Using stove power outlet for mining?

[calvinwch]

Exactly what he said ... That's what I was getting at.

There seem to be lots of confusion so my reply was more adding info that may help some people than aimed specifically at you.

As for what i know that 220-240v 40a are 3 wires plug and cable, which are 2 hot wire and 1 ground wire.  Each hot wire are still only 20a.
15a or 20a are normal outlet in most home in the US, which can hanle 1800/2400w.  I will reserve 20% of the load for safety due to if you are running the power consistently over 3 hours.  so you are talking about 1440/1920w per a breaker line (not each outlet).

With your kitchen 240v that really don't give you much if you running a 6-8gpu rig 1k-1.2kw.  which only allow you run 2 rigs or 3 max.   BTW most American home power line are 100a cable from outside, apartment that depend could be 100 or 200a.  you really  can't setup like mining farm, because you will max out your power line after 4 rigs that take 1kw+ each system.  Unless you not using any electricity at home, like Microwave, AC, Ranger, Fridge bla bla bla that draw power as well.

No. While 240v 40a is 3 or 4 wires, both hots are 40A, but at 120v, the ground and optionally the neutral are there but not any different from usual. Two 120v 20a give you 240v 20a, not 40a. Phil is correct as usual.

You are right, each is 40a.  but i won't use them full power, 40a each that is 80a for the line.  Your home wiring from outside more likely 100a only.   else your breaker may keep popping if you have too much load from the mining rig.  You need to count other appliance you using from home, since your line are only 100a from outside.

[1714668147]

1714668147

[philipma1957]

Exactly what he said ... That's what I was getting at.

There seem to be lots of confusion so my reply was more adding info that may help some people than aimed specifically at you.

As for what i know that 220-240v 40a are 3 wires plug and cable, which are 2 hot wire and 1 ground wire.  Each hot wire are still only 20a.
15a or 20a are normal outlet in most home in the US, which can hanle 1800/2400w.  I will reserve 20% of the load for safety due to if you are running the power consistently over 3 hours.  so you are talking about 1440/1920w per a breaker line (not each outlet).

With your kitchen 240v that really don't give you much if you running a 6-8gpu rig 1k-1.2kw.  which only allow you run 2 rigs or 3 max.   BTW most American home power line are 100a cable from outside, apartment that depend could be 100 or 200a.  you really  can't setup like mining farm, because you will max out your power line after 4 rigs that take 1kw+ each system.  Unless you not using any electricity at home, like Microwave, AC, Ranger, Fridge bla bla bla that draw power as well.

No. While 240v 40a is 3 or 4 wires, both hots are 40A, but at 120v, the ground and optionally the neutral are there but not any different from usual. Two 120v 20a give you 240v 20a, not 40a. Phil is correct as usual.

I am more then 90% of the time.  But In this case  I am really sure  he should do what I said.

[therealspidey]

Exactly what he said ... That's what I was getting at.

There seem to be lots of confusion so my reply was more adding info that may help some people than aimed specifically at you.

As for what i know that 220-240v 40a are 3 wires plug and cable, which are 2 hot wire and 1 ground wire.  Each hot wire are still only 20a.
15a or 20a are normal outlet in most home in the US, which can hanle 1800/2400w.  I will reserve 20% of the load for safety due to if you are running the power consistently over 3 hours.  so you are talking about 1440/1920w per a breaker line (not each outlet).

With your kitchen 240v that really don't give you much if you running a 6-8gpu rig 1k-1.2kw.  which only allow you run 2 rigs or 3 max.   BTW most American home power line are 100a cable from outside, apartment that depend could be 100 or 200a.  you really  can't setup like mining farm, because you will max out your power line after 4 rigs that take 1kw+ each system.  Unless you not using any electricity at home, like Microwave, AC, Ranger, Fridge bla bla bla that draw power as well.

No. While 240v 40a is 3 or 4 wires, both hots are 40A, but at 120v, the ground and optionally the neutral are there but not any different from usual. Two 120v 20a give you 240v 20a, not 40a. Phil is correct as usual.

This is incorrect. 240V is 2 hot and a bonded conductor, commonly called the ground. There is no neutral.

A 4 wire system is 3 phase - 2 hot, 1 neutral, 1 bonded conductor (ground). Commonly used in commercial buildings, not typical for residential. Due to 3 phases, you get the standard 120V phase to ground (or neutral) and 208V phase to phase.

[greyday]

Efficiency to a degree is valid, yes, though in my house I've noticed an extremely negligible difference when testing antminer PSUs (though they are SUPPOSED to have significant efficiency variance).

Draw? 4x120=480W. 2x240=480W. How are you running double the rigs on the same wattage?

You're able to run more on less amp draw with 240.  Not more wattage.  Maybe I said that wrong.  If you have 100amp service, that's your limit.  If you have 200amp service, that's your limit ...

I see what you're saying, but the draw is coming from the single breaker in the main box, so it has no effect on your service limit. From that point, a 220 40a will provide enough power for 2x20a @220 or 4x20a @110. It's the same amount of energy.

[VirosaGITS]

Exactly what he said ... That's what I was getting at.

There seem to be lots of confusion so my reply was more adding info that may help some people than aimed specifically at you.

As for what i know that 220-240v 40a are 3 wires plug and cable, which are 2 hot wire and 1 ground wire.  Each hot wire are still only 20a.
15a or 20a are normal outlet in most home in the US, which can hanle 1800/2400w.  I will reserve 20% of the load for safety due to if you are running the power consistently over 3 hours.  so you are talking about 1440/1920w per a breaker line (not each outlet).

With your kitchen 240v that really don't give you much if you running a 6-8gpu rig 1k-1.2kw.  which only allow you run 2 rigs or 3 max.   BTW most American home power line are 100a cable from outside, apartment that depend could be 100 or 200a.  you really  can't setup like mining farm, because you will max out your power line after 4 rigs that take 1kw+ each system.  Unless you not using any electricity at home, like Microwave, AC, Ranger, Fridge bla bla bla that draw power as well.

No. While 240v 40a is 3 or 4 wires, both hots are 40A, but at 120v, the ground and optionally the neutral are there but not any different from usual. Two 120v 20a give you 240v 20a, not 40a. Phil is correct as usual.

This is incorrect. 240V is 2 hot and a bonded conductor, commonly called the ground. There is no neutral.

A 4 wire system is 3 phase - 2 hot, 1 neutral, 1 bonded conductor (ground). Commonly used in commercial buildings, not typical for residential. Due to 3 phases, you get the standard 120V phase to ground (or neutral) and 208V phase to phase.

Hold on a second. What is incorrect, to me you just repeated what i said. Except though i believe you are incorrect about the 3 phase bit.

Are you arguing the neutral part? That's only useful if you want 120V. It's not 3 phase, that's something else. 3 Phase is not available in residential setup, but 4 wire 240v is. It's standard even, you will see 4 pins on oven connector, as such is the case in this thread; 2 Hot, 1 Ground, 1 Neutral

For example a lot of ovens have a 120V plug in the front, that's because the 120V will use 1 hot leg + neutral as reference.
Then the 240V use 2 120V hot leg. Both 120V and 240V has a ground, whether you use it or not.

Efficiency to a degree is valid, yes, though in my house I've noticed an extremely negligible difference when testing antminer PSUs (though they are SUPPOSED to have significant efficiency variance).

Draw? 4x120=480W. 2x240=480W. How are you running double the rigs on the same wattage?

You're able to run more on less amp draw with 240.  Not more wattage.  Maybe I said that wrong.  If you have 100amp service, that's your limit.  If you have 200amp service, that's your limit ...

I see what you're saying, but the draw is coming from the single breaker in the main box, so it has no effect on your service limit. From that point, a 220 40a will provide enough power for 2x20a @220 or 4x20a @110. It's the same amount of energy.

I'm pretty sure that's not right, if you use 120V you will be using 1 Hot leg + 1 Neutral. You won't be using both hot legs. So if you have 4 * 20A 120V breaker you have 80A available, 80% = 64A@120V = 7680Watts available. If you have 80A on 240V you have 64A@240V = 15360Watts available.

This is why you want to use 240V for mining, as you halve your amount of AMP use, effectively having access to twice as much Watts on the same electrical entrance.

Maybe a certified Electrician can comment...

[gotminer]

Exactly what he said ... That's what I was getting at.

There seem to be lots of confusion so my reply was more adding info that may help some people than aimed specifically at you.

As for what i know that 220-240v 40a are 3 wires plug and cable, which are 2 hot wire and 1 ground wire.  Each hot wire are still only 20a.
15a or 20a are normal outlet in most home in the US, which can hanle 1800/2400w.  I will reserve 20% of the load for safety due to if you are running the power consistently over 3 hours.  so you are talking about 1440/1920w per a breaker line (not each outlet).

With your kitchen 240v that really don't give you much if you running a 6-8gpu rig 1k-1.2kw.  which only allow you run 2 rigs or 3 max.   BTW most American home power line are 100a cable from outside, apartment that depend could be 100 or 200a.  you really  can't setup like mining farm, because you will max out your power line after 4 rigs that take 1kw+ each system.  Unless you not using any electricity at home, like Microwave, AC, Ranger, Fridge bla bla bla that draw power as well.

No. While 240v 40a is 3 or 4 wires, both hots are 40A, but at 120v, the ground and optionally the neutral are there but not any different from usual. Two 120v 20a give you 240v 20a, not 40a. Phil is correct as usual.

This is incorrect. 240V is 2 hot and a bonded conductor, commonly called the ground. There is no neutral.

A 4 wire system is 3 phase - 2 hot, 1 neutral, 1 bonded conductor (ground). Commonly used in commercial buildings, not typical for residential. Due to 3 phases, you get the standard 120V phase to ground (or neutral) and 208V phase to phase.

Hold on a second. What is incorrect, to me you just repeated what i said. Except though i believe you are incorrect about the 3 phase bit.

Are you arguing the neutral part? That's only useful if you want 120V. It's not 3 phase, that's something else. 3 Phase is not available in residential setup, but 4 wire 240v is. It's standard even, you will see 4 pins on oven connector, as such is the case in this thread; 2 Hot, 1 Ground, 1 Neutral

For example a lot of ovens have a 120V plug in the front, that's because the 120V will use 1 hot leg + neutral as reference.
Then the 240V use 2 120V hot leg. Both 120V and 240V has a ground, whether you use it or not.

Efficiency to a degree is valid, yes, though in my house I've noticed an extremely negligible difference when testing antminer PSUs (though they are SUPPOSED to have significant efficiency variance).

Draw? 4x120=480W. 2x240=480W. How are you running double the rigs on the same wattage?

You're able to run more on less amp draw with 240.  Not more wattage.  Maybe I said that wrong.  If you have 100amp service, that's your limit.  If you have 200amp service, that's your limit ...

I see what you're saying, but the draw is coming from the single breaker in the main box, so it has no effect on your service limit. From that point, a 220 40a will provide enough power for 2x20a @220 or 4x20a @110. It's the same amount of energy.

I'm pretty sure that's not right, if you use 120V you will be using 1 Hot leg + 1 Neutral. You won't be using both hot legs. So if you have 4 * 20A 120V breaker you have 80A available, 80% = 64A@120V = 7680Watts available. If you have 80A on 240V you have 64A@240V = 15360Watts available.

This is why you want to use 240V for mining, as you halve your amount of AMP use, effectively having access to twice as much Watts on the same electrical entrance.

Maybe a certified Electrician can comment...

That is correct.  I've measured it on a rig running on 120V and I've measured it on a rig running 240V.  If your rig on 120 is drawing 8A, it's only drawing 4A on 240V.

Wattage divided by Voltage = Amp ... 900W Rig/120V = 7.5A ... 900W Rig/240V = 3.75A.

[greyday]

I see what you're saying, but the draw is coming from the single breaker in the main box, so it has no effect on your service limit. From that point, a 220 40a will provide enough power for 2x20a @220 or 4x20a @110. It's the same amount of energy.

I'm pretty sure that's not right, if you use 120V you will be using 1 Hot leg + 1 Neutral. You won't be using both hot legs. So if you have 4 * 20A 120V breaker you have 80A available, 80% = 64A@120V = 7680Watts available. If you have 80A on 240V you have 64A@240V = 15360Watts available.

This is why you want to use 240V for mining, as you halve your amount of AMP use, effectively having access to twice as much Watts on the same electrical entrance.

Maybe a certified Electrician can comment...

Your power consumption isn't based on amperage, it's based on wattage.

And I am talking about a sub box, not a single outlet (which your math makes sense for). Your neutral is in the box and you have a separate ground. You can run whatever you want out of it up to the max wattage supplied by the breaker supplying the box (and space in the box, 220s take up twice the space, remember). So in your example, if you have 80A on 240 feeding the box, you indeed have 15,360W available (for constant draw, but since we're both working that into the math already, let's leave it as assumed for the rest of this example). How that gets broken up is up to you, you can have, say, 4x 20a 240v breakers (4*20=80*240*.8=15360), or 8x 20a 120v (8*20=160*120*.8=15360), or you can have, say, 2x 20a 240v and 4x 20a 110v, or any combination that adds up to 15360 (or less).

That is correct.  I've measured it on a rig running on 120V and I've measured it on a rig running 240V.  If your rig on 120 is drawing 8A, it's only drawing 4A on 240V.

Wattage divided by Voltage = Amp ... 900W Rig/120V = 7.5A ... 900W Rig/240V = 3.75A.

That's correct. But the draw is wattage, not amperage. Both those examples are using the same amount of energy.

[greyday]

Here's a basic primer in how electricity works:

https://science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/energy/question501.htm

EDIT TO ADD: not posted to be condescending, this is the article I read when I started working with wiring

[VirosaGITS]

I see what you're saying, but the draw is coming from the single breaker in the main box, so it has no effect on your service limit. From that point, a 220 40a will provide enough power for 2x20a @220 or 4x20a @110. It's the same amount of energy.

I'm pretty sure that's not right, if you use 120V you will be using 1 Hot leg + 1 Neutral. You won't be using both hot legs. So if you have 4 * 20A 120V breaker you have 80A available, 80% = 64A@120V = 7680Watts available. If you have 80A on 240V you have 64A@240V = 15360Watts available.

This is why you want to use 240V for mining, as you halve your amount of AMP use, effectively having access to twice as much Watts on the same electrical entrance.

Maybe a certified Electrician can comment...

Your power consumption isn't based on amperage, it's based on wattage.

And I am talking about a sub box, not a single outlet (which your math makes sense for). Your neutral is in the box and you have a separate ground. You can run whatever you want out of it up to the max wattage supplied by the breaker supplying the box (and space in the box, 220s take up twice the space, remember). So in your example, if you have 80A on 240 feeding the box, you indeed have 15,360W available (for constant draw, but since we're both working that into the math already, let's leave it as assumed for the rest of this example). How that gets broken up is up to you, you can have, say, 4x 20a 240v breakers (4*20=80*240*.8=15360), or 8x 20a 120v (8*20=160*120*.8=15360), or you can have, say, 2x 20a 240v and 4x 20a 110v, or any combination that adds up to 15360 (or less).

That is correct.  I've measured it on a rig running on 120V and I've measured it on a rig running 240V.  If your rig on 120 is drawing 8A, it's only drawing 4A on 240V.

Wattage divided by Voltage = Amp ... 900W Rig/120V = 7.5A ... 900W Rig/240V = 3.75A.

That's correct. But the draw is wattage, not amperage. Both those examples are using the same amount of energy.

What are you even arguing. On a 200A panel. If you're using 120V, you can use 120V * 200A. If you're using 240V, you can use 240V * 200A. The Amp limit doesn't change, but the wattage does. You can't use twice as much Ampere on 120V because its half of 240V.

Current is Amperes, not watts and your panel/entrance is Amperes. Your limit is in Ampere, not watts. So you could max your say 200A panel/counter/entrance with 240V or 120V or a combination thereof, but we're counting Amps here.

Watts/Volt = Amp, so if you're using 120V you can use half as much watts as versus 240V.

So if you're using 1000 watts on 120V you're using 8~ Amp out of your 200A and you're not getting it back by loading the other leg with 8~ Amps 120v. That's 16 Amps @120V used, or 1920Watts~ You're not allowed twice as much Amperes.

If you're using 1000 watts on 240V you're using 4 Amps out of your 200A. So you're getting twice as much watts for the same amperage.

So no, you can't use 38400 Watts on 120V with 200A panel, that would be 320Amps but you can at 240V.

[gotminer]

I see what you're saying, but the draw is coming from the single breaker in the main box, so it has no effect on your service limit. From that point, a 220 40a will provide enough power for 2x20a @220 or 4x20a @110. It's the same amount of energy.

I'm pretty sure that's not right, if you use 120V you will be using 1 Hot leg + 1 Neutral. You won't be using both hot legs. So if you have 4 * 20A 120V breaker you have 80A available, 80% = 64A@120V = 7680Watts available. If you have 80A on 240V you have 64A@240V = 15360Watts available.

This is why you want to use 240V for mining, as you halve your amount of AMP use, effectively having access to twice as much Watts on the same electrical entrance.

Maybe a certified Electrician can comment...

Your power consumption isn't based on amperage, it's based on wattage.

And I am talking about a sub box, not a single outlet (which your math makes sense for). Your neutral is in the box and you have a separate ground. You can run whatever you want out of it up to the max wattage supplied by the breaker supplying the box (and space in the box, 220s take up twice the space, remember). So in your example, if you have 80A on 240 feeding the box, you indeed have 15,360W available (for constant draw, but since we're both working that into the math already, let's leave it as assumed for the rest of this example). How that gets broken up is up to you, you can have, say, 4x 20a 240v breakers (4*20=80*240*.8=15360), or 8x 20a 120v (8*20=160*120*.8=15360), or you can have, say, 2x 20a 240v and 4x 20a 110v, or any combination that adds up to 15360 (or less).

That is correct.  I've measured it on a rig running on 120V and I've measured it on a rig running 240V.  If your rig on 120 is drawing 8A, it's only drawing 4A on 240V.

Wattage divided by Voltage = Amp ... 900W Rig/120V = 7.5A ... 900W Rig/240V = 3.75A.

That's correct. But the draw is wattage, not amperage. Both those examples are using the same amount of energy.

I never said it was using less energy.  They use equal amounts of energy.  I'm saying that your service limit is what it is ... 100A, 200A, ect (should be labeled on the breaker box) ... So I would rather be using up less of that limit by running off of a 240V outlet, as opposed to 120V.

[gotminer]

I see what you're saying, but the draw is coming from the single breaker in the main box, so it has no effect on your service limit. From that point, a 220 40a will provide enough power for 2x20a @220 or 4x20a @110. It's the same amount of energy.

I'm pretty sure that's not right, if you use 120V you will be using 1 Hot leg + 1 Neutral. You won't be using both hot legs. So if you have 4 * 20A 120V breaker you have 80A available, 80% = 64A@120V = 7680Watts available. If you have 80A on 240V you have 64A@240V = 15360Watts available.

This is why you want to use 240V for mining, as you halve your amount of AMP use, effectively having access to twice as much Watts on the same electrical entrance.

Maybe a certified Electrician can comment...

Your power consumption isn't based on amperage, it's based on wattage.

And I am talking about a sub box, not a single outlet (which your math makes sense for). Your neutral is in the box and you have a separate ground. You can run whatever you want out of it up to the max wattage supplied by the breaker supplying the box (and space in the box, 220s take up twice the space, remember). So in your example, if you have 80A on 240 feeding the box, you indeed have 15,360W available (for constant draw, but since we're both working that into the math already, let's leave it as assumed for the rest of this example). How that gets broken up is up to you, you can have, say, 4x 20a 240v breakers (4*20=80*240*.8=15360), or 8x 20a 120v (8*20=160*120*.8=15360), or you can have, say, 2x 20a 240v and 4x 20a 110v, or any combination that adds up to 15360 (or less).

That is correct.  I've measured it on a rig running on 120V and I've measured it on a rig running 240V.  If your rig on 120 is drawing 8A, it's only drawing 4A on 240V.

Wattage divided by Voltage = Amp ... 900W Rig/120V = 7.5A ... 900W Rig/240V = 3.75A.

That's correct. But the draw is wattage, not amperage. Both those examples are using the same amount of energy.

What are you even arguing. On a 200A panel. If you're using 120V, you can use 120V * 200A. If you're using 240V, you can use 240V * 200A. The Amp limit doesn't change, but the wattage does. You can't use twice as much Ampere on 120V because its half of 240V.

Current is Amperes, not watts and your panel/entrance is Amperes. Your limit is in Ampere, not watts. So you could max your say 200A panel/counter/entrance with 240V or 120V or a combination thereof, but we're counting Amps here.

Watts/Volt = Amp, so if you're using 120V you can use half as much watts as versus 240V.

So if you're using 1000 watts on 120V you're using 8~ Amp out of your 200A and you're not getting it back by loading the other leg with 8~ Amps 120v. That's 16 Amps @120V used, or 1920Watts~ You're not allowed twice as much Amperes.

If you're using 1000 watts on 240V you're using 4 Amps out of your 200A. So you're getting twice as much watts for the same amperage.

So no, you can't use 38400 Watts on 120V with 200A panel, that would be 320Amps but you can at 240V.

He is arguing, because he thinks that we're saying the energy usage is 1/2 on 240 than it is 120, and no one here that I can see is claiming that.

[VirosaGITS]

He is arguing, because he thinks that we're saying the energy usage is 1/2 on 240 than it is 120, and no one here that I can see is claiming that.

Oh, no, its less current (A), half as much. Same wattage And maybe 0.5% to 4% less power consumption due to easier step down and AC/DC conversion efficiency, nothing to do with what we were talking(arguing?) about.

[greyday]

What are you even arguing. On a 200A panel. If you're using 120V, you can use 120V * 200A. If you're using 240V, you can use 240V * 200A. The Amp limit doesn't change, but the wattage does. You can't use twice as much Ampere on 120V because its half of 240V.

Current is Amperes, not watts and your panel/entrance is Amperes. Your limit is in Ampere, not watts. So you could max your say 200A panel/counter/entrance with 240V or 120V or a combination thereof, but we're counting Amps here.

Watts/Volt = Amp, so if you're using 120V you can use half as much watts as versus 240V.

So if you're using 1000 watts on 120V you're using 8~ Amp out of your 200A and you're not getting it back by loading the other leg with 8~ Amps 120v. That's 16 Amps @120V used, or 1920Watts~ You're not allowed twice as much Amperes.

If you're using 1000 watts on 240V you're using 4 Amps out of your 200A. So you're getting twice as much watts for the same amperage.

So no, you can't use 38400 Watts on 120V with 200A panel, that would be 320Amps but you can at 240V.

He is arguing, because he thinks that we're saying the energy usage is 1/2 on 240 than it is 120, and no one here that I can see is claiming that.

Crap, you're right, that is where the disconnect is, and I'm totally reading and interpreting all the math wrong as a result. The amperage would indeed be the limitation on the breaker box.

I mean, technically you COULD still install 4 20a 110s in a breaker box fed by a single 40a 220, but you'd still have the load problem and the breaker would trip under more than 50% load, and that wasn't what I was saying anyway. Apologies for confusing the conversation.

EDIT TO ADD: See QuintLeo below, I was not confused (or as confused as I thought I was). Apology for hijacking still stands, though.

[VirosaGITS]

What are you even arguing. On a 200A panel. If you're using 120V, you can use 120V * 200A. If you're using 240V, you can use 240V * 200A. The Amp limit doesn't change, but the wattage does. You can't use twice as much Ampere on 120V because its half of 240V.

Current is Amperes, not watts and your panel/entrance is Amperes. Your limit is in Ampere, not watts. So you could max your say 200A panel/counter/entrance with 240V or 120V or a combination thereof, but we're counting Amps here.

Watts/Volt = Amp, so if you're using 120V you can use half as much watts as versus 240V.

So if you're using 1000 watts on 120V you're using 8~ Amp out of your 200A and you're not getting it back by loading the other leg with 8~ Amps 120v. That's 16 Amps @120V used, or 1920Watts~ You're not allowed twice as much Amperes.

If you're using 1000 watts on 240V you're using 4 Amps out of your 200A. So you're getting twice as much watts for the same amperage.

So no, you can't use 38400 Watts on 120V with 200A panel, that would be 320Amps but you can at 240V.

He is arguing, because he thinks that we're saying the energy usage is 1/2 on 240 than it is 120, and no one here that I can see is claiming that.

Crap, you're right, that is where the disconnect is, and I'm totally reading and interpreting all the math wrong as a result. The amperage would indeed be the limitation on the breaker box.

I mean, technically you COULD still install 4 20a 110s in a breaker box fed by a single 40a 220, but you'd still have the load problem and the breaker would trip under more than 50% load, and that wasn't what I was saying anyway. Apologies for confusing the conversation.

No worries, its not like we completely derailed op's thread or anything. 

[QuintLeo]

You're able to run more on less amp draw with 240.  Not more wattage.  Maybe I said that wrong.  If you have 100amp service, that's your limit.  If you have 200amp service, that's your limit ...

I save maybe 1% Watts using EVGA G2/P2 ATX PSU's on 240v vs 120v. Some Server PSU have a big difference, like 4-5%, even as far as to have a TDP limit of 1100w on 240v or max 800w if they're plugged on 120v.

As for Amps, 240v is half the amp for the same wattage, that's why using 240v allowed me twice as much rigs in an apartment setup!

30a * 0.8 * 120v = 2880w limit
30a * 0.8 * 240v = 5760w limit

Basically, 240v is safer, since the risk is of burning down is a AMPERE thing. My rig will still pull 1kW~ but on 240v its 4A~ Instead of 8A~ so the power cord is cooler and less amp go through the socket.

1-2% is typical for savings on a gold-rated supply when using 234 VAC input instead of 117 VAC.
Probably a bit less on a Platinum or better rated supply.

Server PS that have a much lower wattage rating at 117 VAC are limited by the input circuitry only being designed to handle a certain amperage - it's NOT an "efficiency" difference causing the greatly different max power ratings.

Your APARTMENT panel is fed at 234 VAC - the total power draw is going to be basically the SAME if you feed the miners from 117VAC as if you feed them from 234 VAC, as you can pull *60* amps at 117 VAC of total current draw.
The only difference is going to be a very small increase in IIR losses at 117 VAC vs 234 VAC (which is also WHY your power supply is a hair more efficient at 234 VAC, reduced IIR losses in the input circuitry).

Changing to 234 VAC does NOT allow you "double the wattage".

It DOES allow you to use smaller wire gauge for the same power draw, or use the same wire gauge and run a lot cooler (which does reduce fire risk).

[QuintLeo]

He is arguing, because he thinks that we're saying the energy usage is 1/2 on 240 than it is 120, and no one here that I can see is claiming that.

Crap, you're right, that is where the disconnect is, and I'm totally reading and interpreting all the math wrong as a result. The amperage would indeed be the limitation on the breaker box.

I mean, technically you COULD still install 4 20a 110s in a breaker box fed by a single 40a 220, but you'd still have the load problem and the breaker would trip under more than 50% load, and that wasn't what I was saying anyway. Apologies for confusing the conversation.

4 20 amp 117 circuits fed from a single 40 amp 234 circuit WILL NOT cause your breaker for the 40 amp circuit to trip at 50% power draw, unless you don't wire the 117 circuits correctly in the secondary panel.

The way the panel is set up, 2 of those 117 circuits end up IN SERIES with the other 2 (with the neutral transferring any imbalance back to the pole transformer) IF you wire the thing up correctly, 2 breakers on each "side".


For reference, common 234 volt service in the US (and Canada) is set up as "split phase", more widely known as a "center tapped" arrangement.
Half of the 117 circuits are set up to be on one side of the "neutral" center tap, the other half on the other side, with the WHOLE of each side being in series with the WHOLE of the other side, optimally keeping the draw on each side balanced or nearly so to reduce the current on the neutral feed line.
THEREFORE, you can pull *TWICE THE AMPERAGE* at 117 as your 234 feed provides, as half that amperage is in series with the other half.

This is not theory, this is a union-trained electrician and a VERY long time electronic tech explaining FACTS.

[VirosaGITS]

4 20 amp 117 circuits fed from a single 40 amp 234 circuit WILL NOT cause your breaker for the 40 amp circuit to trip at 50% power draw, unless you don't wire the 117 circuits correctly in the secondary panel.

The way the panel is set up, 2 of those 117 circuits end up IN SERIES with the other 2 (with the neutral transferring any imbalance back to the pole transformer) IF you wire the thing up correctly, 2 breakers on each "side".


For reference, common 234 volt service in the US (and Canada) is set up as "split phase", more widely known as a "center tapped" arrangement.
Half of the 117 circuits are set up to be on one side of the "neutral" center tap, the other half on the other side, with the WHOLE of each side being in series with the WHOLE of the other side, optimally keeping the draw on each side balanced or nearly so to reduce the current on the neutral feed line.
THEREFORE, you can pull *TWICE THE AMPERAGE* at 117 as your 234 feed provides, as half that amperage is in series with the other half.

This is not theory, this is a union-trained electrician and a VERY long time electronic tech explaining FACTS.

Why did my 100A panel trip with only 8 * 15a circuits then? 4 were on left leg and 4 on right leg. Draw was around 50A on each side, more like 45/55A measured with clamp. However this is the bit i wasn't certain about. You seem to be saying i could have used 160A @ 120V on a 100A panel as long as i balanced each side properly?

[QuintLeo]

As for what i know that 220-240v 40a are 3 wires plug and cable, which are 2 hot wire and 1 ground wire.  Each hot wire are still only 20a.
15a or 20a are normal outlet in most home in the US, which can hanle 1800/2400w.  I will reserve 20% of the load for safety due to if you are running the power consistently over 3 hours.  so you are talking about 1440/1920w per a breaker line (not each outlet).

With your kitchen 240v that really don't give you much if you running a 6-8gpu rig 1k-1.2kw.  which only allow you run 2 rigs or 3 max.   BTW most American home power line are 100a cable from outside, apartment that depend could be 100 or 200a.  you really  can't setup like mining farm, because you will max out your power line after 4 rigs that take 1kw+ each system.  Unless you not using any electricity at home, like Microwave, AC, Ranger, Fridge bla bla bla that draw power as well.

 It depends.

 NEMA 6 uses 2 hots and a ground for wiring to devices that are 234 volt only.
 NEMA 14 uses 2 hots, a neutral, and a ground for wiring to devices that use BOTH 234 volt AND 117 volt - most commonly electric ranges/ovens as the clocks normally are standard 117 volt clocks while the heater elements run from 234 volts.

 Home outlets NORMALLY are NEMA 5-15, 117 VAC 15 amp - 20 amp outlets at 117 VAC are UNcommon, but do see some use for high-power A/C units and occasionally in shops/garages.
 It is NOT uncommon to see a 20 amp CIRCUIT in a kitchen, with a pair of 15 amp duplex outlets on the one circuit.

 Most US power feeds on NEW homes are 150 or 200 amp - 200 in areas of cheap electricity, 150 where electric is not cheap but natural gas is available.
 Apartments are commonly 50 amp in natural gas heat areas, 80 or 100 in cheap electric areas - but even THERE I've seen some 50 amp apartment feeds in the area I live in which is VERY VERY cheap electric and can't GET natural gas at all.
 I've NEVER seen an apartment with more than a 100 amp feed, though I won't say that they don't exist in very high-scale high-end apartment buildings.

 Before you start pulling large amounts of power, though, DEFINITELY CHECK how much you have available - which will normally be what the main breaker on your main panel is rated at (if it's NOT then the breaker was mis-installed or someone unqualified changed it, that matchup is a NEC reguirement).

[VirosaGITS]

As for what i know that 220-240v 40a are 3 wires plug and cable, which are 2 hot wire and 1 ground wire.  Each hot wire are still only 20a.
15a or 20a are normal outlet in most home in the US, which can hanle 1800/2400w.  I will reserve 20% of the load for safety due to if you are running the power consistently over 3 hours.  so you are talking about 1440/1920w per a breaker line (not each outlet).

With your kitchen 240v that really don't give you much if you running a 6-8gpu rig 1k-1.2kw.  which only allow you run 2 rigs or 3 max.   BTW most American home power line are 100a cable from outside, apartment that depend could be 100 or 200a.  you really  can't setup like mining farm, because you will max out your power line after 4 rigs that take 1kw+ each system.  Unless you not using any electricity at home, like Microwave, AC, Ranger, Fridge bla bla bla that draw power as well.

 It depends.

 NEMA 6 uses 2 hots and a ground for wiring to devices that are 234 volt only.
 NEMA 14 uses 2 hots, a neutral, and a ground for wiring to devices that use BOTH 234 volt AND 117 volt - most commonly electric ranges/ovens as the clocks normally are standard 117 volt clocks while the heater elements run from 234 volts.

 Home outlets NORMALLY are NEMA 5-15, 117 VAC 15 amp - 20 amp outlets at 117 VAC are UNcommon, but do see some use for high-power A/C units and occasionally in shops/garages.
 It is NOT uncommon to see a 20 amp CIRCUIT in a kitchen, with a pair of 15 amp duplex outlets on the one circuit.

 Most US power feeds on NEW homes are 150 or 200 amp - 200 in areas of cheap electricity, 150 where electric is not cheap but natural gas is available.
 Apartments are commonly 50 amp in natural gas heat areas, 80 or 100 in cheap electric areas - but even THERE I've seen some 50 amp apartment feeds in the area I live in which is VERY VERY cheap electric and can't GET natural gas at all.
 I've NEVER seen an apartment with more than a 100 amp feed, though I won't say that they don't exist in very high-scale high-end apartment buildings.

 Before you start pulling large amounts of power, though, DEFINITELY CHECK how much you have available - which will normally be what the main breaker on your main panel is rated at (if it's NOT then the breaker was mis-installed or someone unqualified changed it, that matchup is a NEC reguirement).

Personally i have an house now, and using 100% 240V, so easy money, easy to wire myself. Hopefully OP or someone else will find all this info useful.

[QuintLeo]

Why did my 100A panel trip with only 8 * 15a circuits then? 4 were on left leg and 4 on right leg. Draw was around 50A on each side, more like 45/55A measured with clamp. However this is the bit i wasn't certain about. You seem to be saying i could have used 160A @ 120V on a 100A panel as long as i balanced each side properly?

 How hot was it at the panel?

 Breakers DO derate with temperature.
 I've seen a LOT of cases of a breaker tripping when it's at 60% or less of it's rated capacity, when the area the panel was in was hot and the panel wasn't well ventilated.

 Could also have been an old breaker that was wearing out - breakers last a long time but NOT forever.

 Was the main breaker ITSELF a 100 amp unit? Some panels don't have the main breaker in the panel, they feed from somewhere else and the breaker for the circuit FEEDING the panel may have had less than a 100 amp breaker on it.
 This is fairly widespread in apartment setups, one main panel with a bunch of 50 amp 234 VAC breakers feeding secondary panels in each apartment with no "main breaker" on the secondary panel.
 Just because the PANEL itself is rated 100 amps doesn't mean the feed to it is always 100 amps (and in practice, most panels aren't rated 100 amps anyway, 125 amp rated panel is the norm in "100 amp feed" setups).

 And yes, if everything is installed correctly, NOT overheating, NOT wearing out, and balanced well you can draw 160 amps at 117 VAC continuous from a 100 amp 234 VAC panel while staying within NEC limits - realistically you probably won't manage to balance PERFECTLY but miners aren't hard to keep balanced, it's the other stuff in the place that will commonly cause an imbalance.