Has BFL found a new way to screw over it's customers, I'll let you be the judge.

[Threader]

AsicMiner at least bought the gear for their hash farms with share contracts only then only many months after did they sell the hardware in stock.

I have zero confidence that the BFL monarch pre-order money is a distinct and separate money jar from their farm share money jar.

There will be zero transparency as always and way too many unanswered questions

[PuertoLibre]

I can only see this as an epic bombshell to those who bought/converted their order to monarch in the first three days.

That probably means alot of the cards slated for November 2013 are now going into the mining farm and the folks who transfered their orders first to Monarch are almost surely going to be told their order will now be out by January 2014. (Or it will magically just turn out that way despite promises of being on time.)

BFL, always putting the customer first?

[Puppet]

agonizingly long gif

Could you please limit the length of your images to something that doesnt wear out my scroll wheel or my finger tip?
Maybe this will help:
http://chandoo.org/wp/2009/11/17/group-dates-in-pivot-tables/

or use thumbnails.
ty

[Paladin69]

There will be zero transparency as always and way too many unanswered questions

Sums it up well.

[PuertoLibre]

agonizingly long gif

Could you please limit the length of your images to something that doesnt wear out my scroll wheel or my finger tip?
Maybe this will help:
http://chandoo.org/wp/2009/11/17/group-dates-in-pivot-tables/

or use thumbnails.
ty

Let me see what I can do.

[Paladin69]

PuertoLibre, I would modify that gif to be 10 days per change, not 14.

BFL can not be trusted to meet the demanding challenges of time to market.  But they will still get more suckers I'm sure.  Their production ability is piss poor but their marketing and advertising is ace.

[smracer]

I can only see this as an epic bombshell to those who bought/converted their order to monarch in the first three days.

That probably means alot of the cards slated for November 2013 are now going into the mining farm and the folks who transfered their orders first to Monarch are almost surely going to be told their order will now be out by January 2014. (Or it will magically just turn out that way despite promises of being on time.)

BFL, always putting the customer first?

 Hosting contract equipment comes from our bulk production of Monarch cards so contracts will begin to be served in the January / February 2014 time frame.

FWIW

[Puppet]

So much for BFL's claims to never to mine for profit with their own hardware (unless anyone is silly enough to believe they will keep those asics ready and boxed until someone orders the hash rate).

Kinda  predictable, first you sell asics for a huge markup (+screw your customers by not delivering for a year), then you screw them again by self mining, thereby competing with your customers but with vastly cheaper hardware.

[creativex]

They've surely been competing with their customers for some time. Without that motive their actions never made sense.

[Paladin69]

I have the strangest feeling their 28nm is further along than we think because they used money that should've been spent on ordering parts for 65nm products.  Which would explain why shit is taking so long.  Although I still don't think they'll make Jan/Feb.

We'll see what happens.  Such a shit company.

[spoid]

how can this shit be legal

[Gordon Bleu]

a last straw, before everyone wants a refund
nobody wants the Monarch Card

[PuertoLibre]

PuertoLibre, I would modify that gif to be 10 days per change, not 14.

BFL can not be trusted to meet the demanding challenges of time to market.  But they will still get more suckers I'm sure.  Their production ability is piss poor but their marketing and advertising is ace.

With a 10 Day Period.

[Puppet]

how can this shit be legal

I dont think it is. The refusal to refund at least:

The Rule, issued in 1975, requires that marketers who solicit buyers to order merchandise through mail or telephone must have a reasonable basis to expect that they can ship ordered merchandise within the time frame they advertise, or, if no time frame is specified, within 30 days. The Rule also requires that, when a seller cannot ship within the promised time, the seller must obtain the buyer’s consent to a delay in shipping or refund payment for the unshipped merchandise.

http://ftc.gov/opa/2011/10/mailorderrule.shtm

[PuertoLibre]

PuertoLibre, I would modify that gif to be 10 days per change, not 14.

BFL can not be trusted to meet the demanding challenges of time to market.  But they will still get more suckers I'm sure.  Their production ability is piss poor but their marketing and advertising is ace.

With a 10 Day Period.

With a 10 day period of change....wow the Hosting Package 1Th/s....the income pretty much flatlines at around Early February.

Yikes...

(An understatement)

How can BFL sell something which is obviously not even close to profitable? (BTC wise)

They could fix this by making the hosting contract only 1 month long max, or 14 days. They would have to substantially change things around to make it viable.

[Puppet]

How can BFL sell something which is obviously not even close to profitable? (BTC wise)

Hmm.. why would they sell this if they thought it would be profitable?

[mgio]

Why has this company not gone out of business already?

Seriously, can we get some more progress on the class action suit?

Or at least have more people contact their state attorney general and FTC.

We need to shut them down before they scam more people.

They are like a fungus that just won't die.

[tempestb]

These 80% increases month on month are not sustainable.  We're seeing a lot of hash soon, so that makes sense, but by the time we get into 2014, it's going to ease.  Many older miners will become unprofitable and get switched off.  And because you're talking about a compounding of hash every month, you would need to ship almost double the amount of miners month on month.  So that's like saying everyone will ship 10,000 miners in October, 20,000 in November, 40,000 in December, 80,000 in January, 160,000 in February...  The mining market can't sustain that.  If it can, the value of Bitcoin is going to skyrocket as people convert a ton of cash to buy these miners. 

So a lot of these purchases are going to do better than this long term forecasts predict (Although there is always risk)

Not to say BFL is a wise choice to invest in.  There is no value in putting your cash into this until its online and you know what your ROI will really be at the time you make a purchase.  Same with any other service or offering.  Since BFL has a no refund policy, you take a greater risk on losing your money completely than other vendors. 

[bcp19]

PuertoLibre, I would modify that gif to be 10 days per change, not 14.

BFL can not be trusted to meet the demanding challenges of time to market.  But they will still get more suckers I'm sure.  Their production ability is piss poor but their marketing and advertising is ace.

With a 10 Day Period.

With a 10 day period of change....wow the Hosting Package 1Th/s....the income pretty much flatlines at around Early February.

Yikes...

(An understatement)

How can BFL sell something which is obviously not even close to profitable? (BTC wise)

They could fix this by making the hosting contract only 1 month long max, or 14 days. They would have to substantially change things around to make it viable.

You probably don't realize that by May 16 2014 you have difficulty up over 6 billion.  We'd only need something like 54 Petahash to reach that and the total of all estimated preorders today only comes to around 10-14PH.  At that difficulty, anything that cost over $.50 per GH would be unprofitable long term by your table.  But hey, it's not intended to be accurate, it's just BFL you're causing FUD to after all.

[Paladin69]

These 80% increases month on month are not sustainable.  We're seeing a lot of hash soon, so that makes sense, but by the time we get into 2014, it's going to ease.  Many older miners will become unprofitable and get switched off.  And because you're talking about a compounding of hash every month, you would need to ship almost double the amount of miners month on month.  So that's like saying everyone will ship 10,000 miners in October, 20,000 in November, 40,000 in December, 80,000 in January, 160,000 in February...  The mining market can't sustain that.  If it can, the value of Bitcoin is going to skyrocket as people convert a ton of cash to buy these miners.  

So a lot of these purchases are going to do better than this long term forecasts predict (Although there is always risk)

Not to say BFL is a wise choice to invest in.  There is no value in putting your cash into this until its online and you know what your ROI will really be at the time you make a purchase.  Same with any other service or offering.  Since BFL has a no refund policy, you take a greater risk on losing your money completely than other vendors.  

I think it will continually rise.  KnC will go dark after December to start working on their 14nm or whatever.  Probably launching 10, 20, 30, 40TH machines in April or something crazy at today's prices.  I would expect two generation changes per year now.