I ordered a Butterfly Rig. I wish I joined this forum a few day ago.

[crazynoggin]

Only people who are actually shipping today are asicminer.  So buy a few blades if you want.  I think Bitfury's next batch is october?  So they are 2nd up.  I wouldn't buy from anyone.  You're really better off just buying BTC and holding it in cold storage.

or trading on a market.

[dragonkid]

Actually I got good news. After reading the advice from you about calling Visa for Charge Back. I called the Visa Fraud Team. They looked at my account and told me that unfortunately it is not fraud, because I put the payment detail myself. Then she said but the payment haven't actually gone through yet. So she gave me an advice, she said she can transfer me to another department and tell them to cancel my card, and re-issue me a new card numbers, that way no one can take money out of my account, since Paypal haven't took my money yet.

So I know Paypal will be piss off. But this is the quickest way and I guess I am lucky that the money actually never left my bank account yet. I think I am going to call Paypal now and let them know. 

This will put your PayPal account in negative credit and they will try get their goons on to you and harass you with phone calls and letters.

You will have to say bye bye to PayPal if you do that, unless they charge back the money from BFL.

I just discovered this morning that my Paypal account is actually using Bank Transfer and not Visa Debit. So I cancelling my card is a waste of time. I then call Paypal, and told them that I want to get a charge back for the BFL transaction. I explained to Paypal that they are actually running a scam company and I will not get my product because of that. Then Paypal told me over the phone that they have now stop the transaction between them and BFL. So no money will come out of my Bank account and also Paypal will stop paying BFL. Now I just have to wait for 10 days, and Paypal will refund the money back into my Paypal account.

So it is good news I supposed. Except that I cancelled my Visa card for nothing.

[dragonkid]

Only people who are actually shipping today are asicminer.  So buy a few blades if you want.  I think Bitfury's next batch is october?  So they are 2nd up.  I wouldn't buy from anyone.  You're really better off just buying BTC and holding it in cold storage.

Where can I get the ASICMINER Blade from? I check on their website and there is not add cart option. http://www.asicminer.co/devices.html

I just checked Bitfury, they say their next delivery is October. But Bitfury doesn't do Paypal. Only Bank Transfer. What if I run into another problem and need a chargeback? http://www.bitfurystrikesback.com/shop/

I have checked KnCMiner, they say their next delivery is Mid-November. https://www.kncminer.com/categories/miners

Can't I trust KnCMiner?

[Meizirkki]

Why do you want a miner? Most of them are loud and ugly electricity wasters that will never pay themselves back.

[Ardenyham]

I have checked KnCMiner, they say their next delivery is Mid-November. https://www.kncminer.com/categories/miners

Can't I trust KnCMiner?

No one knows, we have to see if they send first customer batches early next month.

[dragonkid]

Why do you want a miner? Most of them are loud and ugly electricity wasters that will never pay themselves back.

I thought to mine Bitcoin you need a miner? How do you mine your bitcoin? Or do you just buy Bitcoin and sell when the price is good?

[Biffa]

Why do you want a miner? Most of them are loud and ugly electricity wasters that will never pay themselves back.

I thought to mine Bitcoin you need a miner? How do you mine your bitcoin? Or do you just buy Bitcoin and sell when the price is good?

Thats exactly what he is saying.

I think that the only way to make money from mining is if you already have a ROI on hardware and then sell it to fund your new hardware. Or if you had hardware that you used for something else and also mined on it. The last option is that you do it for fun, or to altruistically protect the network

It also depends *when* you get your hardware, you can't make money on hardware you have paid for and is depreciating rapidly and becoming less likely to earn money every day you wait for it!

Thats what people who mined on GPU's did, they either got in early enough to get their money back, or had the hardware for gaming anyway. Then many sold their GPU's to get either USB Erupters or Blades to get better performance for less power usage. Now they are selling that hardware to fund the next generation of equipment. All to try and stay ahead of the difficulty curve and hope that Bitcoin values go through the roof.

The same people may also have invested some of the bitcoins they mined into the new hardware as well, or cash.

The other option is perhaps less risky. Instead of spending $5K on a miner now that doesnt get delivered until November, spend the money on buying Bitcoins now and hope they go up in value. The fact that bitcoins need to go up in value to make the miner pay for itself means there is perhaps less risk in buying coins instead of mining them.

Of course there is risk in both.

[Meizirkki]

Why do you want a miner? Most of them are loud and ugly electricity wasters that will never pay themselves back.

I thought to mine Bitcoin you need a miner? How do you mine your bitcoin? Or do you just buy Bitcoin and sell when the price is good?

I don't mine or trade. Bitcoin is not a get-rich-quick scheme. I put my savings in bitcoins and use them to buy something every once in a while.

[dragonkid]

Thanks I understand now. Thank you very much for explaining to me. 

[jpcerf]

So what is everyone using for this GH hashrate?

Those ASIC USB will never ROI as in you will never get the money you spent on them back though mining.

GPU mining Bitcoin at this day and age will not ROI either.

[dragonkid]

So what is everyone using for this GH hashrate?

Those ASIC USB will never ROI as in you will never get the money you spent on them back though mining.

GPU mining Bitcoin at this day and age will not ROI either.

I think from what I gather from this thread is to get ASICMiner Blade (Not ASICMiner USB Erupter) or BitFury. I think out of these two, I might get ASICMiner Blade which is 13GH/s since I can pay by Paypal. That BitFury doesn't accept Paypal, only Bitpay or Direct Transfer, so much more risky if they don't deliver the good. Since you can't ask for Charge Back.

I am also waiting till there is news for the first batch of KnCMiner. I think this one is what I might get if they do deliver soon. So I am going to wait for November to see if anyone got their shipment.

[Magazine]

So what is everyone using for this GH hashrate?

Those ASIC USB will never ROI as in you will never get the money you spent on them back though mining.

GPU mining Bitcoin at this day and age will not ROI either.

I think from what I gather from this thread is to get ASICMiner Blade (Not ASICMiner USB Erupter) or BitFury. I think out of these two, I might get ASICMiner Blade which is 13GH/s since I can pay by Paypal. That BitFury doesn't accept Paypal, only Bitpay or Direct Transfer, so much more risky if they don't deliver the good. Since you can't ask for Charge Back.

I am also waiting till there is news for the first batch of KnCMiner. I think this one is what I might get if they do deliver soon. So I am going to wait for November to see if anyone got their shipment.

If you wait and wait by the time you get around to ordering your unit it will be old news and the new units will be around the corner, you need to get in first with ASIC.

[acebmxer2]

Don't think BFL will easily refund your payment. You have to force them. I'll suggest you to make dispute on paypal.

[Hoofprint]

I almost fell for the BFL scam after seeing an BFL advert on this forum. Glad i checked over in the custom hardware section first 

[SgtSpike]

BFL sells cheap hardware and ships late.
Avalon sells expensive hardware and ships late.
ASICMiner sells expensive hardware and ships on time.
No other companies have actually delivered anything (that I am aware of), so I would definitely not pre-order from them.

So, you have a choice between cheap and a long wait, or expensive and a short wait.  Neither option looks particularly good IMO.

[dragonkid]

Don't think BFL will easily refund your payment. You have to force them. I'll suggest you to make dispute on paypal.

I have escalated this to Paypal, and I will get my refund within 10 days into my Paypal account. Paypal has freeze the transaction so actually BFL don't have my money or Paypal's money. Paypal don't have my money either. It is just a transaction in my Paypal account, which they told me they will remove in 10 days time.

[Magazine]

Don't think BFL will easily refund your payment. You have to force them. I'll suggest you to make dispute on paypal.

I have escalated this to Paypal, and I will get my refund within 10 days into my Paypal account. Paypal has freeze the transaction so actually BFL don't have my money or Paypal's money. Paypal don't have my money either. It is just a transaction in my Paypal account, which they told me they will remove in 10 days time.

If you move the money from your bank account to another account PayPal can't take it then but you will get hit with a bounced Direct Debit fee.

[dudeofthestick]

Ask for refund right now. You have 40 days to do it if you paid with PayPal. If they reject to refund, open a dispute in Paypal and call paypal customer support. It works.

After 40 days, I had to go to the Online Fraud Police. Nothing happened yet... and probably ever...

You will have something similar in the UK for sure. They are scammers.

[dragonkid]

Ask for refund right now. You have 40 days to do it if you paid with PayPal. If they reject to refund, open a dispute in Paypal and call paypal customer support. It works.

Paypal told me they will clear the BFL transaction in my Paypal account in 10 days time. I have already contacted the Paypal customer support, they said I don't need to do anything, in 10 days time. The BFL transaction will be remove from my account. And since they have freeze the payment. BFL don't have my money or Paypal's money. Paypal will not take money from my account either.

[Frizz23]