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Author Topic: The Space Industry: An example of why governments fail and freedom prevails.  (Read 9812 times)
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July 19, 2011, 10:38:32 PM
 #41

I don't think a lot of you realize that things aren't expensive forever.
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July 19, 2011, 10:55:55 PM
 #42

I don't think a lot of you realize that things aren't expensive forever.

Heh... Indeed, I had skipped that fact. Thanks for reminding us, atlas, that Today's multimillion-dollar composite material is tomorrows draperies.

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July 19, 2011, 11:34:19 PM
 #43

In conclusion it's going to be fucking expensive.

No shit? Ever think about how much money we could save simply by not blowing people up every day?

Hmm yes virgin routinely spends all of it's money on blowing people up. If you're gonna make a comparison about how much virgin wants a space station don't then fall back onto the argument that somehow the government spending less on defence will help that.
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July 19, 2011, 11:38:16 PM
 #44

In conclusion it's going to be fucking expensive.

No shit? Ever think about how much money we could save simply by not blowing people up every day?

Hmm yes virgin routinely spends all of it's money on blowing people up. If you're gonna make a comparison about how much virgin wants a space station don't then fall back onto the argument that somehow the government spending less on defence will help that.

Where, exactly, do you think that money, not to mention the resources, come from? Stolen from the private sector.

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July 20, 2011, 02:45:13 PM
 #45

I think you're underestimating how much rocketry costs.
I think you underestimate how badly Virgin wants to be in space

"space", sure, orbit, nope.

they have nothing even on the drawing board for getting to orbit.  spaceshipthree will basically act as an ultra-high altitude, ultra fast, private jet.

virgin galactic is useless for any practical purpose, yet it's being held up as a grand success of private industry.

if you want a private company to crow about, try spaceX, which actually had got stuff into orbit.  but then, the vast majority of their money comes from launch contracts with .... NASA and the US air force!  and their launch facilities are borrowed from.....NASA and the US air force!
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July 20, 2011, 03:09:03 PM
 #46

In conclusion it's going to be fucking expensive.

No shit? Ever think about how much money we could save simply by not blowing people up every day?

Hmm yes virgin routinely spends all of it's money on blowing people up. If you're gonna make a comparison about how much virgin wants a space station don't then fall back onto the argument that somehow the government spending less on defence will help that.

Where, exactly, do you think that money, not to mention the resources, come from? Stolen from the private sector.

I forgot how the USA entire space budget is paid solely by virgin group, despite their complicated series of offshore trusts that mitigate a huge portion of the tax they should be paying.

And yeah, currently almost all space development is either paid for, contracted by or done on behalf of nasa, simply because they have money to spend on it and because any sort of space research is fucking expensive.
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July 20, 2011, 07:01:06 PM
 #47

In conclusion it's going to be fucking expensive.

No shit? Ever think about how much money we could save simply by not blowing people up every day?

Hmm yes virgin routinely spends all of it's money on blowing people up. If you're gonna make a comparison about how much virgin wants a space station don't then fall back onto the argument that somehow the government spending less on defence will help that.

Where, exactly, do you think that money, not to mention the resources, come from? Stolen from the private sector.

I forgot how the USA entire space budget is paid solely by virgin group, despite their complicated series of offshore trusts that mitigate a huge portion of the tax they should be paying.

And yeah, currently almost all space development is either paid for, contracted by or done on behalf of nasa, simply because they have money to spend on it and because any sort of space research is fucking expensive.

You know, it's funny. Even though you quoted my exact words, you still try to put words in my mouth. Never said it all came out of Richard Branson's pocket. But it does come out of the pocket of the people who would be willing to give it to Branson for a ticket into space, and as I said previously, most of that money gets wasted blowing brown people up. If they either stopped stealing it, or stopped wasting it, we'd be back on the moon in a decade, easy.

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July 20, 2011, 10:11:31 PM
 #48

I don't think a lot of you realize that things aren't expensive forever.

Except energy. Which has been extremely cheap for about 200 years and now will start getting more expensive for the rest of your (and my) lives.
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July 20, 2011, 10:17:52 PM
 #49

I don't think a lot of you realize that things aren't expensive forever.

Except energy. Which has been extremely cheap for about 200 years and now will start getting more expensive for the rest of your (and my) lives.

Really? 'cuz it seems to me, that there's this huge fusion reactor, just spewing out energy, and all we have to do is start catching it.

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July 21, 2011, 12:04:56 AM
 #50

I don't think a lot of you realize that things aren't expensive forever.

Except energy. Which has been extremely cheap for about 200 years and now will start getting more expensive for the rest of your (and my) lives.

shame the very specific forms of energy rockets need to operate on is not cheap, plentiful or safe.
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July 21, 2011, 02:44:10 PM
 #51

A missile used to kill Libyan children can pay the wages of 10 teachers for a year.


If the US used the money to pay teachers, do not you think that US would have soon sufficient technology to go to Jupiter even?

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July 21, 2011, 06:29:57 PM
 #52

I don't think a lot of you realize that things aren't expensive forever.

Except energy. Which has been extremely cheap for about 200 years and now will start getting more expensive for the rest of your (and my) lives.

shame the very specific forms of energy rockets need to operate on is not cheap, plentiful or safe.

Aaaactually... we have plenty of salt water, so all we need is to drop some wires into it, hook it up to a power source (solar/wind/whatever), and we can get hydrogen and oxygen, which make up the main (non-booster) rocket fuel used in the space shuttle.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocket_propellant#History_2
Did I mention Konstantin Tsiolkovsky is my gramps? (+3xGreat) Cheesy

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July 21, 2011, 06:45:56 PM
 #53

Did I mention Konstantin Tsiolkovsky is my gramps? (+3xGreat) Cheesy


Yes you did but you are going to sound like you're actually his broken vinyl recording if you mention it again! Cheesy


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July 25, 2011, 03:49:29 PM
 #54

Of course the irony here (which is of course completely lost on a pup such as yourself) Atlas is that you are typing this on a computer and sending it over the Internet for us to see.  Computer technology sprung out of NASA research (invented the first microprocessor) while you can pen a letter to DARPA thanking them for the Internet.


I'll keep my politics out of your economics if you keep your economics out of my politics.

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July 25, 2011, 08:22:09 PM
 #55

Of course the irony here (which is of course completely lost on a pup such as yourself) Atlas is that you are typing this on a computer and sending it over the Internet for us to see.  Computer technology sprung out of NASA research (invented the first microprocessor) while you can pen a letter to DARPA thanking them for the Internet.

Which if they still had ahold of, would still be Green-on-black text only.

And Dialup.

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July 25, 2011, 09:20:38 PM
 #56

Of course the irony here (which is of course completely lost on a pup such as yourself) Atlas is that you are typing this on a computer and sending it over the Internet for us to see.  Computer technology sprung out of NASA research (invented the first microprocessor) while you can pen a letter to DARPA thanking them for the Internet.

Which if they still had ahold of, would still be Green-on-black text only.

And Dialup.

Your Point: that government doesn't commoditize technology well which is best left to the private sector.

Agreed, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't need to be invented first.

I'll keep my politics out of your economics if you keep your economics out of my politics.

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July 25, 2011, 09:41:21 PM
 #57

Of course the irony here (which is of course completely lost on a pup such as yourself) Atlas is that you are typing this on a computer and sending it over the Internet for us to see.  Computer technology sprung out of NASA research (invented the first microprocessor) while you can pen a letter to DARPA thanking them for the Internet.

Which if they still had ahold of, would still be Green-on-black text only.

And Dialup.

Your Point: that government doesn't commoditize technology well which is best left to the private sector.

Agreed, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't need to be invented first.

Your point: That only Government can come up with new technology.

Patently false.

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July 25, 2011, 09:58:37 PM
 #58

Your point: That only Government can come up with new technology.

Patently false.

a great many things we use daily were invented at a government mandated basic science research institute, namely bell labs.  said labs now focus on "immediately marketable technologies", rather the basic science and material physics research they once did.

- the transistor
- the photovoltic cell
- the microwave radio relay
- the concept of the laser and several specific types of laser.
- the MOSFET transistor
- the CCD sensor
- the C programming language and UNIX
- fibre optics
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July 25, 2011, 10:12:39 PM
 #59

Your point: That only Government can come up with new technology.

Patently false.

a great many things we use daily were invented at a government mandated basic science research institute, namely bell labs.  said labs now focus on "immediately marketable technologies", rather the basic science and material physics research they once did.

And a great many MORE things were invented privately. Such as the pen that started this whole line of reasoning, and FAR too many more to list. Please read my statement again, I've bolded the relevant section.

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July 25, 2011, 10:51:25 PM
 #60

Your point: That only Government can come up with new technology.

Patently false.

a great many things we use daily were invented at a government mandated basic science research institute, namely bell labs.  said labs now focus on "immediately marketable technologies", rather the basic science and material physics research they once did.

And a great many MORE things were invented privately. Such as the pen that started this whole line of reasoning, and FAR too many more to list. Please read my statement again, I've bolded the relevant section.

There is no reason to conclude that just because the government helped fund certain endeavors or because the government grants private monopolies to inventors via patents, that therefore these things would never have been invented without the government.

"We will not find a solution to political problems in cryptography, but we can win a major battle in the arms race and gain a new territory of freedom for several years.

Governments are good at cutting off the heads of a centrally controlled networks, but pure P2P networks are holding their own."
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