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Author Topic: [SCAM PREVENTION]Remove self-moderation for topics within the marketplace!  (Read 1318 times)
MiLkz
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February 11, 2018, 05:46:33 PM
Merited by sandy-is-fine (10), hilariousetc (5), suchmoon (2), malikusama (2), OgNasty (1), LoyceV (1), BTCforJoe (1), bill gator (1), MadZ (1), TryNinja (1), HCP (1), bolinao (1), Chris314 (1), bitperson (1)
 #1

**UPDATE: Sent PM to theymos on 2/19.

Overview:
I believe we should remove the option to self-moderate topics for certain user groups within areas of the marketplace. This can be used as an additional way to reduce and prevent scamming while allowing for further community moderation.

Some reasons for the change:
1) More and more scammers are using self-moderation as a shield to prevent users from calling out any illicit activities.
2) Moderators have always taken a stance to not get involved in the marketplace. (I am not saying it is right or wrong, just stating a fact.)
3) Threads posted in the scam accusation section can go unseen by potential victims and new users.
4) Newer users may be unaware of the trust system and unregistered users do not see it at all.

This is in no way a replacement for any of the current systems we have in play.  I am only suggesting we utilize this along with the current systems.  
ESCROW usage is, as always, key, and it is always up to the user to do their due diligence before entering any trade.  This is just another step to make it more fool proof.

NOTE: The option to close/lock a topic can be easily used in a fashion similar to self-moderation.  This suggestion will also require the removal of the option to close topics.

Affected forum areas:
Self-moderation should specifically be removed from these 2 sections of the marketplace:
  • Goods(Computer hardware, Digital goods, & Collectibles)
  • Currency exchange
Any other section can be included if it is deemed worthwhile.  

Affected user groups:
Full(maybe), Senior, Hero, and Legendary users would NOT be affected.  Those groups would keep the ability to self-moderate in the decided upon marketplace sections(credit to akamit).
It would also be advantageous to have this benefit become disabled if a user's trust becomes negative(credit to ralle14).  Loss of benefits would apply regardless of their user group.

Only users with the rank of Member or below would lose their self-moderation options.

This change could become an added benefit for user groups, similar to the expanded PM space or reduced wait time between posts.

--------------------


There should not be many downsides to removing the self-moderation options for the lower user groups within certain marketplace sections.

What do you think?
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February 11, 2018, 06:14:18 PM
 #2

Okay  I see lots of marketplace abuse with self modded threads and locked threads.

I am a well known seller on marketplace and I do self mod.

I would like to think I am not abusive of that privilege.

The problem is what is a good way to discourage abuse in the marketplace.

Ban new sellers?

I do not know if op has the best idea but at least he is trying.

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February 11, 2018, 07:27:16 PM
 #3

I think it is a fantastic idea, you don't have to ban new users to discourage abuse in the marketplace, but if they scam people then they should not be allowed to self moderate a thread.

I would go one step further and also stop anyone below full member from being allowed to lock their threads.

If this was implemented it would be a large step forward in stopping scammers here, the way it is at the moment this site is a haven for scammers and they flock here by the droves, this would save me a lot of work calling out scammers in the digital goods section.

Please Admins take this onboard and consider this.

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February 11, 2018, 08:03:09 PM
 #4

I fully agree with your idea, it would be a good step against all scammers that bump their thread all the time to be read by newbies. It's quite hard to see that a thread is self moderated, so prevent new members to create some is a must in every place where goods or services are sold.

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February 11, 2018, 08:05:36 PM
 #5

Overview:
I believe we should remove the option to self-moderate topics for certain user groups within areas of the marketplace. This can be used as an additional way to reduce and prevent scamming while allowing for further community moderation.

Some reasons for the change:
1) More and more scammers are using self-moderation as a shield to prevent users from calling out any illicit activities.

What do you think?

Another risk of self moderation is that the posts in a scam thread that serve as evidence of the scam (and would be included in any scam accusation thread) could be deleted. We give the accused criminal the ability to delete the evidence of their crimes!

I'm a fan of this idea.

At least this forum has always maintained the 'buyer beware' mantra because they can't prevent or fight all the scammers that appear.

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February 11, 2018, 08:17:56 PM
 #6

Full, Senior, Hero, and Legendary users would NOT be affected.  Those groups would keep the ability to self-moderate in the decided upon marketplace sections(credit to akamit).
It would also be advantageous to have this benefit become disabled if a user's trust becomes negative(credit to ralle14).  Loss of benefits would apply regardless of their user group.
How difficult it is to buy a Full Member account on the forum ? The scammers would simply buy higher ranked accounts to start self-moderated threads..By the time user's trust becomes negative,he would have scammed a good amount of money to buy a new account..
I'm not saying this wouldn't work but scammers would find loopholes and keep doing what they intend to.


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MiLkz
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February 11, 2018, 08:33:44 PM
 #7

Ban new sellers?

Would work, but might be a bit too extreme and hard for people to get behind, haha

I would go one step further and also stop anyone below full member from being allowed to lock their threads.

I had it in there, but called it the "close option", I added lock so people know what I am talking about.

How difficult it is to buy a Full Member account on the forum ? The scammers would simply buy higher ranked accounts to start self-moderated threads..By the time user's trust becomes negative,he would have scammed a good amount of money to buy a new account..
I'm not saying this wouldn't work but scammers would find loopholes and keep doing what they intend to.

You are absolutely right. There is no way we will ever be able to completely stop scams.  All we can do is try to make it a little bit harder for the scammers.

One good thing about this merit system is the fact that higher ranked accounts will soon be harder to come by.
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February 11, 2018, 08:37:51 PM
 #8

I know we had a tough go of it the last time around, but you might be surprised to find that I have no problems whatsoever with the way this is worded, or with the idea in general. I am hard pressed to find any examples of lower ranking members using the self-moderation feature properly, and it is almost a guarantee when you see them using it that they are abusing it in some malicious manner.

This is a good way of at least remedying a small amount of the malicious behavior in these sections. Of course some will just buy Full Member accounts, but it certainly would deter at least a certain amount of them from doing so. The scam may not be worth ruining a Full Member account, or they simply don't have the funds for example.

I like how careful you were with the wording of it this time, because all of my previous disagreements have faded away and I am in full support at this point; unless someone can provide decent proof that these lower ranking members do for the most part use self-moderation admirable (which I doubt is the case).

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February 11, 2018, 08:40:56 PM
 #9

I know we had a tough go of it the last time around, but you might be surprised to find that I have no problems whatsoever with the way this is worded, or with the idea in general. I am hard pressed to find any examples of lower ranking members using the self-moderation feature properly, and it is almost a guarantee when you see them using it that they are abusing it in some malicious manner.

This is a good way of at least remedying a small amount of the malicious behavior in these sections. Of course some will just buy Full Member accounts, but it certainly would deter at least a certain amount of them from doing so. The scam may not be worth ruining a Full Member account, or they simply don't have the funds for example.

I like how careful you were with the wording of it this time, because all of my previous disagreements have faded away and I am in full support at this point; unless someone can provide decent proof that these lower ranking members do for the most part use self-moderation admirable (which I doubt is the case).

Yes, and I apologize for our previous interaction, but that back and forth, as you said, did help me a lot in creating this thread properly.

Now we can move forward and hope this catches the admin's eye.
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February 11, 2018, 09:09:09 PM
 #10

that back and forth helped me a lot in creating this thread properly.

That was all I was trying to do, and I'm happy we eventually arrived at that. I did not mean to offend or get into a foolish exchange.

I would go one step further and also stop anyone below full member from being allowed to lock their threads.
I had it in there, but called it the "close option", I added lock so people know what I am talking about.

As it stands right now, this is probably the only disagreement I would have and it's not necesarily a hard disagreement. There would be ways to make it work, but I think it would have to come with another change on Mega-Thread policy. I know newer members don't often lock their threads, but for the one's that create mega-threads and wish to lock them it might go a long way towards combating spam. I don't know if they ever do that to begin with, but I know it would be helpful if they did and so I'm wondering if anybody has any information on this?

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February 11, 2018, 09:16:57 PM
 #11

Agreed and a very great idea but I have been asking for that for 2 years and the answer I always get is "people should be smart enough to figure out scams." 
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February 11, 2018, 10:20:03 PM
 #12


How difficult it is to buy a Full Member account on the forum ?

Banning people from selling accounts would solve this, wouldn't it ? As soon as a thread is started selling accounts, it would be reported and Moderators can then delete it.

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February 11, 2018, 10:40:09 PM
 #13


How difficult it is to buy a Full Member account on the forum ?

Banning people from selling accounts would solve this, wouldn't it ? As soon as a thread is started selling accounts, it would be reported and Moderators can then delete it.

Unfortunately I don't think moderators have any interst in dealing with that stuff just like they don't want to deal with scammers, even the most blatant and obvious ones (JAAC aka Skelder/CESAR09 & the likes of "accountservices2" (Kimb0Jamz and 20+ othjers).  I'd love to take that job!  Cheesy
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February 12, 2018, 01:51:10 AM
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 #14


How difficult it is to buy a Full Member account on the forum ?

Banning people from selling accounts would solve this, wouldn't it ? As soon as a thread is started selling accounts, it would be reported and Moderators can then delete it.

Unfortunately I don't think moderators have any interst in dealing with that stuff just like they don't want to deal with spammers, even the most blatant and obvious ones (JAAC aka Skelder/CESAR09 & the likes of "accountservices2" (Kimb0Jamz and 20+ othjers).  I'd love to take that job!  Cheesy

It takes a lot of time to check bad apples scammers etc.

I run three mining locations. Small but still take time.
I build rigs for miners and support them.
I run the long alt coin mining thread.
I do reviews.
I have a small YouTube channel.
I pop in and out of threads on this site.
I do some escrow.
I sell some in marketplace here.
I spot check twenty five sites for gear.

All of the above is a one man show.
Damn list is long is it not?

I am retired or it would not be possible to do it all.

I also look for scams.

Lastly I liked the first thread about this and decided to poke my nose into it as milkz and bill gator were both bringing up good points.

About ten days ago maybe 13 I saw so many scammers on the first two pages of market place I was impressed enough to post a warning thread. Hoping to save some people grief .

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February 12, 2018, 08:11:07 AM
 #15

I would support this being restricted to higher level accounts as I agree it is massively abused by scammers. With that being said, users doing so are usually big red flags and immediately set off alarm bells.

How difficult it is to buy a Full Member account on the forum ? The scammers would simply buy higher ranked accounts to start self-moderated threads..By the time user's trust becomes negative,he would have scammed a good amount of money to buy a new account..
I'm not saying this wouldn't work but scammers would find loopholes and keep doing what they intend to.

These sorts of scammers likely won't buy an account for this because it's not really worth the risk. At the moment anyone can create a new account and try their luck and hope they get some victims. Many would-be scammers quickly get tagged as such but they just create a new account and try again because they have nothing to lose. If they had to buy a new Full Member account each time I doubt these two bit scammers would even bother.


How difficult it is to buy a Full Member account on the forum ?

Banning people from selling accounts would solve this, wouldn't it ? As soon as a thread is started selling accounts, it would be reported and Moderators can then delete it.

I'm not against banning the sale of accounts here but it wouldn't stop their sale elsewhere.

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February 12, 2018, 04:40:07 PM
 #16

Banning people from selling accounts would solve this, wouldn't it ? As soon as a thread is started selling accounts, it would be reported and Moderators can then delete it.

I'm not against banning the sale of accounts here but it wouldn't stop their sale elsewhere.

I 100% support the ban of sold accounts, however, I don't think staff wants to tackle the extra work or simply cannot because of the lack of man power.  

What I am proposing in this thread should be easy to implement as long as the existing forum software can do it.

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February 13, 2018, 06:05:46 AM
 #17

Thank you for making this post, you presented the main points much more clearly than I did. I think this is one of the issues with the forum that is actually fixable. Self-moderation is a privilege, not a right. Most forums I've been on don't even allow it as an option, and it is clearly being abused in the marketplace section. I think locking self-moderation behind copper membership for those below member is a reasonable solution, I seriously hope the administration will consider this.
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February 13, 2018, 01:20:21 PM
 #18

Banning people from selling accounts would solve this, wouldn't it ? As soon as a thread is started selling accounts, it would be reported and Moderators can then delete it.

I'm not against banning the sale of accounts here but it wouldn't stop their sale elsewhere.

I 100% support the ban of sold accounts, however, I don't think staff wants to tackle the extra work or simply cannot because of the lack of man power.  

What I am proposing in this thread should be easy to implement as long as the existing forum software can do it.



It's not that much extra work and is no different than staff trashing the threads of people trying to sell hacked web accounts or people selling merit etc. There's nothing to really dispute as people selling accounts is pretty cut and dry. The community doesn't really tolerate it anyway so I don't see the big controversy in just prohibiting people selling them here in the first place.

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February 13, 2018, 11:51:41 PM
 #19

I would support this being restricted to higher level accounts as I agree it is massively abused by scammers. With that being said, users doing so are usually big red flags and immediately set off alarm bells.


They are big flags to everyone EXCEPT the vast majority who buy from them Cheesy which are 90% newbies who find the scammers via Google search who have no idea on how to read TRUST or more importantly "UNTRUSTED" TRUST which remains hidden.
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February 14, 2018, 01:50:59 AM
 #20

I think locking self-moderation behind copper membership for those below member is a reasonable solution

I had to go surf through about 10-pages of information about the copper membership to figure out if this would be a fair proposal. I've concluded that I have no problem with this, but I would've if the Copper Membership was cheap. It seems like the copper membership was about $40, which is a fair price to pay for something that gives you so many privileges. For example, if it was only $10 for copper membership it would seem too susceptible to abuse.

They are big flags to everyone EXCEPT the vast majority who buy from them Cheesy which are 90% newbies who find the scammers via Google search who have no idea on how to read TRUST or more importantly "UNTRUSTED" TRUST which remains hidden.

This would seem to be a good argument to remove self-moderation from those with negative trust from Default Trust members. I think that may be a good addition to this, because there are higher ranking members that abuse self-moderation and our DT users could handle them.

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