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Author Topic: Bitcoin's immunity to government action  (Read 12383 times)
MoonShadow
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January 23, 2011, 07:31:47 PM
 #21

Iceland is an ideal choice.  Not only do they produce a majority of their (non-transport) energy needs from geo-thermal, they have a year round heat demand.  Their own currency isn't particularly well accepted elsewhere, either.  It would be, in many ways, good for the population of Iceland to embrace Bitcoins.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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Bitcoin mining is now a specialized and very risky industry, just like gold mining. Amateur miners are unlikely to make much money, and may even lose money. Bitcoin is much more than just mining, though!
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bitdragon
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January 23, 2011, 08:44:57 PM
 #22

it seems the Icelandic stock market is handled by Nasdaq? That doesn't seem too appealing..
That would give it one hell of a publicity albeit focusing on the investment speculative part rather than used as medium of exchange for goods and services- All venues need to be considered-

How it starts will surprise us all probably, but it's going to happen one way or another and with or without bitcoin-

What is your view by starting at the bottom- those who really need a change. Due to the fabricated crisis in 2008- previously well off  families ended up queuing at the food bank to feed their family. One such organisation is Icelandic Aid to Families Organisation it seems.

Donations in BTC could be made to this organisation and/or Vladimir to setup one hell of a mining operation there.
Families then, or their representative, come get some food along with a  100BTC and a well written pamphlet in English and Icelandic.

On a similar note, I always wondered, when there is 500K people newly unemployed in a country such as the US; surely among them there must be a whole range of services and goods that can be exchanged rather than all lining up at the Job Office.

Thus, there needs be a bulletin board listing all the services and goods needed and all those offered. Linking the two allows for an economic echange and a Bitcoin transaction.

Being person to person, and at the beginning on a small scale, allows trust to work as well to facilitate the exchange and tracking-


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January 23, 2011, 08:59:45 PM
 #23

it seems the Icelandic stock market is handled by Nasdaq? That doesn't seem too appealing..
That would give it one hell of a publicity albeit focusing on the investment speculative part rather than used as medium of exchange for goods and services- All venues need to be considered-
I have seen that as well. Sometimes one must have visions and I agree that this is a difficult one.


What is your view by starting at the bottom- those who really need a change. Due to the fabricated crisis in 2008- previously well off  families ended up queuing at the food bank to feed their family.
That was also my point with saying that the Iceland inhabitants should get BTC in their hands (starting bottom up).

One such organisation is Icelandic Aid to Families Organisation it seems.
This is a promising idea.
The best would be to find a person in Iceland as Bitcoin ambassador who could do the local work.

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bitdragon
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January 23, 2011, 09:17:21 PM
 #24


Bjork seems quite an active person in Iceland.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/23/bjork-protests-geothermal_n_810674.html
That is quite something, selling a geothermal sustainable energy to a foreign company.
Bjork presented a petition signed by 47K people. 1/6 of the population, that's pretty good.


She started as well a fund: in 2008-
"
(http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/12/23/bjork-icelandic-singer-and-venture-capitalist/)
Audur Capital, a venture capital firm in Reykjavik, Iceland, has started its second fund, named Bjork, with 100 million Icelandic kronur (about $816,330) from Bjork and the firm. They are raising more money now, with the goal of closing the fund in March.

The Bjork fund will invest in early-stage businesses concentrating on green technology, with the goal of helping spur a recovery of Iceland’s economy, which was devastated by a financial crisis this fall.
"

Maybe that is a bit too much a public figure? Quite like the idea, I must say. Gives me bitcoin bumps;

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January 23, 2011, 09:22:06 PM
 #25

+1
Why not trying with Bjork.

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MoonShadow
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January 23, 2011, 10:32:55 PM
 #26

It's decided then, we shall focus our advocacy upon Icelanders.  Are there any bitcoiners from Iceland already?  The rule of six degrees of separation says that someone in this forum will have some kind of indirect access to Bjork, the trick is discovering who that might be.  If there is an Icelander in the forum, that would likely be the person with the best personal access, considering the size of the Icelandic population is smaller than a mid sized American city.  All it might require is a phone call, an appointment and a bus ride to make this happen.

Let's not be subversive, however.  Whoever ends up making this pitch also needs to make it clear that the existing bitcoiners stand to gain if Bitcoin takes off in Iceland.  This should not be presented as an entirely altruistic enterprise.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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January 23, 2011, 10:35:32 PM
 #27

Wouldnt mind locating one of these http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2884.0  in a hackerspace in iceland to access the cheap power and support people most likely to accept bitcoin.
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January 23, 2011, 10:41:18 PM
 #28

Based on a quick google search, there doesn't seem to be an active makerspace/hakerspace in Iceland.  However, I'm sure that there is something that we could work with.  Even a GNU/Linux users group would a good lead.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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January 23, 2011, 10:43:18 PM
 #29

It's decided then, we shall focus our advocacy upon Icelanders.  Are there any bitcoiners from Iceland already?  The rule of six degrees of separation says that someone in this forum will have some kind of indirect access to Bjork, the trick is discovering who that might be.  If there is an Icelander in the forum, that would likely be the person with the best personal access, considering the size of the Icelandic population is smaller than a mid sized American city.  All it might require is a phone call, an appointment and a bus ride to make this happen.

Let's not be subversive, however.  Whoever ends up making this pitch also needs to make it clear that the existing bitcoiners stand to gain if Bitcoin takes off in Iceland.  This should not be presented as an entirely altruistic enterprise.

+1 agreed
and also agreed that we need to be 100% honest

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January 23, 2011, 10:49:51 PM
 #30

Found some organizations in Iceland:



Among the many social, professional, and service organizations in Iceland are the Chamber of Commerce, the YMCA and YWCA, the Salvation Army, the Red Cross, the Iceland Sport Association, the Federation of Icelandic Cooperative Societies, lodges of the Order of the Good Templar (temperance societies), Kiwanis, the Lion's Club, the Employers' Federation, the Association of Steam Trawler Owners, and the Union of Icelandic Fish Producers.

Notable national youth organizations include the Federation of Young Progressives, Independence Party Youth Organization, National Council of Icelandic Youth, National Union of Icelandic Students, Social Democratic Youth Federation, Youth Movement of the People's Alliance, and The Icelandic Boy and Girl Scouts Association.

Learned societies include the Icelandic Archaeological Society, the Icelandic Historical Society, the Icelandic Literary Society, the Music Society, the Icelandic Natural History Society, and the Agricultural Association. There are also the Icelandic Artists' Association, the Iceland Association of Pictorial Artists, the Icelandic Actors' Association, the Icelandic Musicians' Association, the Icelandic Composers' Society, the Icelandic Architects' Association, and the Icelandic Writers' Association. Among other cultural organizations are the Icelandic-American Society, the Danish Society, the Danish-Icelandic Society, the Anglo-Icelandic Society, the Alliance Française, the Nordic Society, and the Union of Women's Societies.


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January 23, 2011, 10:56:11 PM
 #31

Based on a quick google search, there doesn't seem to be an active makerspace/hakerspace in Iceland.  However, I'm sure that there is something that we could work with.  Even a GNU/Linux users group would a good lead.

yes there is...

http://hakkavelin.is/

Found this list here - http://hackerspaces.org/wiki/List_of_Hacker_Spaces


So there you go....our first point of contact?

P.S. looks like they are looking for donations for an arduino hackerthon. A bitcoin sponsorship opportunity ?

http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=144994722224328
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January 23, 2011, 11:03:43 PM
 #32

You guys are trying to resurrect medieval Iceland or something?

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January 23, 2011, 11:13:27 PM
 #33

You guys are trying to resurrect medieval Iceland or something?
Iceland is one of the most modern countries ( according to google searches...)
lets see if this is true
because if so they should be open to modern (bit)coins

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fabianhjr
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January 23, 2011, 11:28:59 PM
 #34

Something to note is that they are also the country which is the nearest(or at least one of the nearest) to direct democracy. If people can see the value of Bitcoin it will be easier for the government to accept as the national currency.

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January 24, 2011, 02:03:31 AM
 #35

It's decided then, we shall focus our advocacy upon Icelanders.  Are there any bitcoiners from Iceland already?  The rule of six degrees of separation says that someone in this forum will have some kind of indirect access to Bjork, the trick is discovering who that might be.  If there is an Icelander in the forum, that would likely be the person with the best personal access, considering the size of the Icelandic population is smaller than a mid sized American city.  All it might require is a phone call, an appointment and a bus ride to make this happen.

Let's not be subversive, however.  Whoever ends up making this pitch also needs to make it clear that the existing bitcoiners stand to gain if Bitcoin takes off in Iceland.  This should not be presented as an entirely altruistic enterprise.

I knew an Icelandic guy in college and I remember him mentioning some sort of contact with Bjork. It's a rather small country. I'm horrible at keeping in touch with people, but this is a good excuse. I'll report back on this sometime...

He's also a fantastic graphic artist, so perhaps he could commission extra work and take payment in BTC.

Something to note is that they are also the country which is the nearest(or at least one of the nearest) to direct democracy. If people can see the value of Bitcoin it will be easier for the government to accept as the national currency.

Democracy isn't a good thing IMO. The actual two positives I see are Iceland's history of a stable stateless order, and that they've passed legislation towards making the country a media "safe haven". I forget the specifics of how the latter works offhand, but it's a positive if anything.

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January 24, 2011, 02:37:42 AM
 #36

I love Iceland; if it wasn't in such a bad economical shape I would probably move there.

Bitalo.com coming soon!

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January 24, 2011, 06:55:51 AM
 #37


This is awesome.  I love this forum.  I think my former econ teacher met the President of Iceland at an economics conference.  It's only a 2-degree separation but rather tenuous.  I'll have to check up on it. 
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January 24, 2011, 08:12:17 AM
 #38

I love Iceland; if it wasn't in such a bad economical shape I would probably move there.

I read somewhere that they are recovering from the crisis. The government didn't try to save failing companies.

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January 27, 2011, 05:14:38 AM
 #39

Some people will NEVER sell their bitcoin to the gov...like me! Cheesy

Me too!!! NEVER NEVER NEVER Cheesy
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January 27, 2011, 05:28:07 AM
 #40

Some people will NEVER sell their bitcoin to the gov...like me! Cheesy

Me too!!! NEVER NEVER NEVER Cheesy

I'll sell, 1BTC/state. Maybe they'll give me NJ at least.

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