new people to use Bitcoin and explain the benefits of it. When the obvious question appears, how much does it cost to send a bitcoin transaction, you can throw all your decentralization and control of your money arguments out of the window.

Bigger blocks aren't going to resolve this. Spammers (or maybe just 1 spammer) can pay 1000+ sats/vbyte for 1.5 MB blocks. Let's assume blocks would be unlimited: for the same price, he could pay 1 sat/vbyte and create 1.5 GB blocks! That would be good for the rest of us, as we could make transactions again, but it would add 80 TB per year to the blockchain. It would also mean downloading and verifying 1.5 GB every 10 minutes, and it would mean chainstate will quickly grow to hundreds of GB (which requires that much RAM to run Bitcoin Core). It would destroy decentralization as we know it, I'd be forced to give up running a full node, and even many of the Electrum servers wouldn't be able to keep up.
As much as I hate it, we can't get rid of spam by giving them more block space.

Yesterday when I was watching the halving I though that it was expected to be high fees near the block #840.000 since some people would pay a premium to have their transactions on that block, but I never imagined that the fees alone would reach ~ 37.6 bitcoin[1].
[1]https://mempool.space/block/0000000000000000000320283a032748cef8227873ff4872689bf23f1cda83a5

CRAZY! I have no other word for it.

[NapHappy]

The days after the halving tomorrow and before the difficulty adjustment in about 5 days will be brutal for fees with the Runes added in.

"Brutal" is a subjective term, I just see things getting even worse for a while due to the above.

Still, I'll bet that the average fees for the 2 weeks post halving will be 50% higher than the average fees for the 2 weeks pre-halving.

I think I should have stood my ground with "brutal".

[stompix]

That's it. I declare Bitcoin broken at the moment

Now this a statement that surprised me!

So, this was the record for the day?
https://mempool.space/tx/347fd0295bdd87b49c30b40b2f7877779321e9464858c05e55352e0d7f145cbc

Fee   15,587,700 sat
$9,953
Fee rate   70,057 sat/vB

Really curious, what's this?
https://ordinals.hiro.so/inscription/347fd0295bdd87b49c30b40b2f7877779321e9464858c05e55352e0d7f145cbci0
Ordi.io is full of errors right now

Bigger blocks aren't going to resolve this. Spammers (or maybe just 1 spammer) can pay 1000+ sats/vbyte for 1.5 MB blocks. Let's assume blocks would be unlimited: for the same price, he could pay 1 sat/vbyte and create 1.5 GB blocks! That would be good for the rest of us, as we could make transactions again, but it would add 80 TB per year to the blockchain.

They can't do this all day long.
With 10 MB blocks it will keep them at 100sat/vb, 10MB blocks are 525GB a year, 20 means 50sat/vb 1TB a year.
You don't need to keep them away completely you need to make them unable to raise the fees over 50sat/vb.

[JeromeTash]

My logic is that
1. We will see a drop in the hash rate once the halving occurs due to mining being unprofitable for inefficient miners, this will lead to longer block times until the difficulty is adjusted 4 days later. Longer block times means people paying higher fees to get into the next block.

Not when the Bitcoin fees are insanely high at the moment. The happiest people are the miners and from what I have seen, the mining rewards have been way higher so far as compared to a few days before the halving. So far, despite the halving of the subsidy, the generated transaction fees have filled in the gap and absorbed the expected shock for the miners.

[LoyceV]

That's it. I declare Bitcoin broken at the moment

Now this a statement that surprised me!

How would you call it if normal people can't use Bitcoin as peer to peer electronic cash?

[BlackHatCoiner]

So, this was the record for the day?

Nope. The record of the day is easily this: https://mempool.space/tx/2bb85f4b004be6da54f766c17c1e855187327112c231ef2ff35ebad0ea67c69e. 3.6 million satoshis per vbyte. This person paid more than 6.732 bitcoin in transaction fee. It's the top transaction of the halving block. I guess you can call it the rarest Ordinal, or whatever they're called.  

I'm curious as to who will give more than $400,000 (!!!) for an Ordinal.

[stompix]

That's it. I declare Bitcoin broken at the moment

Now this a statement that surprised me!

How would you call it if normal people can't use Bitcoin as peer to peer electronic cash?

People can use it, blocks are mined, and transactions are confirmed, it's just that it's not cheap and the ones paying more are favored.
Ordinals or no ordinals the same would have happened if you would have had 100 million trying to use it daily.
Demand and offer!

So, this was the record for the day?

Nope. The record of the day is easily this: https://mempool.space/tx/2bb85f4b004be6da54f766c17c1e855187327112c231ef2ff35ebad0ea67c69e. 3.6 million satoshis per vbyte. This person paid more than 6.732 bitcoin in transaction fee. It's the top transaction of the halving block. I guess you can call it the rarest Ordinal, or whatever they're called. 

Loll, I didn't realize there is an extra, I thought it was 3,600 not 3,600,000.
This poor guy, despite spending $510,768 he didn't had the most expensive tx in sat/vb.
Imagine his disappointment.

[philipma1957]

That's it. I declare Bitcoin broken at the moment

Now this a statement that surprised me!

How would you call it if normal people can't use Bitcoin as peer to peer electronic cash?

People can use it, blocks are mined, and transactions are confirmed, it's just that it's not cheap and the ones paying more are favored.
Ordinals or no ordinals the same would have happened if you would have had 100 million trying to use it daily.
Demand and offer!

So, this was the record for the day?

Nope. The record of the day is easily this: https://mempool.space/tx/2bb85f4b004be6da54f766c17c1e855187327112c231ef2ff35ebad0ea67c69e. 3.6 million satoshis per vbyte. This person paid more than 6.732 bitcoin in transaction fee. It's the top transaction of the halving block. I guess you can call it the rarest Ordinal, or whatever they're called. 

Loll, I didn't realize there is an extra, I thought it was 3,600 not 3,600,000.
This poor guy, despite spending $510,768 he didn't had the most expensive tx in sat/vb.
Imagine his disappointment.

Its not broken but main chain sends are too expensive for small amounts .


clogged mempool and btc price at 64k.

if btc was 100k the smallest 1 sat send = 16 cent an 10 sat send = 1.60 at this point it is too expensive for small main chain sends.

if an when btc = 500k the smallest 1 sat sent = 80 cents and a  10 sat send = $8.00   so sending under $100 in btc on the main chain would be stupid.


USA has Zelle for no coiners you can easily send up to $1000 for free in under 5 minutes,  Bank to Bank with a linked phone number.

IN THE USA Zelle crushes btc for a small under 1 k send see below. sends on the 18th and 19th both under 5 minutes and free.

[Cricktor]

Once fees go down (if they'll ever), I'll try and start inscribing ordinals.

Interesting conclusion of yours. So you're adding your own poop to the pile of shit whatever name tag it has (Ordinals, Runes, ...)?
You instantly lost my respect, welcome to my evil list...

People don't know how to download Electrum wallet, how to create a wallet, how to save seeds, how to send coins, how to set correct fee and so on. Now I am confused, how is there such a high demand on ordinals? If they don't know such a basic things, how are these people able to inscribe ordinals and then buy it on auction. I think this process should be very confusing for many but it's the opposite.

I'm not interested in inscription/runes crap so don't have any personal full workflow experience. But if you look at accompanying websites and services, it seems pretty easy and sleek. Those who profit from this shit seem to be able to throw a ton of money at it to make it as accessible as possible and they did and do it for a reason. Guess what this reason is! Hint: they're neither altruistic nor philanthropic.

[Pmalek]

Bigger blocks aren't going to resolve this.

My post wasn't an argument to increase the block size. I think you misunderstood me. When I said the big blockers are going to win, I meant Ordinals, Runes, and whatever else they come up with in the future, is their way of punishing and attacking Bitcoin for not getting their way. And they wanted bigger blocks. Because they didn't get it, they are now spamming the network proving to everyone that Bitcoin can't be used in its current form.

[cryptosize]

Bigger blocks aren't going to resolve this.

My post wasn't an argument to increase the block size. I think you misunderstood me. When I said the big blockers are going to win, I meant Ordinals, Runes, and whatever else they come up with in the future, is their way of punishing and attacking Bitcoin for not getting their way. And they wanted bigger blocks. Because they didn't get it, they are now spamming the network proving to everyone that Bitcoin can't be used in its current form.

We don't know for sure if it's a conspiracy against BTC (do BCH/BSV lovers still hodl sizeable amounts of "worthless" BTC?), but it could be a (slight?) possibility, I guess.

[NeuroticFish]

Nope. The record of the day is easily this: https://mempool.space/tx/2bb85f4b004be6da54f766c17c1e855187327112c231ef2ff35ebad0ea67c69e. 3.6 million satoshis per vbyte. This person paid more than 6.732 bitcoin in transaction fee. It's the top transaction of the halving block. I guess you can call it the rarest Ordinal, or whatever they're called.  

I'm curious as to who will give more than $400,000 (!!!) for an Ordinal.

Woah! Impressive #fail. Call me evil, but "I'm lovin' it".

I want to also share that I've just seen on twitter that Norbert (which I was following since the trial of CSW) was just (2h ago) reposted some other(s) who have lost money trying to do with ordinals/runes things they don't understand. Of course, now they hate Bitcoin (because allowed them shoot themselves in the foot) heh...

Am I hoping too much if I hope for this trend to continue and before too long these peeps leave Bitcoin alone?

[mindrust]

Look on the bright side, if btc overcomes this attack, it will become even stronger. If btc gets destroyed like this, then it would mean btc never had any chance to start with. Hopefully the spammers will run out of sats and btc will keep moving on. Otherwise this doesn't look good. An asset with 1.2 trillion USD market cap will leave a crater on the markets if it goes down like that. I don't think the spammers will win. Btc will  survive this mess like it always has done. Still though, even if the fees go back down to the (more) reasonable levels, btc will still stay expensive probably and that will keep driving away new people.

[NeuroticFish]

Look on the bright side, if btc overcomes this attack, it will become even stronger. If btc gets destroyed like this, then it would mean btc never had any chance to start with. Hopefully the spammers will run out of sats and btc will keep moving on. Otherwise this doesn't look good. An asset with 1.2 trillion USD market cap will leave a crater on the markets if it goes down like that. I don't think the spammers win. Btc will  survive this mess like it always has done. Still though, even if the fees go back down to the reasonable levels, btc will still stay expensive probably and that will keep driving away new people.

High fees keep the miners happy and make them not feel so much the halving.
So this is also a good test for us, the users, since by design the fees can't stay too low and the mining remain such a good business.

And there are always some idiots willing to pay for crap, so I'd expect more the ordinals/runes/whatever hype go off (sooner or later) than these guys run out of sats (or BTCs, seeing what has happened at the halving block)