The level of dellusion around here is outstanding...

[LordTricky]

The level of delusion amongst users of this forum is concerning, I have been following a few threads about bitcoin price and only 2 or 3 commenters have the right vision. You see we are at war guys, the guberments have gone to all exchanges and said yo, we wrote this legislation to allow you to charge for data, but in order for you to get paid you must give us accurate data. So they have all incorrectly applied KYC believing we purchase something from the exchanges them selves, when the reality is we allow the exchanges to take a fee from our trades in order to cover their running costs, it is basically a donation in the eyes of the law, and KYC does not apply because we purchase from other users of the exchange and not the actual exchange.

This being said, how do we know we can trust the exchanges with our data, especially where guberment are concerned. Lets look at the implications of ID sharing with exchange's who recognise guberment terrorists as an authority.

If you send an exchange your ID...
        And have ever sent coins to a darknet market or received from 1 or even a mixer, the authorities are literally waiting for you to hand over your ID so the exchange can inform on you.
        Wish to travel, due to legislation saying you can not travel with >10k you have likely been added to a list to be searched for bitcoin wallet hardware at customs, if not an interrogation.
        Will find that tax avoidance becomes problematic.

       Now what if the exchange / verification provider gets hacked or compromised, your ID and all your personal info that allows you (or anybody else pretending to be you) to get credit. Easily steal your identity, easily destroy your credit file and stop you from getting credit.

In conclusion in order to buy bitcoin or even exchange bitcoin to alts you have to surrender your privacy and potentially open your self up to questioning and being treated like a criminal, and the majority of users around here seem to think we are going to roll over and accept these risks.

I'm sorry but the simple fact of the matter is as long as the exchanges are incorrectly applying KYC bitcoin will continue to fall, Nobody with any brains will want to purchase anything that comes with the complete loss of privacy that bitcoin currently does.

Apologies if this is in the wrong board, wasn't sure which would be the best to post in.

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[The Demon Slick]

Problem: Identified.
Solutions?

[LordTricky]

Problem: Identified.
Solutions?

New decentralised exchanges that don't deal with fiat or anything relating to fiat, crypto to crypto only, obviously new will have trust issues.

Or my personal favourite, is somebody needs to take the exchanges to court over the incorrect application of KYC, and they need to win, this needs to be stopped and it needs stopping like yesterday.

I suspect all they are going to achieve is the dirtying of more crypto by people utilising the darknet in order to retain some anonymity. As far as I am concerned the majority of bitcoin adopters have skeletons in the closet so to speak, and will never hand over ID.

Now I really don't want to see more coins becoming tainted, nor do I want to see people getting locked up for accepting coins from a mixer, or buying coins out of escrow that might have come from darknet sites. I also don't want to see the price tumble, but it will do until we either have truly decentralised exchanges, or the current exchanges accept they are in the wrong over this KYC stupidity and remove it permanently from their sites.

2 options, only 1 is probable. Anybody else have any bright ideas I'm missing?

[paulmaritz]

The level of delusion amongst users of this forum is concerning, I have been following a few threads about bitcoin price and only 2 or 3 commenters have the right vision. You see we are at war guys, the guberments have gone to all exchanges and said yo, we wrote this legislation to allow you to charge for data, but in order for you to get paid you must give us accurate data. So they have all incorrectly applied KYC believing we purchase something from the exchanges them selves, when the reality is we allow the exchanges to take a fee from our trades in order to cover their running costs, it is basically a donation in the eyes of the law, and KYC does not apply because we purchase from other users of the exchange and not the actual exchange.

This being said, how do we know we can trust the exchanges with our data, especially where guberment are concerned. Lets look at the implications of ID sharing with exchange's who recognise guberment terrorists as an authority.

If you send an exchange your ID...
        And have ever sent coins to a darknet market or received from 1 or even a mixer, the authorities are literally waiting for you to hand over your ID so the exchange can inform on you.
        Wish to travel, due to legislation saying you can not travel with >10k you have likely been added to a list to be searched for bitcoin wallet hardware at customs, if not an interrogation.
        Will find that tax avoidance becomes problematic.

       Now what if the exchange / verification provider gets hacked or compromised, your ID and all your personal info that allows you (or anybody else pretending to be you) to get credit. Easily steal your identity, easily destroy your credit file and stop you from getting credit.

In conclusion in order to buy bitcoin or even exchange bitcoin to alts you have to surrender your privacy and potentially open your self up to questioning and being treated like a criminal, and the majority of users around here seem to think we are going to roll over and accept these risks.

I'm sorry but the simple fact of the matter is as long as the exchanges are incorrectly applying KYC bitcoin will continue to fall, Nobody with any brains will want to purchase anything that comes with the complete loss of privacy that bitcoin currently does.

Apologies if this is in the wrong board, wasn't sure which would be the best to post in.

Right on. In addition, most of those KYC processes are a right pain in the ass. Then a photo is too large, then it is too small, then you're not allowed to smile, then this, then that. I am sick and tired of if. I am also for fully decentralized exchanges. Hopefully we will see a ton of those surfacing soon.

[joebrook]

The level of delusion amongst users of this forum is concerning, I have been following a few threads about bitcoin price and only 2 or 3 commenters have the right vision. You see we are at war guys, the guberments have gone to all exchanges and said yo, we wrote this legislation to allow you to charge for data, but in order for you to get paid you must give us accurate data. So they have all incorrectly applied KYC believing we purchase something from the exchanges them selves, when the reality is we allow the exchanges to take a fee from our trades in order to cover their running costs, it is basically a donation in the eyes of the law, and KYC does not apply because we purchase from other users of the exchange and not the actual exchange.

This being said, how do we know we can trust the exchanges with our data, especially where guberment are concerned. Lets look at the implications of ID sharing with exchange's who recognise guberment terrorists as an authority.

If you send an exchange your ID...
        And have ever sent coins to a darknet market or received from 1 or even a mixer, the authorities are literally waiting for you to hand over your ID so the exchange can inform on you.
        Wish to travel, due to legislation saying you can not travel with >10k you have likely been added to a list to be searched for bitcoin wallet hardware at customs, if not an interrogation.
        Will find that tax avoidance becomes problematic.

       Now what if the exchange / verification provider gets hacked or compromised, your ID and all your personal info that allows you (or anybody else pretending to be you) to get credit. Easily steal your identity, easily destroy your credit file and stop you from getting credit.

In conclusion in order to buy bitcoin or even exchange bitcoin to alts you have to surrender your privacy and potentially open your self up to questioning and being treated like a criminal, and the majority of users around here seem to think we are going to roll over and accept these risks.

I'm sorry but the simple fact of the matter is as long as the exchanges are incorrectly applying KYC bitcoin will continue to fall, Nobody with any brains will want to purchase anything that comes with the complete loss of privacy that bitcoin currently does.

Apologies if this is in the wrong board, wasn't sure which would be the best to post in.

At the moment, all the investors in bitcoins are more concerned about making money rather than their anonymity and when is the issue, they will gladly want the government to regulate and put their privacy at risk than watching their investments go down, we are selling our own privacy for money.

[LordTricky]

Right on. In addition, most of those KYC processes are a right pain in the ass. Then a photo is too large, then it is too small, then you're not allowed to smile, then this, then that. I am sick and tired of if. I am also for fully decentralized exchanges. Hopefully we will see a ton of those surfacing soon.

You know I would not be surprised if the process was designed to be such a pain intentionally, I do understand why some places are doing it, they need indisputable evidence of whose fingers are on the keyboard. But places like poloniex or bittrex do not need to know whose fingers are on keyboards unless they are working with the authorities, linking wallet addresses to legal personalities so they can go kicking in doors over this transaction or other. Its utterly wrong, and they deserve to be hit in the pocket, as much as it would hurt me I prey for a penny per coin, maybe then they will sort their acts out and undo this KYC stupidity.

I Will never recognise terrorists masquerading as guberment, in order to get an ID to share with idiots on the internet. Bittrex are already holding some of my coin hostage and are attempting to extort ID from me. The funny thing is, they could have 100 of my coins, and I still would never get an ID, that would tell guberment I accept their existence when I do not and will never accept them.

I hope we see some decentralised exchanges soon too, I did look at bitshares a while back, but I was not buying 1000 BTS to open an account.

If somebody could clone polo and embed it into a qt type wallet that has no server or hot wallets, I would almost definitely install and make use of it, as long as we were given guarantees that everything was encrypted and the soo called authorities have no sway. Obviously I appreciate this is beyond my skill level, but where there is will, there is always a way...

[LordTricky]

At the moment, all the investors in bitcoins are more concerned about making money rather than their anonymity and when is the issue, they will gladly want the government to regulate and put their privacy at risk than watching their investments go down, we are selling our own privacy for money.

Yeah I am seeing a lot of this over on lbc's forum, it is highly concerning to say the least. I aint playing those silly games, my legal personality was created for my protection, it cant protect me if I don't need to claim representation because I've handed over ID with selfy etc etc...

[LordTricky]

Bumping for visibility