[WANT] 2 BTC [PUTTING UP] 3.25 BTC Collateral [PAY] $500 USD [TERM] 30 DAYS

[Ggddtt]

Want: 3 x .66666 Bitcoin payments equaling 2 Bitcoin
Reason:  To increase holdings of certain altcoins for 30 days.
Collateral: 170,000 Tronix (TRX), 581 Icon (ICX), 28,260 Verge (XVG) (a sum of ~1.25 BTC current value)  PLUS all coins purchased through lended bitcoin

I will sign a bitcoin address stating my transfer of assets to lender's addresses.  I will then be taking each .666 Bitcoin payment one at a time to buy a mixture of these three coins and sending to lender for each payment.

This will result in the lender having ~3.25 BTC worth of collateral.  At the end of the term [maximum 30 days from loan given], a trusted escrow will be given 2 Bitcoin + $500 USD for interest (escrow fees covered by me).  The lender will send all altcoin holdings back to me after signing the same bitcoin address providing receiving addresses, and escrow will release payment to lender upon confirmation of receiving.

Lender must keep the coins in their native currency.  If for any reason, the value of collateral slips into a dangerous period where the value is not more than 120% of the value, the lender will be given Bitcoin towards payment to maintain the ratio.  The lender must not attempt to sell.


Trusted lenders only. 

[1714863801]

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[magneto]

I’m quite unsure as to what you mean. It all seems very complicated and I’m sure that you can explain this much better.

But what I do see is that you’re wanting the lender to not liquidate your altcoins which is pretty much not going to happen. If you were to take out a loan from anyone the lender will have to liquidate the collateral if it goes under a certain amount that is predetermined. If collateral slips below 100% and you don’t pay back then it’s a huge risk for the lender

PM me with a simplified version of this and I’ll get back to you.

[Ggddtt]

I’m quite unsure as to what you mean. It all seems very complicated and I’m sure that you can explain this much better.

But what I do see is that you’re wanting the lender to not liquidate your altcoins which is pretty much not going to happen. If you were to take out a loan from anyone the lender will have to liquidate the collateral if it goes under a certain amount that is predetermined. If collateral slips below 100% and you don’t pay back then it’s a huge risk for the lender

PM me with a simplified version of this and I’ll get back to you.

I'll try to simplify.

The 2 Bitcoin will be used to immediately buy the same coins.  These coins will be sent to the lender (or escrow) after purchase.  

Therefore, the lender will have lent out 2 Bitcoin but be holding ~3.25 Bitcoin worth of these altcoins as collateral (~182%).  

Should the value of the altcoins in Bitcoin value, slip from ~182% to ~120% of the value (2.4 Bitcoin), I will be giving Bitcoin to the lender to pay down the loan amount so that the ratio of collateral stays above.  I do not, at any costs, want the altcoins to be liquidated unless the ratio is completely broken through.

[ncsupanda]

I’m quite unsure as to what you mean. It all seems very complicated and I’m sure that you can explain this much better.

But what I do see is that you’re wanting the lender to not liquidate your altcoins which is pretty much not going to happen. If you were to take out a loan from anyone the lender will have to liquidate the collateral if it goes under a certain amount that is predetermined. If collateral slips below 100% and you don’t pay back then it’s a huge risk for the lender

PM me with a simplified version of this and I’ll get back to you.

-snip-

The 2 Bitcoin will be used to immediately buy the same coins.  These coins will be sent to the lender (or escrow) after purchase.  

Therefore, the lender will have lent out 2 Bitcoin but be holding ~3.25 Bitcoin worth of these altcoins as collateral (~182%).  

-snip-

Why would I give you 2 BTC to go and purchase altcoins and then give me altcoins? If I want to buy altcoins, why wouldn't I just go purchase them myself and cut you out?
Where is the value add? This makes no sense.

[EcuaMobi]

Why would I give you 2 BTC to go and purchase altcoins and then give me altcoins? If I want to buy altcoins, why wouldn't I just go purchase them myself and cut you out?
Where is the value add? This makes no sense.

Because then you wouldn't have any collateral and therefore you'd have all the risk instead of the OP. As proposed, the OP would risk everything and also have all the benefits if it works (minus $500). It seems you didn't read OP or didn't understand it.


The only thing you need to say explicitly Ggddtt: if the collateral decreases in value and you fail to send more BTC to keep it at more than 120% then there must be a condition to liquidate the collateral while it's still above 100%. The lender and you need to agree on the thresholds (ex: 120% and 108%) and time limit to send more BTC.

You can also make it a little more simple if the lender (if trusted, otherwise the escrow) directly buys the altcoins you say and keeps them, instead of sending the BTC to you.

[Ggddtt]

Why would I give you 2 BTC to go and purchase altcoins and then give me altcoins? If I want to buy altcoins, why wouldn't I just go purchase them myself and cut you out?
Where is the value add? This makes no sense.

Because then you wouldn't have any collateral and therefore you'd have all the risk instead of the OP. As proposed, the OP would risk everything and also have all the benefits if it works (minus $500). It seems you didn't read OP or didn't understand it.


The only thing you need to say explicitly Ggddtt: if the collateral decreases in value and you fail to send more BTC to keep it at more than 120% then there must be a condition to liquidate the collateral while it's still above 100%. The lender and you need to agree on the thresholds (ex: 120% and 108%) and time limit to send more BTC.

You can also make it a little more simple if the lender (if trusted, otherwise the escrow) directly buys the altcoins you say and keeps them, instead of sending the BTC to you.

Yes, this is right.  If I fail to give Bitcoin to maintain the ratio within a reasonable amount of time and the value has dropped below 120%, the lender/escrow has the right to liquidate.

I just don't want the lender to panic when it's 130% or something and not give me any time or chance to be able to top it off so that the altcoins do not get sold.

I am also comfortable with the lender or escrow directly purchasing the altcoin.  That is probably the better method actually.

[alia]

Why would I give you 2 BTC to go and purchase altcoins and then give me altcoins? If I want to buy altcoins, why wouldn't I just go purchase them myself and cut you out?
Where is the value add? This makes no sense.

Because then you wouldn't have any collateral and therefore you'd have all the risk instead of the OP. As proposed, the OP would risk everything and also have all the benefits if it works (minus $500). It seems you didn't read OP or didn't understand it.


The only thing you need to say explicitly Ggddtt: if the collateral decreases in value and you fail to send more BTC to keep it at more than 120% then there must be a condition to liquidate the collateral while it's still above 100%. The lender and you need to agree on the thresholds (ex: 120% and 108%) and time limit to send more BTC.

You can also make it a little more simple if the lender (if trusted, otherwise the escrow) directly buys the altcoins you say and keeps them, instead of sending the BTC to you.

Yes, this is right.  If I fail to give Bitcoin to maintain the ratio within a reasonable amount of time and the value has dropped below 120%, the lender/escrow has the right to liquidate.

I just don't want the lender to panic when it's 130% or something and not give me any time or chance to be able to top it off so that the altcoins do not get sold.

I am also comfortable with the lender or escrow directly purchasing the altcoin.  That is probably the better method actually.

I can fill this loan in its entirety, and we can use a trusted escrow for all trades. My only condition is, if the value drops under 120% and you don't message me to top it up, I'll liquidate your holdings and have your collateral returned

[ncsupanda]

Why would I give you 2 BTC to go and purchase altcoins and then give me altcoins? If I want to buy altcoins, why wouldn't I just go purchase them myself and cut you out?
Where is the value add? This makes no sense.

Because then you wouldn't have any collateral and therefore you'd have all the risk instead of the OP. As proposed, the OP would risk everything and also have all the benefits if it works (minus $500). It seems you didn't read OP or didn't understand it.


The only thing you need to say explicitly Ggddtt: if the collateral decreases in value and you fail to send more BTC to keep it at more than 120% then there must be a condition to liquidate the collateral while it's still above 100%. The lender and you need to agree on the thresholds (ex: 120% and 108%) and time limit to send more BTC.

You can also make it a little more simple if the lender (if trusted, otherwise the escrow) directly buys the altcoins you say and keeps them, instead of sending the BTC to you.

You're right, I misunderstood - that's what I get for browsing while at work. I agree wholeheartedly with your last statement, due to the volatility. Good luck.

[Ggddtt]

Why would I give you 2 BTC to go and purchase altcoins and then give me altcoins? If I want to buy altcoins, why wouldn't I just go purchase them myself and cut you out?
Where is the value add? This makes no sense.

Because then you wouldn't have any collateral and therefore you'd have all the risk instead of the OP. As proposed, the OP would risk everything and also have all the benefits if it works (minus $500). It seems you didn't read OP or didn't understand it.


The only thing you need to say explicitly Ggddtt: if the collateral decreases in value and you fail to send more BTC to keep it at more than 120% then there must be a condition to liquidate the collateral while it's still above 100%. The lender and you need to agree on the thresholds (ex: 120% and 108%) and time limit to send more BTC.

You can also make it a little more simple if the lender (if trusted, otherwise the escrow) directly buys the altcoins you say and keeps them, instead of sending the BTC to you.

Yes, this is right.  If I fail to give Bitcoin to maintain the ratio within a reasonable amount of time and the value has dropped below 120%, the lender/escrow has the right to liquidate.

I just don't want the lender to panic when it's 130% or something and not give me any time or chance to be able to top it off so that the altcoins do not get sold.

I am also comfortable with the lender or escrow directly purchasing the altcoin.  That is probably the better method actually.

I can fill this loan in its entirety, and we can use a trusted escrow for all trades. My only condition is, if the value drops under 120% and you don't message me to top it up, I'll liquidate your holdings and have your collateral returned

Sent a message to you and an available escrow.  Will ask another escrow if he declines.

[Ggddtt]

Offer is still open to other lenders. 

[Parodium]

I can fill this loan for $750 interest. But if the collateral falls below 120% of loan amount, then I'll sell them to ensure I don't get screwed by a crash.

[Hatcher]

I can do this on the terms that have already been established.

[AB de Royse777]

If i read this correct you want to receive three payments BEFORE you put the collateral in escrow?

[DarkStar_]

If i read this correct you want to receive three payments BEFORE you put the collateral in escrow?

No, he's escrowing first and taking 1/3 of the loan at a time to increase his altcoin exposure and sending those coins to escrow as well.

[AB de Royse777]

If i read this correct you want to receive three payments BEFORE you put the collateral in escrow?

No, he's escrowing first and taking 1/3 of the loan at a time to increase his altcoin exposure and sending those coins to escrow as well.

Ok, i was kinda confused ....

Interesting deal though

[Ggddtt]

Bump.  Unless you're one of the top trusted members, the coins must be held by escrow.

Collateral is now worth 1.35 BTC, making it 3.35 BTC collateral value for 2 Bitcoin at current time.

[Parodium]

I'll have to retract my offer. Holding the coins in escrow would make it difficult to liquidate should the value fall too far. Most trusted escrows aren't exactly lightning fast to respond.

[Lone Shark]

I'll have to retract my offer. Holding the coins in escrow would make it difficult to liquidate should the value fall too far. Most trusted escrows aren't exactly lightning fast to respond.

I would agree with this too.
I can do the loan if you agree to:

1. Non-escrow loan
2. Not USD pegged interest, but in BTC of 10%/month (compounded monthly)

-AND-

A. If the collateral value drops below 120%, you will be informed of the drop and you have 3 options:
 1. Wait (till it goes back up or until it gets liquidated)
 2. Repay loan + interest accrued and collateral will be returned
 3. Send more collateral to return collateral value to at least 125%
B. Liquidation of the collateral will start at 113% of the loan amount + accrued interest (interest is computed in advance). However, borrower shall still be liable for deficiency after liquidation.
C. In case the collateral's value dips below the liquidation point stated in subsection B, the collateral shall be forfeited without notice however any deficiency shall still be chargeable to borrower. (In case it dips below 107% and comes back up above that value, it is still considered forfeited)
D. Payment of interest shall be on a monthly basis. If not paid on time, it will be deducted against the collateral hence collateral value will go down.
E. Interest shall be based on outstanding loan amount. This will be a diminishing type of loan.
F. This loan is based on BTC.
G. Any movement cost of the collateral (miner's fee or whatever fees incurred in storing, receiving and returning collateral) shall be deducted from the collateral.
H. The collateral can neither be exchanged for another altcoin nor be traded (buy and sell the collateral).
I. Option: The collateral may be liquidated to pay the loan at any time (subject to a 5% fee based on the proceeds or 0.002 BTC which ever is higher). In case it does not sell for the amount of the loan plus accrued interest, the deficit shall still be chargeable to borrower. Borrower may specify how the collateral will be liquidated. All cost shall be shouldered by the borrower.*
J. And all other terms and conditions stated in my lending thread found here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1820695.0

*Option stated is not available in case borrower is in delay, only BTC payment shall be accepted after repayment deadline, hence upon non-payment on due date and after three days the collateral shall be forfeited in the lender's favor.
Been out of the scene for awhile but will sign a message from old addresses if needed.

[Ggddtt]

I'll have to retract my offer. Holding the coins in escrow would make it difficult to liquidate should the value fall too far. Most trusted escrows aren't exactly lightning fast to respond.

I would agree with this too.
I can do the loan if you agree to:

1. Non-escrow loan
2. Not USD pegged interest, but in BTC of 10%/month (compounded monthly)

-AND-

A. If the collateral value drops below 120%, you will be informed of the drop and you have 3 options:
 1. Wait (till it goes back up or until it gets liquidated)
 2. Repay loan + interest accrued and collateral will be returned
 3. Send more collateral to return collateral value to at least 125%
B. Liquidation of the collateral will start at 113% of the loan amount + accrued interest (interest is computed in advance). However, borrower shall still be liable for deficiency after liquidation.
C. In case the collateral's value dips below the liquidation point stated in subsection B, the collateral shall be forfeited without notice however any deficiency shall still be chargeable to borrower. (In case it dips below 107% and comes back up above that value, it is still considered forfeited)
D. Payment of interest shall be on a monthly basis. If not paid on time, it will be deducted against the collateral hence collateral value will go down.
E. Interest shall be based on outstanding loan amount. This will be a diminishing type of loan.
F. This loan is based on BTC.
G. Any movement cost of the collateral (miner's fee or whatever fees incurred in storing, receiving and returning collateral) shall be deducted from the collateral.
H. The collateral can neither be exchanged for another altcoin nor be traded (buy and sell the collateral).
I. Option: The collateral may be liquidated to pay the loan at any time (subject to a 5% fee based on the proceeds or 0.002 BTC which ever is higher). In case it does not sell for the amount of the loan plus accrued interest, the deficit shall still be chargeable to borrower. Borrower may specify how the collateral will be liquidated. All cost shall be shouldered by the borrower.*
J. And all other terms and conditions stated in my lending thread found here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1820695.0

*Option stated is not available in case borrower is in delay, only BTC payment shall be accepted after repayment deadline, hence upon non-payment on due date and after three days the collateral shall be forfeited in the lender's favor.
Been out of the scene for awhile but will sign a message from old addresses if needed.

1. You'll need to sign an old bitcoin address.
2. Can we do 6-8% max.  10% really cuts my ROI on this.  I'd like it for 30 days (qualifying as one month).
A: Agreed
A3 is my preferred option always.

B: Agreed
C: Agreed but as long as I'm able to do A3, which I'll be available all day to do except 12AM-10AM New York Time for sleeping.  I'll start doing A3 if it shows that it's starting to dip. (EDIT: I'm always working to keep the buffer safe.  I do not want liquidation forced from a brief flash crash.)
D: Agreed
E: Agreed
F: Agreed
G: Agreed
H: Agreed
I: Do Not Agree.  Unless I'm mis-reading, I do not want you to be able to liquidate the collateral unless it falls under threshold in B.  This defeats the purpose of the loan.
J: Agreed

Term on my end, I'd like to have a public bitcoin address where I'm able to send Bitcoin to to maintain A3 if you're not available so that you do not liquidate.  All A3 payments will be returned either at end of loan or if enough of a buffer exists for collateral value to be returned.

Please let me know your thoughts, thank you.

[Ggddtt]

I'll have to retract my offer. Holding the coins in escrow would make it difficult to liquidate should the value fall too far. Most trusted escrows aren't exactly lightning fast to respond.

I would agree with this too.
I can do the loan if you agree to:

1. Non-escrow loan
2. Not USD pegged interest, but in BTC of 10%/month (compounded monthly)

-AND-

A. If the collateral value drops below 120%, you will be informed of the drop and you have 3 options:
 1. Wait (till it goes back up or until it gets liquidated)
 2. Repay loan + interest accrued and collateral will be returned
 3. Send more collateral to return collateral value to at least 125%
B. Liquidation of the collateral will start at 113% of the loan amount + accrued interest (interest is computed in advance). However, borrower shall still be liable for deficiency after liquidation.
C. In case the collateral's value dips below the liquidation point stated in subsection B, the collateral shall be forfeited without notice however any deficiency shall still be chargeable to borrower. (In case it dips below 107% and comes back up above that value, it is still considered forfeited)
D. Payment of interest shall be on a monthly basis. If not paid on time, it will be deducted against the collateral hence collateral value will go down.
E. Interest shall be based on outstanding loan amount. This will be a diminishing type of loan.
F. This loan is based on BTC.
G. Any movement cost of the collateral (miner's fee or whatever fees incurred in storing, receiving and returning collateral) shall be deducted from the collateral.
H. The collateral can neither be exchanged for another altcoin nor be traded (buy and sell the collateral).
I. Option: The collateral may be liquidated to pay the loan at any time (subject to a 5% fee based on the proceeds or 0.002 BTC which ever is higher). In case it does not sell for the amount of the loan plus accrued interest, the deficit shall still be chargeable to borrower. Borrower may specify how the collateral will be liquidated. All cost shall be shouldered by the borrower.*
J. And all other terms and conditions stated in my lending thread found here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1820695.0

*Option stated is not available in case borrower is in delay, only BTC payment shall be accepted after repayment deadline, hence upon non-payment on due date and after three days the collateral shall be forfeited in the lender's favor.
Been out of the scene for awhile but will sign a message from old addresses if needed.

1. You'll need to sign an old bitcoin address.
2. Can we do 6-8% max.  10% really cuts my ROI on this.  I'd like it for 30 days (qualifying as one month).
A: Agreed
A3 is my preferred option always.

B: Agreed
C: Agreed but as long as I'm able to do A3, which I'll be available all day to do except 12AM-10AM New York Time for sleeping.  I'll start doing A3 if it shows that it's starting to dip. (EDIT: I'm always working to keep the buffer safe.  I do not want liquidation forced from a brief flash crash.)
D: Agreed
E: Agreed
F: Agreed
G: Agreed
H: Agreed
I: Do Not Agree.  Unless I'm mis-reading, I do not want you to be able to liquidate the collateral unless it falls under threshold in B.  This defeats the purpose of the loan.
J: Agreed

Term on my end, I'd like to have a public bitcoin address where I'm able to send Bitcoin to to maintain A3 if you're not available so that you do not liquidate.  All A3 payments will be returned either at end of loan or if enough of a buffer exists for collateral value to be returned.

Please let me know your thoughts, thank you.

I think I did misread term I.

If this is my option and not your option, then yes, Agreed.