Fanboys vs the ROIers... The Custom Hardware Divide!

[xstr8guy]

Am I stating the obvious when I say there doesn't seem to be very much middle-ground between the two?  It's very similar to the difference between liberal and conservative politics (please don't make this a political discussion).  Each side thinks they have all of the answers and the other side is a bunch of moronic losers.  Lol.

Full disclosure... I admit, I'm a bit of an ASIC fanboy.  Every new product announcement gets my interest.  I try to weed-out the obvious scams but it has become much more difficult.  Currently, I have dozens of USB Erupter, 6 Blades and 2 Bitfury Starter Kits.  I also have another Bitfury October preorder and KnC preorder.  I'm not into this to make money although returning my original investment would be nice.  But I'm having a lot of fun regardless.

[1715534132]

1715534132

[1715534132]

1715534132

[1715534132]

1715534132

[1715534132]

1715534132

[1715534132]

1715534132

[xstr8guy]

Thanks for voting so quickly guys!

But please expand on your opinion.  All inflammatory comments are welcome in this thread.  In fact, it might be nice to confine it to this thread. 

[xstr8guy]

Oh this might stir things up a bit...
I also "upgraded" an April BFL preorder to a Monarch.  Even I have written that one off, lol.

[amencon]

I think there is plenty of middle ground.  Most would like to see the bitcoin network more secured, most would also like to make some money for their efforts.  Not really sure what this post is driving at.  I mined around break even with GPUs for awhile however judge future miner hardware purchases based on speculative BTC ROI.  Being interested in ASICs and not wanting to lose money aren't mutually exclusive.  I'm sure there are plenty that have bought small USB miners for fun knowing they'd likely never turn a profit and also purchased larger priced ASICs with profitability in mind.

[bcp19]

I did my research and then chose.  I only had 2 options I could afford then, I have 3 I could afford now and would still make the same choice.

[mmitech]

Oh this might stir things up a bit...
I also "upgraded" an April BFL preorder to a Monarch.  Even I have written that one off, lol.

Oh my god you again ... I will try to be respectful this time ....wouldn't be better to donate the money that you know you will be losing to some charity ? investing money with the knowledge that you will never return on you investment is just re****d... I cant be respectful right 

no back to my ignore list

[xstr8guy]

I think there is plenty of middle ground.  Most would like to see the bitcoin network more secured, most would also like to make some money for their efforts.  Not really sure what this post is driving at.  I mined around break even with GPUs for awhile however judge future miner hardware purchases based on speculative BTC ROI.  Being interested in ASICs and not wanting to lose money aren't mutually exclusive.  I'm sure there are plenty that have bought small USB miners for fun knowing they'd likely never turn a profit and also purchased larger priced ASICs with profitability in mind.

What is this post driving at?  I'm just pointing out that there seems to be such a strong divide between the "wants" and the "want nots".

And oddly, some of the most vocal people in the Custom Hardware subforum are the "want nots".  Why do they feel its their duty to "educate" those of us who are actually interested in the topic?  Frankly, it tiresome and boring.

Flame away!

[Roy Badami]

I think it's true that this forum is dominated by people who are obsessed with the idea that Bitcoin mining should be a guaranteed ROI, and rail against anyone who gets in the way of their God-given right to free money.

Whatever you may think of YiFu and Avalon - I agree with this:

I am tired of this toxic community malformed by greed.

I mine for fun.  I hope the coins will cover most of the hardware costs, but I don't delude myself into thinking that ROI is particularly likely.  Glad to see I'm not the only one.

roy

[xstr8guy]

Oh this might stir things up a bit...
I also "upgraded" an April BFL preorder to a Monarch.  Even I have written that one off, lol.

Oh my god you again ... I will try to be respectful this time ....wouldn't be better to donate the money that you know you will be losing to some charity ? investing money with the knowledge that you will never return on you investment is just re****d... I cant be respectful right 

no back to my ignore list

Ha funny!  I had to unignore you to read your post.  You got me!

[mmitech]

I think it's true that this forum is dominated by people who are obsessed with the idea that Bitcoin mining should be a guaranteed ROI, and rail against anyone who gets in the way of their God-given right to free money.

Whatever you may think of YiFu and Avalon - I agree with this:

I am tired of this toxic community malformed by greed.

I mine for fun.  I hope the coins will cover most of the hardware costs, but I don't delude myself into thinking that ROI is particularly likely.  Glad to see I'm not the only one.

roy

I like when you say free money, I would like to hear what bill gates think about this ...  

it is not free when you invest money and take time and effort to get it (if you didn't understand my reference)

[amencon]

I think there is plenty of middle ground.  Most would like to see the bitcoin network more secured, most would also like to make some money for their efforts.  Not really sure what this post is driving at.  I mined around break even with GPUs for awhile however judge future miner hardware purchases based on speculative BTC ROI.  Being interested in ASICs and not wanting to lose money aren't mutually exclusive.  I'm sure there are plenty that have bought small USB miners for fun knowing they'd likely never turn a profit and also purchased larger priced ASICs with profitability in mind.

What is this post driving at?  I'm just pointing out that there seems to be such a strong divide between the "wants" and the "want nots".

And oddly, some of the most vocal people in the Custom Hardware subforum are the "want nots".  Why do they feel its their duty to "educate" those of us who are actually interested in the topic?  Frankly, it tiresome and boring.

Flame away!

Well I guess we'll have to disagree that such a large divide exists then.  Most arguments surrounding this topic I've seen stem more from a differing of what constitutes ROI.  If you know your equipment likely won't make a return over investment and you are fine with that and your motivation is to secure the network and get a chance to own ASICs, then I don't think that is very controversial and I doubt anyone has a problem with it.

[mmitech]

I think there is plenty of middle ground.  Most would like to see the bitcoin network more secured, most would also like to make some money for their efforts.  Not really sure what this post is driving at.  I mined around break even with GPUs for awhile however judge future miner hardware purchases based on speculative BTC ROI.  Being interested in ASICs and not wanting to lose money aren't mutually exclusive.  I'm sure there are plenty that have bought small USB miners for fun knowing they'd likely never turn a profit and also purchased larger priced ASICs with profitability in mind.

What is this post driving at?  I'm just pointing out that there seems to be such a strong divide between the "wants" and the "want nots".

And oddly, some of the most vocal people in the Custom Hardware subforum are the "want nots".  Why do they feel its their duty to "educate" those of us who are actually interested in the topic?  Frankly, it tiresome and boring.

Flame away!

Well I guess we'll have to disagree that such a large divide exists then.  Most arguments surrounding this topic I've seen stem more from a differing of what constitutes ROI.  If you know your equipment likely won't make a return over investment and you are fine with that and your motivation is to secure the network and get a chance to own ASICs, then I don't think that is very controversial and I doubt anyone has a problem with it.

to be honest, i am not against collectors and small miners who take mining  as a hobby, but I am against that behavior because it gives the wrong attitude for manufacturers, they will overprice each product because of people like that.... nothing personal but i guess it is an open market and this is how it goes...

[xstr8guy]

I'm actually very pleased that #3 is in the lead.  Cheers to the sensible people!  Wish I could be a little less enthusiastic about every damn device.

But I haven't been officially scammed yet.  I did get a full refund from bASIC (thanks too MBP Dave!) and BFL did actually deliver my Little Single (which I sold 2 weeks later on Ebay for a tidy profit).  And they haven't yet screwed me on the Monarch.

[amencon]

I think there is plenty of middle ground.  Most would like to see the bitcoin network more secured, most would also like to make some money for their efforts.  Not really sure what this post is driving at.  I mined around break even with GPUs for awhile however judge future miner hardware purchases based on speculative BTC ROI.  Being interested in ASICs and not wanting to lose money aren't mutually exclusive.  I'm sure there are plenty that have bought small USB miners for fun knowing they'd likely never turn a profit and also purchased larger priced ASICs with profitability in mind.

What is this post driving at?  I'm just pointing out that there seems to be such a strong divide between the "wants" and the "want nots".

And oddly, some of the most vocal people in the Custom Hardware subforum are the "want nots".  Why do they feel its their duty to "educate" those of us who are actually interested in the topic?  Frankly, it tiresome and boring.

Flame away!

Well I guess we'll have to disagree that such a large divide exists then.  Most arguments surrounding this topic I've seen stem more from a differing of what constitutes ROI.  If you know your equipment likely won't make a return over investment and you are fine with that and your motivation is to secure the network and get a chance to own ASICs, then I don't think that is very controversial and I doubt anyone has a problem with it.

to be honest, i am not against collectors and small miners who take mining  as a hobby, but I am against that behavior because it gives the wrong attitude for manufacturers, they will overprice each product because of people like that.... nothing personal but i guess it is an open market and this is how it goes...

I don't think you have to worry.  It's one thing to burn a few dollars to get a USB ASIC, however I doubt there are many willing to consciously throw away thousands of dollars on ASICs when they could have one for much cheaper if novelty was their only motivation.  Or at least not enough of these people for manufacturers to model their business on.  Or at least logically I find this to be incredulous, but fuck, who knows.

[xjack]

I'm definitely in the gray area.  Once burned, twice learned if you will.

Running a USB Erupter Farm, fun to set up and play - will let it run until it's negative on the electric bill.  :deadhorse:

Gambled on Avalon Chips. :fail:

Hoping early order for Oct BitFury pans out. :pray:

Watching new offerings closely, but firmly rooted on the sidelines.

[xstr8guy]

I think there is plenty of middle ground.  Most would like to see the bitcoin network more secured, most would also like to make some money for their efforts.  Not really sure what this post is driving at.  I mined around break even with GPUs for awhile however judge future miner hardware purchases based on speculative BTC ROI.  Being interested in ASICs and not wanting to lose money aren't mutually exclusive.  I'm sure there are plenty that have bought small USB miners for fun knowing they'd likely never turn a profit and also purchased larger priced ASICs with profitability in mind.

What is this post driving at?  I'm just pointing out that there seems to be such a strong divide between the "wants" and the "want nots".

And oddly, some of the most vocal people in the Custom Hardware subforum are the "want nots".  Why do they feel its their duty to "educate" those of us who are actually interested in the topic?  Frankly, it tiresome and boring.

Flame away!

Well I guess we'll have to disagree that such a large divide exists then.  Most arguments surrounding this topic I've seen stem more from a differing of what constitutes ROI.  If you know your equipment likely won't make a return over investment and you are fine with that and your motivation is to secure the network and get a chance to own ASICs, then I don't think that is very controversial and I doubt anyone has a problem with it.

Well there you go being all logical and nice!  Thanks for that.  I wish we could clone you a million times. 

But I do disagree with your assertion that everyone here has no problem with others who don't worry about ROI so much.  It seems to me that every single thread in this subforum is filled with, "your product is a failure because you won't give it to me for 10% of what it cost you to produce!" and "you're an idiot for buying something that isn't guaranteed to make you a profit!"  And no, I don't think I'm exaggerating... that much.

[Roy Badami]

I'm actually very pleased that #3 is in the lead.  Cheers to the sensible people!  Wish I could be a little less enthusiastic about every damn device.

Hey, I probably should have voted #3, but I voted #1 to point out that I don't really think ROI is realistic.

But I haven't been officially scammed yet.  I did get a full refund from bASIC (thanks too MBP Dave!) and BFL did actually deliver my Little Single (which I sold 2 weeks later on Ebay for a tidy profit).  And they haven't yet screwed me on the Monarch.

Hey, same here with the bASIC.  Although I'm currently mining with my Single SC.  Not sure I got it early enough to make a tidy profit on resale - but anyway.... mining with it is more fun :-)

[xstr8guy]

Wow!  I have to admit that I thought this thread would go thermonuclear right out of the gate.  And it's been just the opposite... a very polite discussion.

I feel bad now for expecting the worst.  I'll tone it down a notch.  Humbled.

[Roy Badami]

to be honest, i am not against collectors and small miners who take mining  as a hobby, but I am against that behavior because it gives the wrong attitude for manufacturers, they will overprice each product because of people like that.... nothing personal but i guess it is an open market and this is how it goes...

I don't think the problem is people who don't expect to ROI.  The problem is all the people who placed large preorders expecting to make huge profits based on completely unrealistically low expectations of difficulty.  The fact of the matter is that the vast majority of ASIC hardware ordered will never ROI.

roy

[xstr8guy]

I'm actually very pleased that #3 is in the lead.  Cheers to the sensible people!  Wish I could be a little less enthusiastic about every damn device.

Hey, I probably should have voted #3, but I voted #1 to point out that I don't really think ROI is realistic.

But I haven't been officially scammed yet.  I did get a full refund from bASIC (thanks too MBP Dave!) and BFL did actually deliver my Little Single (which I sold 2 weeks later on Ebay for a tidy profit).  And they haven't yet screwed me on the Monarch.

Hey, same here with the bASIC.  Although I'm currently mining with my Single SC.  Not sure I got it early enough to make a tidy profit on resale - but anyway.... mining with it is more fun :-)

I feel the same way about my Blades.  I do know very well that it will be a miracle that I'll ever make back my investment.  But damn it's fun to be in the top 300's on BTCGuild!  I do expect to make a couple of BTC from my Bitfurys though.

[Xian01]

FWIW, I got in with GPU mining in mid-2011, paid off my GPU rigs when I sold a bunch of BTC when it hit $250 USD, and the pile of BTC I'm left sitting on is "play money" that I'm having fun with.

In this for the fun and as a hobby.

[amencon]

I think there is plenty of middle ground.  Most would like to see the bitcoin network more secured, most would also like to make some money for their efforts.  Not really sure what this post is driving at.  I mined around break even with GPUs for awhile however judge future miner hardware purchases based on speculative BTC ROI.  Being interested in ASICs and not wanting to lose money aren't mutually exclusive.  I'm sure there are plenty that have bought small USB miners for fun knowing they'd likely never turn a profit and also purchased larger priced ASICs with profitability in mind.

What is this post driving at?  I'm just pointing out that there seems to be such a strong divide between the "wants" and the "want nots".

And oddly, some of the most vocal people in the Custom Hardware subforum are the "want nots".  Why do they feel its their duty to "educate" those of us who are actually interested in the topic?  Frankly, it tiresome and boring.

Flame away!

Well I guess we'll have to disagree that such a large divide exists then.  Most arguments surrounding this topic I've seen stem more from a differing of what constitutes ROI.  If you know your equipment likely won't make a return over investment and you are fine with that and your motivation is to secure the network and get a chance to own ASICs, then I don't think that is very controversial and I doubt anyone has a problem with it.

Well there you go being all logical and nice!  Thanks for that.  I wish we could clone you a million times. 

But I do disagree with your assertion that everyone here has no problem with others who don't worry about ROI so much.  It seems to me that every single thread in this subforum is filled with, "your product is a failure because you won't give it to me for 10% of what it cost you to produce!" and "you're an idiot for buying something that isn't guaranteed to make you a profit!"  And no, I don't think I'm exaggerating... that much.

Hah me cloned a million times would make a pretty boring forums but thank you.  This thread spawned more interesting dialog than I anticipated, sorry for my skepticism.

In my perspective most complaints towards manufacturers is that they didn't deliver on what they promised, not that the company has a profit margin on their products.  I agree that there is nothing wrong with manufacturers charging above cost for their products.  Maybe my perspective is due to projection on my part and I'm not seeing it the way you do.

[PuertoLibre]

Am I stating the obvious when I say there doesn't seem to be very much middle-ground between the two?  It's very similar to the difference between liberal and conservative politics (please don't make this a political discussion).  Each side thinks they have all of the answers and the other side is a bunch of moronic losers.  Lol.

Full disclosure... I admit, I'm a bit of an ASIC fanboy.  Every new product announcement gets my interest.  I try to weed-out the obvious scams but it has become much more difficult.  Currently, I have dozens of USB Erupter, 6 Blades and 2 Bitfury Starter Kits.  I also have another Bitfury October preorder and KnC preorder.  I'm not into this to make money although returning my original investment would be nice.  But I'm having a lot of fun regardless.

Correction, you are a BFL ASIC Fanboi. Just to be clear on the record.

[Stinky_Pete]

Congratulations all on creating such a polite and civilised thread so far. Makes a nice change, and gives me hope.

[xstr8guy]

Am I stating the obvious when I say there doesn't seem to be very much middle-ground between the two?  It's very similar to the difference between liberal and conservative politics (please don't make this a political discussion).  Each side thinks they have all of the answers and the other side is a bunch of moronic losers.  Lol.

Full disclosure... I admit, I'm a bit of an ASIC fanboy.  Every new product announcement gets my interest.  I try to weed-out the obvious scams but it has become much more difficult.  Currently, I have dozens of USB Erupter, 6 Blades and 2 Bitfury Starter Kits.  I also have another Bitfury October preorder and KnC preorder.  I'm not into this to make money although returning my original investment would be nice.  But I'm having a lot of fun regardless.

Correction, you are a BFL ASIC Fanboi. Just to be clear on the record.

I've temporarily unignored you since I started this thread and I'm slightly curious if you had anything constructive to add.

And nope, as usual, you have nothing to add to the discussion.

And btw, I currently own no BFL devices.  As I've stated already in this thread, I sold my Little Single and I do have a Monarch preorder.  I own ASICMiner Blades and USBs and Bitfury boards.  I also have a KnC September preorder as well as another October Bitfury preorder.  So I'm not sure how that makes me a BFL fanboy.  I've already openly, unashamedly stated that I was an ASIC fanboy.  BFL has no special place in my heart, lol.

[PuertoLibre]

Am I stating the obvious when I say there doesn't seem to be very much middle-ground between the two?  It's very similar to the difference between liberal and conservative politics (please don't make this a political discussion).  Each side thinks they have all of the answers and the other side is a bunch of moronic losers.  Lol.

Full disclosure... I admit, I'm a bit of an ASIC fanboy.  Every new product announcement gets my interest.  I try to weed-out the obvious scams but it has become much more difficult.  Currently, I have dozens of USB Erupter, 6 Blades and 2 Bitfury Starter Kits.  I also have another Bitfury October preorder and KnC preorder.  I'm not into this to make money although returning my original investment would be nice.  But I'm having a lot of fun regardless.

Correction, you are a BFL ASIC Fanboi. Just to be clear on the record.

I've temporarily unignored you since I started this thread and I'm slightly curious if you had anything constructive to add.

And nope, as usual, you have nothing to add to the discussion.  Please go away.  You won't be missed.

If you want me to say something constructive, then pick a topic. I assure you I can be just as (or even more) rational than you imagine.

[Stinky_Pete]

Congratulations all on creating such a polite and civilised thread so far. Makes a nice change, and gives me hope.

OK, I take it back. Large fonts are never a good sign.

*Edit* - and now they've mysteriously gone to normal sized italics.

[PuertoLibre]

Am I stating the obvious when I say there doesn't seem to be very much middle-ground between the two?  It's very similar to the difference between liberal and conservative politics (please don't make this a political discussion).  Each side thinks they have all of the answers and the other side is a bunch of moronic losers.  Lol.

For example, I will point out an obvious point.

The FanBoi's are [usually] irrational members who will [by definition] support their favorite company even when they do egregious harm on the BitCoin community.

People interested in ROI are looking at ASIC manufacturers as a means to an end. They are worried about balancing their financial income vs debt when buying hardware. In most cases, a rational endeavor....but not always carried out in a rational way.

[xstr8guy]

Am I stating the obvious when I say there doesn't seem to be very much middle-ground between the two?  It's very similar to the difference between liberal and conservative politics (please don't make this a political discussion).  Each side thinks they have all of the answers and the other side is a bunch of moronic losers.  Lol.

Full disclosure... I admit, I'm a bit of an ASIC fanboy.  Every new product announcement gets my interest.  I try to weed-out the obvious scams but it has become much more difficult.  Currently, I have dozens of USB Erupter, 6 Blades and 2 Bitfury Starter Kits.  I also have another Bitfury October preorder and KnC preorder.  I'm not into this to make money although returning my original investment would be nice.  But I'm having a lot of fun regardless.

Correction, you are a BFL ASIC Fanboi. Just to be clear on the record.

I've temporarily unignored you since I started this thread and I'm slightly curious if you had anything constructive to add.

And nope, as usual, you have nothing to add to the discussion.  Please go away.  You won't be missed.

If you want me to say something constructive, then pick a topic. I assure you I can be just as (or even more) rationale than you imagine.

I'm sorry, but why did you post in this thread?

I honestly don't think I've ever disliked someone as much as you.  You are a plague on this community.

[PuertoLibre]

You asked for opinions. You got them. Like always, you don't like my opinions.

What could I do? <throws up hands in the air!>

Edit: Oh wait, I came up with something even funnier. You are a FanBoi and I am a ROI'er.

That is why you dislike me so much. <big shoulder shrug>

[xstr8guy]

You asked for opinions. You got them. Like always, you don't like my opinions.

What could I do? <throws up hands in the air!>

Edit: Oh wait, I came up with something even funnier. You are a FanBoi and I am a ROI'er.

That is why you dislike me so much. <big shoulder shrug>

I can't find the quote but didn't you, a few weeks back, say to me "You are invisible to me."?

Please make me invisible again.  Please!

[PuertoLibre]

You asked for opinions. You got them. Like always, you don't like my opinions.

What could I do? <throws up hands in the air!>

Edit: Oh wait, I came up with something even funnier. You are a FanBoi and I am a ROI'er.

That is why you dislike me so much. <big shoulder shrug>

I can't find the quote but didn't you, a few weeks back, say to me "You are invisible to me."?

Please make me invisible again.  Please!

No, not that I recall? Perhaps that was another member(s).

Are you sure they didn't say "You are dead to me." ?

Think carefully, perhaps it was YipYip, it's his way of communicating love towards another member.

Edit: By the way, I chose: I carefully research each new device and proceed with caution   )