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 Pages: Author Topic: x^3+7=0 ?  (Read 1179 times)
Yves Cuicui
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Merit: 0   September 03, 2013, 05:16:16 PM

Given the x coordinate of a point on the EC curve, it's easy to compute one of the y coordinate.

But, given y, how can we get x? In particular does someone know a solution to x^3+7 = 0 on the secp256k1 curve?

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mustyoshi
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Merit: 250   September 04, 2013, 01:24:49 AM

It only becomes trivial to crack the equation when the same "random" number is used in subsequent transactions. Basically the same way they got into Sony's servers, it can, and has been executed on the Blockchain, a few months back some application was using the same random numbers in transactions and people were able to calculate the private key. Yves Cuicui
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Merit: 0   September 04, 2013, 10:49:05 AM

Thanks for your comment mustyoshi
My question is simply, what are the points that lies on the x axis.
Alternatively, how many are there, 1 or 3? johoe
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Activity: 217
Merit: 160  September 04, 2013, 11:05:29 AM

It shouldn't be too difficult to compute the cubic-root modulo p. There are at most three solution, but I'm not sure if there are always three solutions.

The idea for square root is the following.  For every number x^p = x (mod p), hence x^(p+1) = x^2 (mod p), hence x^((p+1)/2) = x (mod p) and x^((p+1)/4) = sqrt(x) (mod p) is one of the two square roots.  The other is obtained by negation.

For cubic roots a similar approach should work.  If (p+1) is divisible by three then x^(p+1)/6 is a cubic root (I'm too lazy to check if this is the case).  There should be a general way to find a cubic root for any prime p. Donations to 1CF62UFWXiKqFUmgQMUby9DpEW5LXjypU3
jackjack
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Activity: 1176
Merit: 1079 May Bitcoin be touched by his Noodly Appendage  September 04, 2013, 11:06:44 AM

It shouldn't be too difficult to compute the cubic-root modulo p. There are at most three solution, but I'm not sure if there are always three solutions.

The idea for square root is the following.  For every number x^p = x (mod p), hence x^(p+1) = x^2 (mod p), hence x^((p+1)/2) = x (mod p) and x^((p+1)/4) = sqrt(x) (mod p) is one of the two square roots.  The other is obtained by negation.

For cubic roots a similar approach should work.  If (p+1) is divisible by three then x^(p+1)/6 is a cubic root (I'm too lazy to check if this is the case).  There should be a general way to find a cubic root for any prime p.

I tried yesterday but no, p is not divisible by three
It's divisible by 2, 4, 8, 16 then big numbers (>1M) Own address: 19QkqAza7BHFTuoz9N8UQkryP4E9jHo4N3 - Pywallet support: 1AQDfx22pKGgXnUZFL1e4UKos3QqvRzNh5 - Bitcointalk++ script support: 1Pxeccscj1ygseTdSV1qUqQCanp2B2NMM2
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fpgaminer
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Activity: 560
Merit: 505    September 04, 2013, 11:12:53 AM

Quote
But, given y, how can we get x? In particular does someone know a solution to x^3+7 = 0 on the secp256k1 curve?
Well, it's just a finite field, so this should work:

Code:
x = modular_cube_root ((y^2 - 7) % p, p)

I used the code listed here to solve your particular example.  It returns None, so probably there isn't an x that solves the equation when y is 0. Yves Cuicui
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Activity: 18
Merit: 0   September 04, 2013, 11:37:24 AMLast edit: September 04, 2013, 12:59:20 PM by Yves Cuicui

Thanks for these ideas. I will dig in.

Quote
I used the code listed here to solve your particular example.  It returns None, so probably there isn't an x that solves the equation when y is 0.

As N is odd and all points are duals (x,y) and (x,-y), there is at least one point (x,0), so you must get one. johoe
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Activity: 217
Merit: 160  September 04, 2013, 01:30:39 PM

There is always the point at infinity (the neutral element of the elliptic curve group).  This explains why the total number of points is odd if there is no solution for y=0. Donations to 1CF62UFWXiKqFUmgQMUby9DpEW5LXjypU3
Yves Cuicui
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Activity: 18
Merit: 0   September 04, 2013, 02:20:51 PM

Shame on me  Yves Cuicui
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Activity: 18
Merit: 0   February 23, 2014, 10:07:16 PM

This just to finalize this topic.

Because P=9xu+7, if a cubic root exists it can be computed by r1=a^((P+2)/9).
The other two solutions are:
r2=0x3fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffbfffff0c . r1
r3=0x1c71c71c71c71c71c71c71c71c71c71c71c71c71c71c71c71c71c71c555554e9 . r1

Then it is easy to see that -7 has no cubic root because ((-7)^((P+2)/9))^3 <> -7

Then there is no points with y=0

my 2 cents
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