price about to go UP - reason all the overpriced asics

[thezerg]

It took until July 2013 to get to .2 Phashes/second.  Last weekend, we added that capacity.

http://blockchain.info/charts/hash-rate?timespan=30days&showDataPoints=false&daysAverageString=1&show_header=true&scale=0&address=

[superduh]

i'm sure everyone realizes that since difficulty keeps jumping by 30% each round that my prophecy is about to come to fruition. 
once this happens i'll be announcing my new religious movement for everyone to follow.

[Professor James Moriarty]

 Although that statement is agreeable for many people , don't forget many asic miner owners will want to cash out to cover expenses they spent on these hardwares , they may do that or not I am not sure, that may effect the market or not I am not sure about that neither , but there is that option as well.

[superduh]

 Although that statement is agreeable for many people , don't forget many asic miner owners will want to cash out to cover expenses they spent on these hardwares , they may do that or not I am not sure, that may effect the market or not I am not sure about that neither , but there is that option as well.

my point is that cashing out now will NEVER cover their expenses to begin with. it'll barely cover a fourth of the cost now. the only thing that they would want to cover is electricity (should be cheap) and possible minimum payments if credit cards were used. otherwise, holding is the only thing that makes sense since cashing out to fiat now means they are losing money.

really simple example: you spent $10,000 to buy something.
in the first month it brought you back $1000
you are down $9000.
does cashing out that $1000 to cover the $10000 make sense?
it automatically puts you at a loss. a big one. so if people wait till the $1000 appreciates towards $10.000 they can at least hope to cover their losses.

people are in for big losses if they cash out from asics delivered since beginning of august.

[rampantparanoia]

 Although that statement is agreeable for many people , don't forget many asic miner owners will want to cash out to cover expenses they spent on these hardwares , they may do that or not I am not sure, that may effect the market or not I am not sure about that neither , but there is that option as well.

my point is that cashing out now will NEVER cover their expenses to begin with. it'll barely cover a fourth of the cost now. the only thing that they would want to cover is electricity (should be cheap) and possible minimum payments if credit cards were used. otherwise, holding is the only thing that makes sense since cashing out to fiat now means they are losing money.

really simple example: you spent $10,000 to buy something.
in the first month it brought you back $1000
you are down $9000.
does cashing out that $1000 to cover the $10000 make sense?
it automatically puts you at a loss. a big one. so if people wait till the $1000 appreciates towards $10.000 they can at least hope to cover their losses.

people are in for big losses if they cash out from asics delivered since beginning of august.

I think you're making a big assumption.

There are miners that have been simply collecting coins they've minted and storing them for a rainy day.
Now that when they see their miners are no longer profitable, they'll want to recuperate their starting costs & some pocket change (at a minimum)
Sure, new miners will not be able to recover their investments... but there are thousands and thousands of already established miners waiting to pay off their investments.

[superduh]

 Although that statement is agreeable for many people , don't forget many asic miner owners will want to cash out to cover expenses they spent on these hardwares , they may do that or not I am not sure, that may effect the market or not I am not sure about that neither , but there is that option as well.

my point is that cashing out now will NEVER cover their expenses to begin with. it'll barely cover a fourth of the cost now. the only thing that they would want to cover is electricity (should be cheap) and possible minimum payments if credit cards were used. otherwise, holding is the only thing that makes sense since cashing out to fiat now means they are losing money.

really simple example: you spent $10,000 to buy something.
in the first month it brought you back $1000
you are down $9000.
does cashing out that $1000 to cover the $10000 make sense?
it automatically puts you at a loss. a big one. so if people wait till the $1000 appreciates towards $10.000 they can at least hope to cover their losses.

people are in for big losses if they cash out from asics delivered since beginning of august.

I think you're making a big assumption.

There are miners that have been simply collecting coins they've minted and storing them for a rainy day.
Now that when they see their miners are no longer profitable, they'll want to recuperate their starting costs & some pocket change (at a minimum)
Sure, new miners will not be able to recover their investments... but there are thousands and thousands of already established miners waiting to pay off their investments.

They've already paid them off. your assumption is contradictory too - that those who were profitable have waited to sell and those who it will be mining at a loss will sell too instead of waiting.  there is also a lot more "new" miners than old ones by a huge order of magnitude.  Just wait and watch .

[murraypaul]

doubt it, what's the point of only partially repaying off your credit card at all. they'll just make minimum payments and wait it out. only mgio here sounds like he wants to sell at a neverending loss

So you are betting on BTC increasing fast enough to outweigh the 20%+ interest being charged for not paying off the balance?

[superduh]

%

doubt it, what's the point of only partially repaying off your credit card at all. they'll just make minimum payments and wait it out. only mgio here sounds like he wants to sell at a neverending loss

So you are betting on BTC increasing fast enough to outweigh the 20%+ interest being charged for not paying off the balance?

20% (kind of high- most credit cards should be less unless you have terrible history)  YEARLY interest...  100% yes
Some aren't borrowing money- and only 4% yearly interest if a equity line was used
anyways, bitcoin's value keeps rising at a pace that is much higher than credit cards charge. you are better off waiting and betting on the trend of 4 years then paying it all off at a loss regardless. it's really really common sense

edited - was typing off a tablet and those are a bitch to write off

[notme]

%

doubt it, what's the point of only partially repaying off your credit card at all. they'll just make minimum payments and wait it out. only mgio here sounds like he wants to sell at a neverending loss

So you are betting on BTC increasing fast enough to outweigh the 20%+ interest being charged for not paying off the balance?

20%,  kind of high,  YEARLY interest...  100% yes
Some aren't borrowing money.. and only 4% yearly interest if a mortgage was used

I could have financed a rig at 3% per year with a credit card.  However, I paid for mine with bitcoins @ $180.

But nice try.

[ElectricMucus]

%

doubt it, what's the point of only partially repaying off your credit card at all. they'll just make minimum payments and wait it out. only mgio here sounds like he wants to sell at a neverending loss

So you are betting on BTC increasing fast enough to outweigh the 20%+ interest being charged for not paying off the balance?

20%,  kind of high,  YEARLY interest...  100% yes
Some aren't borrowing money.. and only 4% yearly interest if a mortgagefraud was used

cool!

[superduh]

%

doubt it, what's the point of only partially repaying off your credit card at all. they'll just make minimum payments and wait it out. only mgio here sounds like he wants to sell at a neverending loss

So you are betting on BTC increasing fast enough to outweigh the 20%+ interest being charged for not paying off the balance?

20%,  kind of high,  YEARLY interest...  100% yes
Some aren't borrowing money.. and only 4% yearly interest if a mortgagefraud was used

cool!

Take out a legal equity line.. That's what I actually meant

[superduh]

%

doubt it, what's the point of only partially repaying off your credit card at all. they'll just make minimum payments and wait it out. only mgio here sounds like he wants to sell at a neverending loss

So you are betting on BTC increasing fast enough to outweigh the 20%+ interest being charged for not paying off the balance?

20%,  kind of high,  YEARLY interest...  100% yes
Some aren't borrowing money.. and only 4% yearly interest if a mortgage was used

I could have financed a rig at 3% per year with a credit card.  However, I paid for mine with bitcoins @ $180.

But nice try.

Since bitcoins were at 180 for only 2/3 days.  I wonder what you could have ordered at the time.  I'm pretty sure that you will not reach ROI even at 180. Unless you care to share

[notme]

%

doubt it, what's the point of only partially repaying off your credit card at all. they'll just make minimum payments and wait it out. only mgio here sounds like he wants to sell at a neverending loss

So you are betting on BTC increasing fast enough to outweigh the 20%+ interest being charged for not paying off the balance?

20%,  kind of high,  YEARLY interest...  100% yes
Some aren't borrowing money.. and only 4% yearly interest if a mortgage was used

I could have financed a rig at 3% per year with a credit card.  However, I paid for mine with bitcoins @ $180.

But nice try.

Since bitcoins were at 180 for only 2/3 days.  I wonder what you could have ordered at the time.  I'm pretty sure that you will not reach ROI even at 180. Unless you care to share

Depends on how you calculate ROI.  I spent 19 btc on 50 GH/s that should arrive in a week or two.  I will not ROI in BTC terms unless price craters and difficulty follows, but at the time, I was looking to reduce some direct price exposure.  Since I am completely unleveraged, I will likely ROI in USD terms if I am patient.  Electric costs are low, plus it is almost the time of year where heat is more valuable than electricity anyway.

[superduh]

%

doubt it, what's the point of only partially repaying off your credit card at all. they'll just make minimum payments and wait it out. only mgio here sounds like he wants to sell at a neverending loss

So you are betting on BTC increasing fast enough to outweigh the 20%+ interest being charged for not paying off the balance?

20%,  kind of high,  YEARLY interest...  100% yes
Some aren't borrowing money.. and only 4% yearly interest if a mortgage was used

I could have financed a rig at 3% per year with a credit card.  However, I paid for mine with bitcoins @ $180.

But nice try.

Since bitcoins were at 180 for only 2/3 days.  I wonder what you could have ordered at the time.  I'm pretty sure that you will not reach ROI even at 180. Unless you care to share

Depends on how you calculate ROI.  I spent 19 btc on 50 GH/s that should arrive in a week or two.  I will not ROI in BTC terms unless price craters and difficulty follows, but at the time, I was looking to reduce some direct price exposure.  Since I am completely unleveraged, I will likely ROI in USD terms if I am patient.  Electric costs are low, plus it is almost the time of year where heat is more valuable than electricity anyway.

you are looking to get about 3 btc from the 50ghs over it's life. 3btc at todays prices is about $400 usd. if you spent 19btc at $180  = $3420 is how much you spent in fiat and 19btc is how much you spent in bitcoins. the only way you can even reach ROI in fiat is if prices go up a lot. you are looking at btc/usd @$1000+ to get your money back. people would have been better off 'financially' not ordering or doing anything at all. don't worry pretty much all miners who ordered after may (and most bfl orders) are facing the same situation.

[notme]

I don't put much faith in long term price or difficulty predictions, especially without visible rigor.  I am a long term supporter of cryptocurrency, but I have my long term holdings and I also spend btc on various goods and services.  Having a small stream of btc whenever I need heat seems like the best thing in the world when I'm cold.

[superduh]

lots of people are cancelling and sellers are opting out of traditional reversible payment methods.
btc garden is here too
the monster rises

[cowandtea]

Price is about to go down, due to bitfunder issue.

[superduh]

Price is about to go down, due to bitfunder issue.

are you kidding me? bitfunder has very little to do with bitcoin prices and more to do with company (mostly mining) valuations.
i doubt if people sold shares for cheap on bitfunder that has any correlation with them "cashing out" of bitcoins

most of the time people sell for cheap is because they think the next person will sell for even less and they can buy more.

anyways, price has actually went up since yesterday.

edit: btct closed down and had 0 effect on price and it was much bigger volume than bitfunder

[adamstgBit]

interesting, i guess bitfunder doesn't want to be deal with US regulation.

bitfunder create a lot of demand for bitcoin.

bad news all over yet prices continue to rise

wtf

[Carlton Banks]

bad news all over yet prices continue to rise

wtf

Bad news out of established financial world is worse. So it's a speculative price rise.