Asian films old and new: recommendations, discussion and appreciation

[viboracecata]

Hark hsu plus Jet Lee's films, very strong Chinese tranditional flavors.

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[FirstAscent]

...
Finally, watching a bootleg copy of 2046, probably with botched subtitles, possibly not Wong Kar-Wai's final cut, with a bunch of guys is not the proper way to watch a Wong Kar-Wai film, ever. You watch it alone, or with a girlfriend who appreciates that kind of film.

Hey! There were girls there! One of them drove his car to the house! LOL, what kind of geek do you think I am! Heh!

Anyway, I'll put it on the list, since your OTHER picks seem likely to be good!

Still, the more people involved, the better chance one single person is not attuned to the film, and that draws focus away. Not a good thing. Wong Kar-Wai films need focus. And it's not just my OTHER picks that are good. 2046 is the movie. Unless you just want to watch action flicks.

[FirstAscent]

And did you ever see Kurosawa's No Regrets for our Youth? It's one of my favorite Kurosawa films. See the tribute here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUGhS7t903c

Just got a copy today!

Awesome! Watch When a Woman Ascends the Stairs and No Regrets for our Youth.

But after these!

Of course. Hideko Takamine and Setsuko Hara, respectively.

[FirstAscent]

And watch Hiroshi Teshigahara's Woman in the Dunes and The Face of Another for avant-garde explorations of identity. And watch Masahiro Shinoda's Pale Flower, With Beauty and Sorrow, and The Petrified Forest for nihilistic themes. And don't miss out on Masaki Kobayashi's The Human Condition. And Nagisa Oshima's Cruel Story of Youth. And Imamura's Pigs and Battleships. Want more Naruse? Watch Hideko Takamine in Yearning and Floating Clouds. And don't miss out on Keisuke Kinoshita's Twenty-four Eyes for a brilliant performance from Takamine. And absolutely, you need to see Kenji Mizoguchi's three masterpieces starring Kinuyo Tanaka: The Life of Oharu, Ugetsu, and Sansho the Bailiff.

[flagel8]

And watch Hiroshi Teshigahara's Woman in the Dunes and The Face of Another for avant-garde explorations of identity. And watch Masahiro Shinoda's Pale Flower, With Beauty and Sorrow, and The Petrified Forest for nihilistic themes. And don't miss out on Masaki Kobayashi's The Human Condition. And Nagisa Oshima's Cruel Story of Youth. And Imamura's Pigs and Battleships. Want more Naruse? Watch Hideko Takamine in Yearning and Floating Clouds. And don't miss out on Keisuke Kinoshita's Twenty-four Eyes for a brilliant performance from Takamine. And absolutely, you need to see Kenji Mizoguchi's three masterpieces starring Kinuyo Tanaka: The Life of Oharu, Ugetsu, and Sansho the Bailiff.

Yes, tomorrow! LOL!

...Unless you just want to watch action flicks.

Well, I really liked House of Flying Daggers. OK, I really liked Zhang Ziyi in House of Flying Daggers.

I actually have a copy of Woman in the Dunes, but haven't watched it yet. The syndrome again. I've read the book though.

[FirstAscent]

And watch Hiroshi Teshigahara's Woman in the Dunes and The Face of Another for avant-garde explorations of identity. And watch Masahiro Shinoda's Pale Flower, With Beauty and Sorrow, and The Petrified Forest for nihilistic themes. And don't miss out on Masaki Kobayashi's The Human Condition. And Nagisa Oshima's Cruel Story of Youth. And Imamura's Pigs and Battleships. Want more Naruse? Watch Hideko Takamine in Yearning and Floating Clouds. And don't miss out on Keisuke Kinoshita's Twenty-four Eyes for a brilliant performance from Takamine. And absolutely, you need to see Kenji Mizoguchi's three masterpieces starring Kinuyo Tanaka: The Life of Oharu, Ugetsu, and Sansho the Bailiff.

Yes, tomorrow! LOL!

...Unless you just want to watch action flicks.

Well, I really liked House of Flying Daggers. OK, I really liked Zhang Ziyi in House of Flying Daggers.

I actually have a copy of Woman in the Dunes, but haven't watched it yet. The syndrome again. I've read the book though.

The book. The book by Kobo Abe. They made movies. That is, novelist Kobo Abe, composer Toru Takemitsu and artist/director Hiroshi Teshigahara. They didn't just stick to their roles. They collaborated and made four movies. Incredible stuff.

[hlynur]

hey first ascent, i finally sobered up 
so yea where to begin.
relating wong kar-wai's movies i have perhaps a quite stupid question. some years ago i talked with a fully-hearted cineast about in the mood for love and 2046.
i can't remember everything he said at that time, but he saw a heavy connection between the different characters of these movies. His analysis was that both movies represent a connected story just in different timezones. He even had the opinion that in several key scenes the arrangement in 2046 expresses a continuation of those in "in the mood for love" and it shines through as kind of "pale memory" during the whole movie.
can you confirm this? I've seen these two with a pause of several years inbetween so I was not sure if he was right about it.
well, it seems I have to do a double feature next weekend 

[JoeQ]

I've always been blown away by Park-Chan Wook's films. Even his English-language film Stoker is stunningly beautiful.

[hlynur]

I've always been blown away by Park-Chan Wook's films. Even his English-language film Stoker is stunningly beautiful.

i just was about to start...

besides the trilogy of kar-wai i have to add southkorean director Park Chan-Wook's "Trilogy of Revenge" here. (I don't know if he belongs to a certain movement or if he's just a "one-man driven innovation").


The first movie is "Sympathy for Mr Vengeance".

plot: A recently laid off factory worker kidnaps his former boss' daughter, hoping to use the ransom money to pay for his sister's kidney transplant.

Perhaps caused by the low budget Chan-Wook couldn't completely unfold this story in the spectular way like the other two. But you already get a good impression how he really cares about every character in a story and knows how to arrange them. Unfortunately it flopped quite hard and Chan-Wook was forced to make a commercial movie (he even admitted this in an interview) to get his following projects financed.
This movie is "JSA" or "Joint security area". Even though it is apparently oriented towards the common taste it has an interesting plot that shows the life of two soldiers securing the border between north and southkorea.

After the commercial success the next movie was funded and ready to be made.
"Oldboy"

plot: A guy named Oh Dae-Su  is kidnapped and imprisoned for 15 years in one room and is finally released just with the purpose to find his captor with in 5 days.
This time Chan-Wook shows all his craftmanship. The arrangement of scenes, used colours, lighting, camera angles and good acting makes this movie a piece of art.
In combination with the strong classical soundtrack I even started to prefer the term "opera" instead of "movie" when speaking of it.

Th conclusion of the trilogy is build with
"Lady Vengeance"

plot:After thirteen and half years in prison for kidnapping and murdering the boy Park Won-mo, Geum-ja Lee is released and tries to fix her life. (a bit vague but i don't want to spoil it)
This is one of a handful of movies in my life that really provoked controverse feelings inside me after watching. It changed my whole theory of how I dealt with the feeling of revenge and justice before and if a human being should or could weigh them up against each other. The classical soundtrack again harmonizes perfectly with the opera-like style of the scenes.
sidenote: In the asian release Chan-Wook added the subtle effect of all colours slowly fading away over time until the whole picture is black and white in the end to support drive of the story. Concerned producers removed this effect for the release in western cinema.

I have to add that all three movies include several really violent scenes (especially oldboy). That's perhaps another reason why his movies weren't very successful in the west but just in the fanbase for asian movies.
In an interview Chan-Wook put this into perspective with the argument that every expression of violence and death has an important meaning and strongly is related to the character who executes it in his movies,
while he criticized that in western movies hundreds of anonymous background actors are murdered just for entertainment and the viewer is ok with it because he isn't emotionally connected at all.
I also have to add that scenes with sex or violence can be much more drastic in asian movies in general because asian audience handles it in a completely other way. (a good example is the fighting scene in KillBill with the bride and the crazy 88. This scene was presented in full colour in asian cinemas, while the western version was changed to black and white because the common audience can't handle the red colour of so much blood in the west)

After the trilogy Chan-Wook oriented towards new innovative and experimental approaches. He directed the already mentioned "Stoker" or "I'm a cyborg, but that's ok".
I can't wait for more movies from this guy, because at a certain point of sucess a director can show and express the true quality of his art without any restrictions by producers.

[FirstAscent]

hey first ascent, i finally sobered up 
so yea where to begin.
relating wong kar-wai's movies i have perhaps a quite stupid question. some years ago i talked with a fully-hearted cineast about in the mood for love and 2046.
i can't remember everything he said at that time, but he saw a heavy connection between the different characters of these movies. His analysis was that both movies represent a connected story just in different timezones. He even had the opinion that in several key scenes the arrangement in 2046 expresses a continuation of those in "in the mood for love" and it shines through as kind of "pale memory" during the whole movie.
can you confirm this? I've seen these two with a pause of several years inbetween so I was not sure if he was right about it.
well, it seems I have to do a double feature next weekend 

The main character in both movies is Mr. Chow. He found the perfect love in In the Mood for Love, but lost it. In 2046, he always measures his current love affair against that one, and finds it doesn't measure up. But 2046 is a meditation on that, but also stuff from Days of Being Wild as well, and a summary of the themes explored in the other two.

2046 touches on how memory often interferes with our ability to enjoy the present, and how love is a matter of timing, unrequited love, and failing to recognize what you have. Lulu continues to long for her deceased boyfriend, Bai Ling can't get over Mr. Chow, Wang Jing-wen longs for her Japanese boyfriend, and Su Li-zhen seems to be a bit of an enigma, both as interlude to represent memories, as a means to revive Mr. Chow's memories of the other Su Li-zhen, and as a way for Mr. Chow to better understand himself. The android, as played by Wang Jing-wen, represents the real Wang Jing-wen, and the man on the train represents Mr. Chow, but Chow has him played by the Japanese man Wang Jing-wen loves in real life.

Then there is the Chinese proverb about hiding a secret inside a hole in a tree, which was actually enacted by Mr. Chow in In the Mood for Love, and in 2046, it is explored by the man on the train as he tries to understand where the android's love lies, which, in a sense, is what Mr. Chow is trying to do with regard to Wang Jing-wen.

[hlynur]

The main character in both movies is Mr. Chow. He found the perfect love in In the Mood for Love, but lost it. In 2046, he always measures his current love affair against that one, and finds it doesn't measure up. But 2046 is a meditation on that, but also stuff from Days of Being Wild as well, and a summary of the themes explored in the other two.

2046 touches on how memory often interferes with our ability to enjoy the present, and how love is a matter of timing, unrequited love, and failing to recognize what you have. Lulu continues to long for her deceased boyfriend, Bai Ling can't get over Mr. Chow, Wang Jing-wen longs for her Japanese boyfriend, and Su Li-zhen seems to be a bit of an enigma, both as interlude to represent memories, as a means to revive Mr. Chow's memories of the other Su Li-zhen, and as a way for Mr. Chow to better understand himself. The android, as played by Wang Jing-wen, represents the real Wang Jing-wen, and the man on the train represents Mr. Chow, but Chow has him played by the Japanese man Wang Jing-wen loves in real life.

Then there is the Chinese proverb about hiding a secret inside a hole in a tree, which was actually enacted by Mr. Chow in In the Mood for Love, and in 2046, it is explored by the man on the train as he tries to understand where the android's love lies, which, in a sense, is what Mr. Chow is trying to do with regard to Wang Jing-wen.

....
wow, beautifully summarized here, but I really neet to watch the movies again in a row to get that context.
(I just realized I can't even remember most of the character names after such a long time  )
 

[FirstAscent]

The main character in both movies is Mr. Chow. He found the perfect love in In the Mood for Love, but lost it. In 2046, he always measures his current love affair against that one, and finds it doesn't measure up. But 2046 is a meditation on that, but also stuff from Days of Being Wild as well, and a summary of the themes explored in the other two.

2046 touches on how memory often interferes with our ability to enjoy the present, and how love is a matter of timing, unrequited love, and failing to recognize what you have. Lulu continues to long for her deceased boyfriend, Bai Ling can't get over Mr. Chow, Wang Jing-wen longs for her Japanese boyfriend, and Su Li-zhen seems to be a bit of an enigma, both as interlude to represent memories, as a means to revive Mr. Chow's memories of the other Su Li-zhen, and as a way for Mr. Chow to better understand himself. The android, as played by Wang Jing-wen, represents the real Wang Jing-wen, and the man on the train represents Mr. Chow, but Chow has him played by the Japanese man Wang Jing-wen loves in real life.

Then there is the Chinese proverb about hiding a secret inside a hole in a tree, which was actually enacted by Mr. Chow in In the Mood for Love, and in 2046, it is explored by the man on the train as he tries to understand where the android's love lies, which, in a sense, is what Mr. Chow is trying to do with regard to Wang Jing-wen.

....
wow, beautifully summarized here, but I really neet to watch the movies again in a row to get that context.
(I just realized I can't even remember most of the character names after such a long time  )

And you'll want to watch Days of Being Wild as well.

[FirstAscent]

Hlynur,

So as I understand it, you haven't watched any films from Japan's golden era of cinema nor the Japanese New Wave?

[niko]

has anyone here seen "i'm a cyborg, but that's ok"?

definitely not a master piece, but it has some merit.

great thread, btw. my public library list of holds is growing...

[FirstAscent]

great thread, btw. my public library list of holds is growing...

Have you watched any films from Yasujiro Ozu, Mikio Naruse, or Kenji Mizoguchi? If so, which ones?

[hlynur]

Hlynur,
So as I understand it, you haven't watched any films from Japan's golden era of cinema nor the Japanese New Wave?

nope, sorry if i kind of misguided you there
as i mentioned in pm i striped rather chaotically through world of asian movies without analyzing the several movements.
The oldest one I remember was Kurosawa's "Rashomon", was directed in the 50s if i recall correctly, would belong to the golden era then.
My overall problem is that I've watched a lot of movies (really a lot!!! lost overview at some point) for more than 15 years from all eras and countries,
and since the last 3-4 years I try to rewatch and get more backround info for a better overview and substantial knowledge.

 

[FirstAscent]

Hlynur,
So as I understand it, you haven't watched any films from Japan's golden era of cinema nor the Japanese New Wave?

nope, sorry if i kind of misguided you there
as i mentioned in pm i striped rather chaotically through world of asian movies without analyzing the several movements.
The oldest one I remember was Kurosawa's "Rashomon", was directed in the 50s if i recall correctly, would belong to the golden era then.
My overall problem is that I've watched a lot of movies (really a lot!!! lost overview at some point) for more than 15 years from all eras and countries,
and since the last 3-4 years I try to rewatch and get more backround info for a better overview and substantial knowledge.

Well, have you watched Ozu, Naruse, or Mizoguchi?

And from the Japanese New Wave, have you watched Yoshida, Imamura, Shinoda, Oshima, Teshigahara, Masumura, or Kurahara?

[FirstAscent]

I really want to see Shûji Terayama's Pastoral: To Die in the Country. It's a little bit avant-garde.

Here's a fan made "Three Reasons for Criterion Consideration" montage of the film: https://vimeo.com/30090257

[hlynur]

Well, have you watched Ozu, Naruse, or Mizoguchi?

And from the Japanese New Wave, have you watched Yoshida, Imamura, Shinoda, Oshima, Teshigahara, Masumura, or Kurahara?

...now i really feel embarassed, 

just scrolled through the different filmographies. I recognized only 3-4 familiar titles.
Compared to your knowledge about this subject I admit I haven't even scratched the surface neither do I feel capable of discussing them well-founded.
But I'm eager to your recommendations in the future.
For this weekend I plan to dive into some of Ozu's movies.
I just realized that one of my favourite german directors Wim Wenders made a documentary about Ozu being his antetype.
It's called "Tokyo-Ga" and seems like a good approach to get started.

[FirstAscent]

Well, have you watched Ozu, Naruse, or Mizoguchi?

And from the Japanese New Wave, have you watched Yoshida, Imamura, Shinoda, Oshima, Teshigahara, Masumura, or Kurahara?

...now i really feel embarassed, 

just scrolled through the different filmographies. I recognized only 3-4 familiar titles.
Compared to your knowledge about this subject I admit I haven't even scratched the surface neither do I feel capable of discussing them well-founded.
But I'm eager to your recommendations in the future.
For this weekend I plan to dive into some of Ozu's movies.
I just realized that one of my favourite german directors Wim Wenders made a documentary about Ozu being his antetype.
It's called "Tokyo-Ga" and seems like a good approach to get started.

Yes. Wim Wenders loves Ozu. Start with Late Spring. It takes about two Ozu films to get into his rhythm, and then something magical happens. I recommend Early Summer or Tokyo Twilight as your second Ozu.

Tokyo Story is the one you'll hear the most about, but it's a little different from his favorite theme that he normally explores. Also, it's considered to be a very important film, but that's a slightly different thing.

Start with Late Spring. It's also a very important film in its own right.