overwhelming consensus excludes Lauda, remains in DT2, went in2 buz w sold act

[TMAN]

Surely, as far as I understand, Theymos is the owner of the forum, so he has full and complete discretion regarding how to set up the Trust system and who to place as DT1s.  Sure, there could be some ways that Theymos could change the DT system around or tweak it, but to a certain extent there is likely some locking in of systems that cannot be transitioned in and out at the drop of a hat.

I agree that when you are dealing with holding the money of other people, then there are greater responsibilities than dealing with your own, and surely we are more free to take greater risks with our own money than we are with the money of others.  

I doubt that Theymos would leave OG with that much forum funds if he thought that OG was not aware or capable of carrying out reasonable and appropriate fiduciary responsibilities or if he thought that there may be a more prudent way to spread out the risk or to lessen some possible single points of failures, if that is actually an issue, like you assert.

Og is great with words, and aligning a situation to his own personal goals.

with some classic posting like -

The fact is that our debt has increased far faster than I had imagined at the time.  However, I structured our debt so that this would never be a killer of the operation.  In the loan it says that 25% of our mined income will go to debt....  The debt we hold is the best debt you can have in the world.  It is 0% debt with no timely required payments.  Basically, if we wanted, we could take 100 years to pay back this debt and it would be perfectly within our agreement.  

I really cannot understand how this man is default trust.. yet people like Zepher and Lauda get kicked off it..

[1715258979]

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[1715258979]

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[1715258979]

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[Lauda]

Non-withstanding the above, what you say is not even true. The most recent dump of the global trust list has 96 people explicitly excluding lauda from their trust lists, and 48 explicitly including lauda on their trust list. That is twice as many people excluding him as are including him. Further, there are 45 people who have excluded lauda from their trust list who have a UID equal to or less than mine (45 accounts that are old enough to be legendary have explicitly excluded lauda), while I estimate 24 accounts have explicitly added lauda to their trust list with a UID less than mine. I would also point out that there are a large number of accounts with lauda on their trust list that are very low the trust list dump.

Let me guess, you're counting blackmailers such as this one:

defcon23-/>Lauda

Totally-not-biased.

NoxX-/>Lauda
NoxX-/>Zepher

Cases like these make it trivially obvious that the stats are easily manipulated (re: DeepOnion trust farming shills).

Panthers52-/>Vod
Panthers52-/>Lauda

The dump is rather funny, either people who got busted for X, you and your alts (+-some minor disputes).

[FFrankie]

QuickSeller
My opinion is QuickSeller has a lot of hidden "skin in the game".

I don't stand to directly benefit from Lauda being removed from the DT network. I don't deal in forum accounts anymore because prices have fallen so much that it isn't worth the time/investment anymore, and also because I really don't have the time anymore. Although I don't think dealing in accounts is wrong provided there are willing participants to the transaction. Also, stomping out these traders will do nothing other than create a false sense of security when one slips through the cracks.

I will fight for what I believe is right, even if it is difficult or if I do not see immediate results. You laid out pretty well the majority of my concerns about Lauda in your post. My concerns about Lauda pre-date him being anywhere near the DefaultTrust network, and more or less started in a thread in which I believe he acted inappropriately, I said something publicly about my concerns, I received negative feedback from him as retaliation for posting my concerns, and he eventually edited his post to address my concerns and removed the negative after de-escalating the situation via PM, and I removed my public concerns. I then let it be, and I don't remember what got lauda back on my radar after that incident, although he was back on my radar well before he was added to blazed's trust list. You can claim "hidden 'skin in the game' " if you want, however the timeline simply does not support that.

Anyway, back to the dealing in accounts issue, as I mentioned, I think the leaving negative ratings for these trades is counterintuitive, and generally goes against my mostly libertarian beliefs. My biggest concern about lauda personally leaving negative ratings for those who deal in accounts is that he almost certainly (it would be reasonable to conclude) dealt in accounts in the past. There is an account that lauda has admitted to owning/controlling, that is connected via blockchain evidence, that on multiple occasions inquired about purchasing accounts, including making one inquiry for 10 accounts. Lauda also took the time to delete over 3,000 posts this account posted, which must be done one at a time, which is also a fairly good indication that he was trying to hide something. Although I do not have evidence (that I am aware of), I think there is a decent possibility that lauda continues to deal in accounts today.

QuickSeller certainly has a history of playing with alts (as he's done on this thread),

I have posted with exactly two accounts in this thread, the other account was really just screwing around, and I don't think was backing my arguments.

On that topic, I am fairly confident that lauda has used sockpuppets in this very thread to back his arguments. I believe one of these to be The Pharmacist, however lauda has not responded to this accusation yet, so I do not want to make the evidence I have of this public. In the US court system, the accused will first either plead guilty or not guilty before they are tried, and get to see evidence against them, and I do not see any other reason why I would be obligated to allow him to see evidence against him before he makes his position on this clear. This does not rely upon any confidential sources, so I can share what I have provided confidentiality is promised.

I never saw anyone actually get scammed by QS -

You would be pretty hard pressed to find someone who is unhappy with the outcome of a trade I was involved in, which is far from getting scammed. Although there may be one or two who claim to be, however I would argue their concerns are not legitimate.

I'm adding Lauda because they represent the will of a large portion of the forum's users (myself not included).

I am sorry, but this is nothing more than a refusal to take personal responsibility for your actions. If you are unwilling to endorse, and risk your reputation on lauda's actions and ratings, then you should immidiately remove him from your trust list. The trust system is designed to rely upon the reputations and judgment of those directly on your trust list to not only give ratings you agree with but also to have a trust list that contains those with good reputations.

Non-withstanding the above, what you say is not even true. The most recent dump of the global trust list has 96 people explicitly excluding lauda from their trust lists, and 48 explicitly including lauda on their trust list. That is twice as many people excluding him as are including him. Further, there are 45 people who have excluded lauda from their trust list who have a UID equal to or less than mine (45 accounts that are old enough to be legendary have explicitly excluded lauda), while I estimate 24 accounts have explicitly added lauda to their trust list with a UID less than mine. I would also point out that there are a large number of accounts with lauda on their trust list that are very low the trust list dump.

I am going to quote this for future reference

[JayJuanGee]

Surely, as far as I understand, Theymos is the owner of the forum, so he has full and complete discretion regarding how to set up the Trust system and who to place as DT1s.  Sure, there could be some ways that Theymos could change the DT system around or tweak it, but to a certain extent there is likely some locking in of systems that cannot be transitioned in and out at the drop of a hat.

I agree that when you are dealing with holding the money of other people, then there are greater responsibilities than dealing with your own, and surely we are more free to take greater risks with our own money than we are with the money of others.  

I doubt that Theymos would leave OG with that much forum funds if he thought that OG was not aware or capable of carrying out reasonable and appropriate fiduciary responsibilities or if he thought that there may be a more prudent way to spread out the risk or to lessen some possible single points of failures, if that is actually an issue, like you assert.

Og is great with words, and aligning a situation to his own personal goals.

with some classic posting like -

The fact is that our debt has increased far faster than I had imagined at the time.  However, I structured our debt so that this would never be a killer of the operation.  In the loan it says that 25% of our mined income will go to debt....  The debt we hold is the best debt you can have in the world.  It is 0% debt with no timely required payments.  Basically, if we wanted, we could take 100 years to pay back this debt and it would be perfectly within our agreement.  

I really cannot understand how this man is default trust.. yet people like Zepher and Lauda get kicked off it..

Yeah, but you know as well as anyone that DT1 is different from DT2, and hypothetically if Theymos wanted to take someone from DT2 and put them on DT1, then he could do that. 

Sure, he might get some pushback from within the ranks, but theoretically it is within his discretion to add to DT1 or subtract from DT1, if he concluded that it would serve his purpose(s) or benefit him more than it cost him.

[TMAN]

some more brilliant moves by a member of DT-1 and the forum treasurer... what skills much wow.. good invest... might as well be a doge forum with some of these moves..

We had a bit of excitement today.  One of our BFL power supplies burst into flames.  No harm done as I had a spare power supply on hand and was home to extinguish the flames relatively quickly.  This is actually the 3rd dead Butterfly Labs power supply I have now, so I've contacted them to RMA the dead units before they release their next-gen equipment and stop supporting their old hardware.

hitting out against Blazed... another DT-1.. and still loving the BFL gear?

No way that anyone actually thought these would ship before March 2014... These will never ROI.

Asicminer product's are already more profitable than Monarchs. Monarch was really really bad investment.

I can't tell if you guys are serious... Do you even look at power usage? I know a lot of you are emotional about placing late orders with BFL and not getting rich instantly like you thought, but this pitchfork stuff is getting out of hand.

but power is so so important as we all know OG pays power out of his own pocket..

Sorry to be so harsh about them, but they do screw a lot of people over.  Then you see a company like KnC and ASICMiner that meet deadlines, and do not treat customers like garbage.  With BFL's track record and the current network hashrate... I just do not think these will workout to more BTC than you paid for them.  Since I own some seats I hope that I am wrong though

BFL has always delivered what they said to me and they replaced our damaged unit with a 24 hour turnaround.  They also deliver a superior product, both in engineering and efficiency.

Here are the hardware numbers:
Avalon - 117MH/J
ASICMiner - 130MH/J
KnC Saturn - 400MH/J
BFL Monarch - 1714MH/J

ohh and a bit of Quantative Easing.. he does sound like a banker..

I am pleased to announce that all lenders have agreed to the new debt repayment plan!  I have conveyed this information to nonnakip, and requested that a poll be put up for a vote on nastyfans.org.  I would like to extend a special thank you on behalf of NastyMining to the lenders, and also to nonnakip for making this possible.

Plan Benefits:

• Eliminates all NastyMining debt
• Increases the donation distribution % for current NastyFans seat owners

Plan Drawbacks:

• Increases total # of NastyFans seats to 30,000

I think this is an important step to take for us going forward and I expect the benefits for everyone will far outweigh the consequences.  That being said, I do not take the consequence of NastyFans having to issue more seats lightly.  One of our motivations going forward should be the consideration of buyback plans in order to bring the seat count back down to the intended 25,000.

It should be noted that I am personally providing 500 NastyFans seats to lenders in addition to the 5,000 they are receiving from NastyFans.  NastyMining is also providing lenders with $17,729 of refund money from BFL as well as 8.36 BTC from the holdings account.

Here is the math showing the benefits for current seat owners for those who are interested.

Currently, 1 BTC donated to the fan club results in:
each seat getting 0.00002 BTC
0.25 BTC goes to NastyMining
0.25 BTC goes to NastyMining Lenders

Under the new plan, 1 BTC donated to the fan club results in:
each seat getting 0.000025 BTC
0.25 BTC goes to NastyMining

I hope I can have everyone's support in passing this poll and eliminating NastyMining's debt!

Please feel free to voice your opinions on this subject.

or should I say wanker?

[Lauda]

'Nastyfans' is neither here nor there. It's just like a shell company. It could easily be made to appear to make a profit. There's nothing there but smoke and mirrors. A husk.

OgNasty hides behind this obfuscation because he lost his investors hundred of bitcoins. He should publish accounts in bitcoin terms and make his investors whole accordingly.

He doesn't seem to scam yet in matters where he can't muddy the waters such as straightforward escrows and holding theymos' (that other expert financier) dick er i mean the forum funds.

You've been already silenced, nothing to see here. It must have been me who told you this, right? /s

[FFrankie]

I don't know about you TMAN but I measure my profits in the good old american dollar.

But my altcoins this week tanked in value against bitcoin, but actually rose in profit in terms of USD because of that USD growth I am able to buy some stuff

[TMAN]

I've read both your posts, and I can't find what you have a problem with. It seems you don't like the settlement agreement, but it seems to be done in a straightforward, transparent, and fair way.

1) Lenders lend to a Nastyfans.
2) Nastyfans pays back lenders per the original agreement.
3) Nastyfans offers a offer to settle the debt.
4) Lenders accept the offer.

It seems like you didn't like the original agreement. That's fine, you don't have to lend to Nastyfans. And if you don't like that they settled, then don't lend to Nastyfans in the future or make sure that you have favourable terms if you do.

I think this was done in a great way, a win-win for all parties.

The main idea is, that if you take "loan" then your main target is to pay principal back. When you take loan you describe people from what profits you are planing to pay back. And if that fails, you have to find another way. Usually u tell when you are going to pay back. But in case of Nasty, people decided not to worry about this as he "is so gentle and trustful", that he would definitely pay back sooner or later(depends on BFL shipment), but not 100+ years.
In this situation the loan was treated like a business proposition, when parties share risk (and usually profit).But he got low interest loan with huge risk, calling it low risk investment (loan). That is not right to me, because is was called "LOAN", not investment opportunity or etc.
Original agreement didnt`t covered a lot of cases, for instance what if NastyFan stop receiving "donations", or they would start to be called "dividends", so then Nasty wouldnt have to pay anyone anything? That does sounds scamy to me.
Even donations to NastyFans doesn`t have any strict agreement or obligations from anyone.
So its up to OggNasty to choose the way he would treat all of it. And IMHO, he haven`t done it right, so this is warning bell for all Fans and other "investors"/"debtors"/"what ever".
If some one things other way, then this is a right investment for you.

that one makes me laugh.. serious investors get ignored when they see things in a different light than our DT-1 memeber og nasty..

oh and I am still yet to bring to light the details of the GLBSE fiasco.. this will be very interesting reading for those "not informed" of how OG likes to conduct business.. as the Treasurer of this forum and DT-1.. its shady as hell.

*GLBSE* issued shares and was dissolved by nefario. I wasn’t happy with that as a resolution and worked with nonnakip to get NastyFans in place. We are the only survivor from hundreds of original GLBSE “securities” and many people are appreciative of our efforts.

Edit..

I don't know about you TMAN but I measure my profits in the good old american dollar.

But my altcoins this week tanked in value against bitcoin, but actually rose in profit in terms of USD because of that USD growth I am able to buy some stuff

that is because you are retarded.. go sit on a USD forum if you want to earn USD... the USD is the worst shitcoin in existence all I want is more BTC...

[FFrankie]

I've read both your posts, and I can't find what you have a problem with. It seems you don't like the settlement agreement, but it seems to be done in a straightforward, transparent, and fair way.

1) Lenders lend to a Nastyfans.
2) Nastyfans pays back lenders per the original agreement.
3) Nastyfans offers a offer to settle the debt.
4) Lenders accept the offer.

It seems like you didn't like the original agreement. That's fine, you don't have to lend to Nastyfans. And if you don't like that they settled, then don't lend to Nastyfans in the future or make sure that you have favourable terms if you do.

I think this was done in a great way, a win-win for all parties.

The main idea is, that if you take "loan" then your main target is to pay principal back. When you take loan you describe people from what profits you are planing to pay back. And if that fails, you have to find another way. Usually u tell when you are going to pay back. But in case of Nasty, people decided not to worry about this as he "is so gentle and trustful", that he would definitely pay back sooner or later(depends on BFL shipment), but not 100+ years.
In this situation the loan was treated like a business proposition, when parties share risk (and usually profit).But he got low interest loan with huge risk, calling it low risk investment (loan). That is not right to me, because is was called "LOAN", not investment opportunity or etc.
Original agreement didnt`t covered a lot of cases, for instance what if NastyFan stop receiving "donations", or they would start to be called "dividends", so then Nasty wouldnt have to pay anyone anything? That does sounds scamy to me.
Even donations to NastyFans doesn`t have any strict agreement or obligations from anyone.
So its up to OggNasty to choose the way he would treat all of it. And IMHO, he haven`t done it right, so this is warning bell for all Fans and other "investors"/"debtors"/"what ever".
If some one things other way, then this is a right investment for you.

that one makes me laugh.. serious investors get ignored when they see things in a different light than our DT-1 memeber og nasty..

oh and I am still yet to bring to light the details of the GLBSE fiasco.. this will be very interesting reading for those "not informed" of how OG likes to conduct business.. as the Treasurer of this forum and DT-1.. its shady as hell.

*GLBSE* issued shares and was dissolved by nefario. I wasn’t happy with that as a resolution and worked with nonnakip to get NastyFans in place. We are the only survivor from hundreds of original GLBSE “securities” and many people are appreciative of our efforts.

Edit..

I don't know about you TMAN but I measure my profits in the good old american dollar.

But my altcoins this week tanked in value against bitcoin, but actually rose in profit in terms of USD because of that USD growth I am able to buy some stuff

that is because you are retarded.. go sit on a USD forum if you want to earn USD... the USD is the worst shitcoin in existence all I want is more BTC...

well I think BTC is going to go down in the next few months so if I cash out now, my USD will be able to buy more BTC.

[minifrij]

I don't know about you TMAN but I measure my profits in the good old american dollar.

But my altcoins this week tanked in value against bitcoin, but actually rose in profit in terms of USD because of that USD growth I am able to buy some stuff

USD is irrelevant when the initial investment was done in Bitcoin.

Just like this conversation is irrelevant to this thread's matter.

[TMAN]

well I think BTC is going to go down in the next few months so if I cash out now, my USD will be able to buy more BTC.

knowing you on and off forum I can honestly say you are the worst person to make financial calls re bitcoin price that I know, that includes my youngest child of 9 years old, my cat, the binman who comes by the house to collect our trash twice a week and the local retard who begs for pennies near the off license/ liquor store..

you really are not helping out OG with your statements..

ohh.. the snake oil master of mirrors at work again..

If the hash rate is increased by double, then I say just do a 2 for 1 stock split.

I think it is important that only the 25,000 seats exist and they are not diluted over time as with most other offerings.

EDIT:  Unless we do something stupid like take on debt and it requires a 1-time dilution of 5,000 seats for us to learn our lesson.

[Altered Bitcoin]

Being new here, I wanted to inform the community that I haven't got the slightest idea who the members named CuckSmeller, Pod or pussius are or why they are so important. Please carry on.

Geez... Hours since you accidentally posted with the wrong account and that's all you can come up with?

Being new here, I didn't catch your name, sorry. Who are you again?

It has come to my attention that the sophisticated gentleman and renowned time traveler Pimplord2067 has thrown a hilarious feedback at my, back then, stellar trust page accusing me of being a

Yet another alt of Quickseller, the Bitcoin Forum’s Iago - sad really.

Now, unless the renowned time traveler Pimplord2067 traveled to the past to find my younger self on this respected forum and returned back to the future to expose my devious plans, this is fundamentally not possible. I have the suspicion that the renowned time traveler Pimplord2067, having his glaring mental shortcomings coupled with some serious underlying psychological issues, traveled back and forth in his own mind, finding nothing but a figment of his own imagination.

[TMAN]

Being new here, I didn't catch your name, sorry. Who are you again?

not being new here I can honestly say you are not, interesting at all..

[suchmoon]

I have posted with exactly two accounts in this thread, the other account was really just screwing around, and I don't think was backing my arguments.

Please be specific. Which accounts?

On that topic, I am fairly confident that lauda has used sockpuppets in this very thread to back his arguments. I believe one of these to be The Pharmacist, however lauda has not responded to this accusation yet, so I do not want to make the evidence I have of this public. In the US court system, the accused will first either plead guilty or not guilty before they are tried, and get to see evidence against them, and I do not see any other reason why I would be obligated to allow him to see evidence against him before he makes his position on this clear. This does not rely upon any confidential sources, so I can share what I have provided confidentiality is promised.

LOL, another one of those "super secret" accusations. Please share. I promise confidentiality.

[TMAN]

In the US court system, the accused will first either plead guilty or not guilty before they are tried, and get to see evidence against them, and I do not see any other reason why I would be obligated to allow him to see evidence against him before he makes his position on this clear.

you do understand how much of a cunt this makes you look like?

Lauda isnt in the US, they are on mars or in my basement. Another major point - this is a fucking internet forum.. these delusions of grandeur that come out when you are typing are just fucking retarded.. you are as bad as OG demanding people respect him.

fucking tards the pair of you

[OgNasty]

I don't know about you TMAN but I measure my profits in the good old american dollar.

But my altcoins this week tanked in value against bitcoin, but actually rose in profit in terms of USD because of that USD growth I am able to buy some stuff

USD is irrelevant when the initial investment was done in Bitcoin.

Just like this conversation is irrelevant to this thread's matter.

Ridiculous that you would say USD is irrelevant. Even my forum salary is measured and taxed in USD.

Deflection is a common scammer technique. Not surprising how much energy is being put into it on this thread.

[TMAN]

I don't know about you TMAN but I measure my profits in the good old american dollar.

But my altcoins this week tanked in value against bitcoin, but actually rose in profit in terms of USD because of that USD growth I am able to buy some stuff

USD is irrelevant when the initial investment was done in Bitcoin.

Just like this conversation is irrelevant to this thread's matter.

Ridiculous that you would say USD is irrelevant. Even my forum salary is measured and taxed in USD.

Deflection is a common scammer technique. Not surprising how much energy is being put into it on this thread.

Are you calling me out as a scammer?

Investing BTC requires a BTC return.. same as lending BTC requires a BTC return.. its a pretty simple idea that 95% of this forum will agree with.

well those members who have BTC and want more of it..

[minifrij]

Ridiculous that you would say USD is irrelevant. Even my forum salary is measured and taxed in USD.

Nice job ignoring the second part of my sentence that put it in context.
USD isn't irrelevant alone, however when being part of a programme based around another currency, it is.
If I open a savings account and put £100 in, I wouldn't measure the success of those savings in $. Due to exchange rates and the like, it would not give me an accurate representation of how well my savings account is performing (especially so if £ was up against the $).

The exact same thing applies with programmes like NastyFans. Seats are bought using Bitcoin, so then representing the programme's performance using USD is both inaccurate and dishonest.

[OgNasty]

Ridiculous that you would say USD is irrelevant. Even my forum salary is measured and taxed in USD.

Nice job ignoring the second part of my sentence that put it in context.
USD isn't irrelevant alone, however when being part of a programme based around another currency, it is.
If I open a savings account and put £100 in, I wouldn't measure the success of those savings in $. Due to exchange rates and the like, it would not give me an accurate representation of how well my savings account is performing (especially so if £ was up against the $).

The exact same thing applies with programmes like NastyFans. Seats are bought using Bitcoin, so then representing the programme's performance using USD is both inaccurate and dishonest.

That’s because of what you consider your base currency. Consider this. If I put £100 in a savings account, I would only care about it’s value in USD. Get it? If you wanted to measure the performance of NastyFans seats in £, that would be reasonable. However, until you start paying your taxes based in BTC, your position that assets be valued in BTC is that of fantasy.

First you complain about the deflection, then you continue it...

[@rt27]

So this is all about Lauda's popularity isn't?

The big question in my mind now, why stoning each other insteed of focusing to more serious problem and build good chemistry with the team?

Is Lauda help you and make you happy when removed from DT? I don't care.