[ANNOUNCE] Zero Reserve - A distributed Bitcoin Exchange

[anu]

OK, the latest version does not crash any more on win32, seems stable so far. I had to remove the -rdynamic option from zeroreserve.pro, though.

I'd like to buy a tnBTC for 500 zimbabwe dollars!  

That's the catch: You need to give credit *in Zimbabwe Dollar* before you can sell TnBTC for Zim$. Orders are not propagated to a hop unless they can at least partly be paid for.

As we were using mainly "Fools Gold" for testing so far, the Zim$ network is too sparse. That's why it didn't arrive here.

[crimealone]

Hi, anu, is there a new version of whitepaper?

[anu]

Hi, anu, is there a new version of whitepaper?

I absolutely have to update it. The Bitcoin  TX evolved very far away from the whitepaper. It is now a contract: Fiat is transferred when a Bitcoin TX with an agreed upon TXID has 6 confirmations. So it is the Bitcoin network itself that triggers the final commit. Which makes the whole thing ACID provided there is no fork deeper than 6 blocks. No need for multisig.

[crimealone]

Looking forward to the new version

[ThePurplePlanet]

Ripple touted as decentralized http://www.coindesk.com/fidor-becomes-first-bank-to-use-ripple-payment-protocol/

Does this project lack marketing leadership?

[anu]

Does this project lack marketing leadership?

We need to roll out a TestNet version first. That will happen very soon. Everything works already - under ideal conditions. What I am currently doing is making it work under conditions that are not ideal (a node goes away, credit is insufficient...). I hope we can get 20 or more people to participate in TestNet runs to iron out the last wrinkles. Once TestNet runs smoothly, we will roll out a first production version. That will be in a few weeks. At that point, some evangelism would be most welcome.

In the meantime, what everyone can do to help is:

• Install RetroShare and the Satoshi Client (TestNet)
• Friend Nabu and get on the ZeroReserve Chat group in Retroshare
• Play with RetroShare and ZeroReserve - find bugs

I think the shenanigans around the centralized exchanges showed that ZeroReserve is much needed - particularly the "ban" in China. As said, a running Zero Reserve network will prevent Western government from any ban because all that would do it to drive people from Bitstamp to Zero Reserve. All that doesn't mean Zero Reserve will ever take off - it may spend a zombie life in the data tomb or Github. So yes, "marketing leadership" is lacking.

[NoDreamsWatching]

So how would this work? Would two people find each other on the distributed "Zero Reserve"-exchange and then person A would make a bank transfer to person B's personal bank account, and person B would in turn send XBT to person A's bitcoin address?

Wouldn't that raise a flag and make the bank freeze the bank account of person B for receiving let's say 20 000 USD from perhaps 20 different people from all over the world? Yes, this would be better than using a centralized exchange, but would probably be troublesome for larger transactions.

[anu]

So how would this work? Would two people find each other on the distributed "Zero Reserve"-exchange and then person A would make a bank transfer to person B's personal bank account, and person B would in turn send XBT to person A's bitcoin address?

Wouldn't that raise a flag and make the bank freeze the bank account of person B for receiving let's say 20 000 USD from perhaps 20 different people from all over the world? Yes, this would be better than using a centralized exchange, but would probably be troublesome for larger transactions.

No, that is not how it works. Like with Bitcoin, "getting" Zero Reserve takes a leap of faith:

Many industries do things you can't do in your basement . Their products require a lot of knowledge and potentially expensive machinery to create. That is not the case for the banking industry. They aren't doing anything anyone can't do. What they do is: They grant credit to those they consider trustworthy. If you use this credit, fiat money is created. You can do that, I can do that. Everyone can do that. The thing is: You don't even need money to grant someone credit - the banks do not have money, either. Banks are not required for a fiat remittance system. This is the dirty secret of the banking industry. Once you understand this, you have taken a step out of the Matrix and freed your mind.

I was writing up an outline of how it works here:
https://github.com/zeroreserve/ZeroReserve/wiki

Currently I am updating the paper for those who are interested in the details of protocols and why it works even in an untrusted environment. You can take a look at it as it is now but keep in mind that this is a work in progress:
https://github.com/zeroreserve/ZeroReserve/wiki/zeroreserve.pdf

[spring.yu]

Did  the project launched?
I wait for a long time, I remember it  was there last year.

[anu]

Zero Reserve 0.1 is now pretty much feature complete. It is time to do some testing. Please join tomorrow, Monday, 18:00h UTC. No reason to fear losing money - we'll just trade TestNet Bitcoin against fools gold, Zimbabwe Dollar or German Papermark (1923).

The install procedure is outlined here:
https://github.com/zeroreserve/ZeroReserve
at the bottom of the page.

Installing ZeroReserve is not enough, it needs some setup, which is described in the Getting Started Page

Please start well before the test tomorrow - it takes some time to download the TestNet blockchain and we also need to establish the friend relationships in Retroshare. You might also want to get some TestNet Bitcoin through a faucet beforehand.

[phelix]

Zero Reserve 0.1 is now pretty much feature complete. It is time to do some testing. Please join tomorrow, Monday, 18:00h UTC. No reason to fear losing money - we'll just trade TestNet Bitcoin against fools gold, Zimbabwe Dollar or German Papermark (1923).

The install procedure is outlined here:
https://github.com/zeroreserve/ZeroReserve
at the bottom of the page.

Installing ZeroReserve is not enough, it needs some setup, which is described in the Getting Started Page

Please start well before the test tomorrow - it takes some time to download the TestNet blockchain and we also need to establish the friend relationships in Retroshare. You might also want to get some TestNet Bitcoin through a faucet beforehand.

I created the windows installer as linked from the readme.md https://mega.co.nz/#!MVIykABI!fFkRbtdOQDfrIKc0Kke2yfFpS6T17z7q6YxelQ6BJMc

Code:

$ shasum -a 256 zeroreserve-bundle-pre_0.1_setup.exe
d3d4ede39eef3e215d5662dd2797c013854807f941c78639bef554075dc91c27  zeroreserve-bundle-pre_0.1_setup.exe

I did build both Retroshare 0.5.5 (7062) and ZeroReserve from scratch using the latest OpenSSL version (1.0.1g). I used ZeroReserve code from https://github.com/zeroreserve/zeroreserve (as of 2014-06-07).

Looking forward to some decentralized trading  

[oakpacific]

Hmmm.....it does look like people are more into the Ripple-style IOUs, then really solving the banking problem.

[doolittle]

Installed it, tested it, used it. I made my first deal and it works!
EXCELLENT JOB !!! 

[phelix]

Hmmm.....it does look like people are more into the Ripple-style IOUs, then really solving the banking problem.

There's a difference here: you don't owe to some huge corporation but your friends. Also ZeroReserve uses Bitcoin instead of XRP. IMHO ZeroReserve has great potential to improve Bitcoin's exchange situation.

[oakpacific]

Hmmm.....it does look like people are more into the Ripple-style IOUs, then really solving the banking problem.

There's a difference here: you don't owe to some huge corporation but your friends.

For many people, the problem is they are owed by some huge corporations, it's not like when it comes to debts your friend is exactly more credible than some huge corporations. Also, if the debts can only be exchanged between friends, why not just go buying bitcoins from them with cash/bank transfer?(especially the assumption here is you already trust them)

Also ZeroReserve uses Bitcoin instead of XRP.

Does that mean I have to have some bitcoins before I can trade? That doesn't sound really ideal.

IMHO ZeroReserve has great potential to improve Bitcoin's exchange situation.

Exchanges are designed to facilitate trades between strangers, especially when it comes to large amount trading. Also there are other alternatives, but nobody pays attention.

[anu]

Hmmm.....it does look like people are more into the Ripple-style IOUs, then really solving the banking problem.

There's a difference here: you don't owe to some huge corporation but your friends.

For many people, the problem is they are owed by some huge corporations, it's not like when it comes to debts your friend is exactly more credible than some huge corporations. Also, if the debts can only be exchanged between friends, why not just go buying bitcoins from them with cash/bank transfer?(especially the assumption here is you already trust them)

Also ZeroReserve uses Bitcoin instead of XRP.

Does that mean I have to have some bitcoins before I can trade? That doesn't sound really ideal.

No, you can buy Bitcoins without having any.

Exchanges are designed to facilitate trades between strangers...

That is what ZR does. Even if you do buy from a friend, you would not know. Every deal is "remote",

Zero Reserve is somewhat hard to explain - you need to use it. Just get the code and everything will fall into place.

[oakpacific]

No, you can buy Bitcoins without having any.

So I will buy real Bitcoins with these IOUs I guess?

Exchanges are designed to facilitate trades between strangers...

That is what ZR does. Even if you do buy from a friend, you would not know. Every deal is "remote",

Zero Reserve is somewhat hard to explain - you need to use it. Just get the code and everything will fall into place.

So when saying 'friends', what you exactly meant is 'retroshare friends'?

[anu]

No, you can buy Bitcoins without having any.

So I will buy real Bitcoins with these IOUs I guess?

Exchanges are designed to facilitate trades between strangers...

That is what ZR does. Even if you do buy from a friend, you would not know. Every deal is "remote",

Zero Reserve is somewhat hard to explain - you need to use it. Just get the code and everything will fall into place.

So when saying 'friends', what you exactly meant is 'retroshare friends'?

Zero Reserve friends is the subset of RetroShare friends who you would grant a credit OR who would grant a credit to you. (Zeroreserve does not assume that credit is mutual)

[oakpacific]

No, you can buy Bitcoins without having any.

So I will buy real Bitcoins with these IOUs I guess?

Exchanges are designed to facilitate trades between strangers...

That is what ZR does. Even if you do buy from a friend, you would not know. Every deal is "remote",

Zero Reserve is somewhat hard to explain - you need to use it. Just get the code and everything will fall into place.

So when saying 'friends', what you exactly meant is 'retroshare friends'?

Zero Reserve friends is the subset of RetroShare friends who you would grant a credit OR who would grant a credit to you. (Zeroreserve does not assume that credit is mutual)

Thanks, so I guess you have something similar to Ripple's 'trust path' then?

[anu]

Thanks, so I guess you have something similar to Ripple's 'trust path' then?

Right - this is the original Ripple / Hawala idea. ZR has nothing whatsoever to do with Ripple Labs, however. ZR differs from the current incarnation of Ripple in that it is tied to Bitcoin, not to XRP. Nobody has a special role in the ZR network.