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Author Topic: SPACEX FALCON HEAVY TEST LAUNCH  (Read 204 times)
Vod
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February 07, 2018, 12:22:25 PM
 #21

I would also be cautious about assuming that radio waves would be used by such an advanced civilization. They could very well be using different frequencies. But that's overall an interesting point that I haven't really thought of yet.

What if we haven't found any other civilizations because they don't broadcast anything that we would search for into space? That combined with the tiny bit of universe that we have even attempted of exploring "in detail" so far further decreases the chances of finding anything.

When I said radio waves, I meant any kind of wave that can propagate long distances....  No matter how advanced your civilization is, you still need to use a wave that vibrates at a certain frequency.  We can detect that.

I don't know how a civilization could advance technologically without discovering waves... it is the basic means of long distance communication (except for quantum teleportation, which by theory is limited in the amount of information you can send instantly).

I agree with you that we have listened to only a small part of our galaxy.  But I believe if life formed here, it formed in a trillion other places around the universe.  Chances are one of those civilizations is within one hundred light years from us, so we could detect something in the small amount of time we have been listening.

That being said, if a civilization was even 200 years ahead of us, they would have moved past waves for communication (like we do now with fibre) and would be silent and invisible to us.   Chances are, if at least one civilization like this exists, they are a lot more than 200 years ahead of us. 

We could have intelligent neighbours less than a dozen years away, who communicate in the way our internet does - point to point.

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February 07, 2018, 12:39:14 PM
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 #22

I would also be cautious about assuming that radio waves would be used by such an advanced civilization. They could very well be using different frequencies. But that's overall an interesting point that I haven't really thought of yet.

What if we haven't found any other civilizations because they don't broadcast anything that we would search for into space? That combined with the tiny bit of universe that we have even attempted of exploring "in detail" so far further decreases the chances of finding anything.

When I said radio waves, I meant any kind of wave that can propagate long distances....  No matter how advanced your civilization is, you still need to use a wave that vibrates at a certain frequency.  We can detect that.

I don't know how a civilization could advance technologically without discovering waves... it is the basic means of long distance communication (except for quantum teleportation, which by theory is limited in the amount of information you can send instantly).

I agree with you that we have listened to only a small part of our galaxy.  But I believe if life formed here, it formed in a trillion other places around the universe.  Chances are one of those civilizations is within one hundred light years from us, so we could detect something in the small amount of time we have been listening.

That being said, if a civilization was even 200 years ahead of us, they would have moved past waves for communication (like we do now with fibre) and would be silent and invisible to us.   Chances are, if at least one civilization like this exists, they are a lot more than 200 years ahead of us. 

We could have intelligent neighbours less than a dozen years away, who communicate in the way our internet does - point to point.
I'm not sure to what extent the frequency matters while "scanning" the universe though. If a civilization used a frequency that we dismiss as inconspicuous they could've slipped our attention while in plain sight.

And I agree with the notion that life is all around the universe. I am ~99% leaning towards believing that the universe is infinite in size and that there's any number of life out there. But in such a universe there's also going to be any number of civilizations that have yet to find any life other than them, as well as any number of civilizations that will either never find any life or simply be convinced that none exists.

Weren't we deliberately sending out signals to try and contact or attract the attention of aliens by the way? Although even in that case, I don't think it would be possible for us to cover the whole globe and to send a signal into all directions simultaneously, which has a compounding effect by distance travelled of the signal. The more I think about this the more absurd the idea of finding any civilization becomes. There seem to be a ton of factors that could make finding life extremely difficult even "close by".
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February 07, 2018, 12:52:39 PM
 #23

Elon Musk is a liar and a fraud, SpaceX is a hoax.
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February 07, 2018, 12:55:16 PM
 #24

Elon Musk is a liar and a fraud, SpaceX is a hoax.
And earth is flat and space doesn't exist.
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February 07, 2018, 01:01:01 PM
 #25

Elon Musk is a liar and a fraud, SpaceX is a hoax.

Once you understand why you lie, you'll understand gravity.  Smiley


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February 07, 2018, 01:09:10 PM
 #26

^^^ Cupping Musk's balls are we?


I have no problem outing gravity as the bullshit theory that it is BTW.
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February 07, 2018, 01:13:07 PM
 #27

I have no problem outing gravity as the bullshit theory that it is BTW.

I am reading a book about anti-gravity right now.   I can't put it down!   

I wondered why the baseball was getting bigger.... then it hit me!

You believe in gravity, liar.   It keeps your fat ass in a proportional position for your fingers to touch the keyboard.  Smiley

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February 07, 2018, 05:10:20 PM
 #28

Oh my god, what a landing. They programmed all that so nicely. The future is here Cheesy.
Thanks for sharing.
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February 07, 2018, 07:35:07 PM
 #29

Oh my god, what a landing. They programmed all that so nicely. The future is here Cheesy.
Thanks for sharing.

Not all.  One of the rockets (a NEW one!) did not return to the landing pad.  Sad

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February 07, 2018, 07:42:52 PM
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 #30

I like the way this is put by Neil deGrasse Tyson.

It really explains how tough it would be for us to find intelligent life in the universe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sDtbTsmJcE

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February 07, 2018, 08:04:05 PM
 #31

I like the way this is put by Neil deGrasse Tyson.

It really explains how tough it would be for us to find intelligent life in the universe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sDtbTsmJcE

Excellent video.  Thank you!

Now I have to watch his 11:00 video on UFOs.  Sad

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February 07, 2018, 08:05:19 PM
 #32

Why is everybody talking about Elon Musk, like he built his rocket alone by himself. He sure is a great guy, but SpaceX is company with over 60 000 people.
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February 07, 2018, 08:09:29 PM
 #33

Why is everybody talking about Elon Musk, like he built his rocket alone by himself. He sure is a great guy, but SpaceX is company with over 60 000 people.

The same reason people talk about Bill Gates instead of Microsoft.

It takes a leader to make anything happen.

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February 07, 2018, 08:11:44 PM
 #34

Why is everybody talking about Elon Musk, like he built his rocket alone by himself. He sure is a great guy, but SpaceX is company with over 60 000 people.

The same reason people talk about Bill Gates instead of Microsoft.

It takes a leader to make anything happen.

Case and point.

You need the Vision to get the company where it needs to go.

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February 07, 2018, 08:24:20 PM
 #35

I like the way this is put by Neil deGrasse Tyson.

It really explains how tough it would be for us to find intelligent life in the universe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sDtbTsmJcE

Excellent video.  Thank you!

Now I have to watch his 11:00 video on UFOs.  Sad

Yeah, that is an awesome video.

But, it definitely puts stuff into perspective.

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February 08, 2018, 01:31:07 AM
 #36

Oh my god, what a landing. They programmed all that so nicely. The future is here Cheesy.
Thanks for sharing.

Not all.  One of the rockets (a NEW one!) did not return to the landing pad.  Sad

It's a great technology that rockets are reusable with SpaceX.
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February 08, 2018, 01:35:36 AM
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 #37

One thing it proved to the naysayers that the earth is indeed round, and not flat...

If there was anyone who legitimately believed the earth was flat, this wouldn't change their mind  Cheesy

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February 08, 2018, 01:40:17 AM
 #38

I love this man. Can't wait to retire on Mars in a few decades. Hope the internet will be figured out to keep a realtime supply of earth memes.

Yes, we just need to figure out instantaneous communication like in Speaker for the Dead.

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February 08, 2018, 06:26:49 AM
 #39

By that logic, the galaxy should be partly colonized already by civilizations that have been around longer than we have.  We're orbiting a second generation star, so every being that evolved under the first generation stars should be billions of years ahead of us in technology, right?
That would require a civilization to actually have existed for a long enough time to be millions/billions of years ahead of us without having gone extinct. They would also have to exist in sufficient proximity of us.

Who knows how many galaxies (if any) are already partially or even fully colonized, but simply beyond our reach? We can only see as far as the light allows us to. And if the actual, rather than just the observable, universe is actually expanding faster than light that would make it virtually impossible to even attempt reaching some places. Given the potentially infinite size of the universe it seems potentially infinitely improbable for such a civilization not to exist in some place. But we know for fact that we haven't really seen shit yet. Maybe we got lucky and we're the first to get a shot, or maybe we're unlucky and just happened to be dropped in a place with nobody else close by.

The upper speed of light and hence travel for all matter in the forms currently accessible to us means we simply cannot travel to or even observe the expanses of universe. Like Vod said, its sobering and completely disappointing to realize that. But we don't want that right.

We want a scenario where these travels and observations are possible. That leaves one possibility. We as a civilization will need to to exist in a different form. A form where the laws of this "present matter" world don't apply. It becomes almost metaphysical and goes into the realm of spirituality but the more i think of it, the more i am convinced that there needs to be higher "planes of existence" where these physical laws that limit us to "speed of light" won't apply.

Like Dr. Manhattan from the Watchmen..Smiley

Given that there is a possibility to move to such a plane of existence, any civilization would probably need to exist for millions of years before thats possible. Its clear that we cannot exist on planet earth for millions of years. But maybe if we branch out and terraform enough planetary bodies, we can hope to survive long enough and become the super sentient beings that would be capable of Inter-galactic travel. So Elon is the first pioneer of this endeavour and Mars would be our first stop on this long road.

This all sounds completely mad but I don't see any other way that its possible..

Ohh and I am glad that a topic i started finally got some traction. Thanks to you Vod and BTCMillionaire..👍..I am writing this on a phone. Hope the formatting doesn't come out all trashy.
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February 08, 2018, 08:50:06 AM
 #40


That would require a civilization to actually have existed for a long enough time to be millions/billions of years ahead of us without having gone extinct. They would also have to exist in sufficient proximity of us...The upper speed of light and hence travel for all matter in the forms currently accessible to us means we simply cannot travel to or even observe the expanses of universe...physical laws that limit us to "speed of light" won't apply...
Given that there is a possibility to move to such a plane of existence, any civilization would probably need to exist for millions of years before thats possible...
[/quote]

To say that our current knowledge of conveniently termed "Laws of Physics" is incomplete would be an understatement by large.
Creation of miniature wormholes is currently an impasse but may not be so in near to mid term future - human colony on Mars would need to communicate with Earth in real-time and if microscopic wormholes connect communication centers on both end we would already have faster-than-light (FTL) communication.

Ambition to populate nearby planets is a precursor to acquiring FTL communication capability and Elon Musk is a man symbolizing that whole idea.
Imagine if there is a sort of galactic inter-planetary Internet and we just need to tune in by becoming FTL capable species.
On the other hand all that we call "matter" can be reduced to information, and if you can stream that information it may be recomposed as "matter" on the other end.

Doors of Knowledge are wide open, we just need to be ambitious and brave enough to step through and further promote our own brand "Made in Earth by Humans".
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