PSA: Do NOT buy Bitfury BF1 USB Miner - It will not ROI.

[console_cowboy]

Looks like Barntech may end up doing another batch of miners... https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=266235.msg3139726#msg3139726

Maybe there will be even more competition in the small mining rig category.

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[HellDiverUK]

All this "It'll never give you ROI" bullshit makes the huge assumption that BTC will remain around the $120 mark.

If BTC suddenly goes up to $500, the ROI goalposts move significantly.

[Syke]

All this "It'll never give you ROI" bullshit makes the huge assumption that BTC will remain around the $120 mark.

If BTC suddenly goes up to $500, the ROI goalposts move significantly.

Then just buy some BTC directly. You'll make more profit faster that way.

[integrity42]

All this "It'll never give you ROI" bullshit makes the huge assumption that BTC will remain around the $120 mark.

If BTC suddenly goes up to $500, the ROI goalposts move significantly.

Nope. Fiat conversion rates are irrelevant to ROI. Doesn't matter if you use yen, euros, pounds or dollars.

Example:

- Current price of 1 BTC is $100.
- You spend $100 to buy a miner that will only ever return 0.4BTC to you.
- Regardless of what the price in the future is, you have lost 0.6BTC.
- Guess who has the other 0.6BTC? The ASIC manufacturer has it. And they are laughing all the way to the bank because you bought $100 (1BTC) worth of their hardware to get back 0.4BTC, when you should have just kept the 1BTC.

If you disagree with this, feel free to send me $140 right now. This is the current price of 1 BTC.

I will send you 0.4BTC back -- bad deal you say? well dont worry! -- when the prices rises you will ROI.

I will do this all day for you. Think about how silly this is for you. Then realize that buying mining hardware is the same thing.

[EskimoBob]

....
Nope. Fiat conversion rates are irrelevant to ROI. Doesn't matter if you use yen, euros, pounds or dollars.

Example:

- Current price of 1 BTC is $100.
- You spend $100 to buy a miner that will only ever return 0.4BTC to you.
- Regardless of what the price in the future is, you have lost 0.6BTC.
- Guess who has the other 0.6BTC? The ASIC manufacturer has it. And they are laughing all the way to the bank because you bought $100 (1BTC) worth of their hardware to get back 0.4BTC, when you should have just kept the 1BTC.

If you disagree with this, feel free to send me $140 right now. This is the current price of 1 BTC.

I will send you 0.4BTC back -- bad deal you say? well dont worry! -- when the prices rises you will ROI.

I will do this all day for you. Think about how silly this is for you. Then realize that buying mining hardware is the same thing.

+1
Wonderfully accurate and graphically (imaginable) pleasing example.

[bcp19]

$110+ per GH/s is bad value, even the BFL products from April were $50 per GH/s or less. The developers of the thumb would have known this in advance before they started the project.  The current market expects $20-25 per GH/s to break even.

What people forget is that Bitfury 55nm chip based miners have to get a positive ROI within 6mths or they will start making a loss at current BTC prices, the cost of electricity will be higher than the BTC they produce.

Punching the numbers into the http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/ calculator tells me at 2.1BTC the unit will make a loss of around $160, which is more than half it's purchase price. In order to make a profit BTC/USD would have to rise to over $300. In which case it would be better to just hold onto your 2.1BTC

The unit which costs you 2.1BTC will only return 1BTC before it can't cover the electricity price, therefore it should be priced at 1BTC or less.

How many hundreds of articles do we need to see showing that the math just doesn't make sense.

Bitcoin mining, in it's current form is DEAD! BTC

Bitcoin mining is far from dead.  Bitcoin profitability is in the toilet, but hey, it started out that way.

The get rich quick seekers will soon sell off their mining equipment to the altruistic who will keep the network alive.  Look at the people still mining DEVcoin.

[Buffer Overflow]

Bitcoin mining, in it's current form is DEAD! BTC

Yes, the global bitcoin hash rate is now zero.

*facepalm*

[AndrewWilliams]

Bitcoin mining, in it's current form is DEAD! BTC

Yes, the global bitcoin hash rate is now zero.

*facepalm*

If you read the countless threads on here, many people, not just myself, see a ridiculous trend of disappearing ROI.

The question now becomes, not WHEN will you hit ROI, but IF you will hit ROI on new ASIC equipment.

Now, that being said, I do have a hinkering to purchase shares in a GB (Group Buy) on a CoinTerra machine, but I do have a gut feeling about that specific machine and the manufacturing company following through and sticking to release dates.

Prove me wrong, brothers, prove me wrong.

[Buffer Overflow]

Bitcoin mining, in it's current form is DEAD! BTC

Yes, the global bitcoin hash rate is now zero.

*facepalm*

If you read the countless threads on here, many people, not just myself, see a ridiculous trend of disappearing ROI.

The question now becomes, not WHEN will you hit ROI, but IF you will hit ROI on new ASIC equipment.

That's because ASICs aren't designed for the end user to profit.
The one and only reason they exist, is to profit the manufacture. Nothing else.

[AndrewWilliams]

BufferOverflow, that is exactly my point!

The minute a business to business model fails to offer the BUYER a PROFIT, that business is finished!



Anyone in the business world knows that!


I am not going to purchase appliances to sell in my appliance store if all the manufacturers of Dishwashers and Refrigerators don't want to sell it to me at the wholesale price!




Manufacturer ---> Distributor ----> Seller
Along the way, the price roughly doubles, as it goes from manufacturer to distributor, to the store (seller). This ensures everyone involved in the process makes a profit.



ASIC manufacturers are out of their minds!!! 

[Buffer Overflow]

BufferOverflow, that is exactly my point!

The minute a business to business model fails to offer the BUYER a PROFIT, that business is finished!



Anyone in the business world knows that!


I am not going to purchase appliances to sell in my appliance store if all the manufacturers of Dishwashers and Refrigerators don't want to sell it to me at the wholesale price!




Manufacturer ---> Distributor ----> Seller
Along the way, the price roughly doubles, as it goes from manufacturer to distributor, to the store (seller). This ensures everyone involved in the process makes a profit.



ASIC manufacturers are out of their minds!!! 

Everyone in the supply chain is making profit. The end person isn't though, because they are the consumer.

Why are ASIC manufacturers out of their minds?

[AndrewWilliams]

Everyone in the supply chain is making profit. The end person isn't though, because they are the consumer.

Why are ASIC manufacturers out of their minds?

You are viewing Bitcoin miners as "consumers," when infact they are miners (laboring to make a profit). Sorry, but I am not buying an ASIC miner for the bragging rights, and I'm sure 99% of other people buying ASIC's ARE doing it to make money.



ASIC manufacturers are hanging themselves by charging too much for their hardware. They are stunting their future growth by alienating their core market.

[shields]

You are viewing Bitcoin miners as "consumers," when infact they are miners (laboring to make a profit). Sorry, but I am not buying an ASIC miner for the bragging rights, and I'm sure 99% of other people buying ASIC's ARE doing it to make money.



ASIC manufacturers are hanging themselves by charging too much for their hardware. They are stunting their future growth by alienating their core market.

It's clear from the many many threads on here that the 'consumers/miners' are incapable of doing the profitability calculations for miners, are under-estimating diff increases or are getting their miners later than expected and for one or all of these reasons are therefore buying miners at unprofitable prices. They may *intend* to make money but they are making purchases which will make a loss. They are the loser, the seller of the miner wins. Yet you say the sellers are out of their minds?