ASIC's of any flavor? Any that make sense to ROI now? Or is it lost cause?

[Searing]

OK, sh*t got real....looking over my mining operation, I'm good till say around summer, baring some price downward disaster on scrypt-pow.

But looking at my finances on mining coming in (scrypt-pow profits) vs what I will owe the nice USA tax folks, (50% 40% Tax Bracket and 10% added for my state)

I'm about 20k, behind the 8 ball, after the first month this year (Jan 2018) (be careful wishing to be a mid-sized to big miner..you may surely get it)

Anyway, thus....I either for this month need to set aside (on the assumption of NO real and NOT 'dubious' equipment...thus stuck) 10k for the tax man, or

I need to blow the full 20k on ASIC equipment that is NOT dubious (I know probably should get a GPU rig, but I am dumb...thus put off by GPU rigs, as have run

ASIC's of many flavors since 2013)

So does anyone, have any ideas, of anything of any ASIC flavor that makes any kind of sense? Bitmain is going to have a glut of scrypt-pow (3 months worth of orders

March/April in scrypt-pow miners alone), Baikal is 'flakey' IMHO, and way,way overpriced.....Innsilicon the A5 is way over priced and is very consistant on all their products

in being 2-3 months LATE....dragonmint is iffy...etc etc

As you can see, everyone gets the trend.....or sees what is going on above...ITS A FRIGGING ASIC DESERT, (or at least from a coin to equipment xfer point of view)


So you have to ask the question, is it WORTH THE RISK, in ANY manner....

More worrisome to someone with a tax burden of say 25% plus above 25% equipment deduction compressed....toss a coin 50/50 risk, if you are in that camp, even makes

less sense than my situation/hope.


I have status, I have references, I can review a product or forward such to folk more reputable then myself, I can do escrow or again can refer to folk more reputable than

myself as well... but damn it, there has to be some LEGIT ASIC miner operation, (you'd think) that would be wise to have a demo reviewed or a group buy using legit escrow

thru bitcointalk...at least from the point of getting the word out.....

In 2013, you would throw up a legit youtube video of your ASIC product, invite press to look it over, and you could pay for it with frigging PAYPAL for crying out loud...now we

get 'iffy' ship times/ a hell of a lot of pre-mine the stuff first/ bitcoin or in bitmain's case BCH only/ no group buys/ no escrow...and are told to lump it or leave it...

Anyway, thus my rant above. I'm sure more than a few folk on here with the same concerns...


So anyway, consider this thread a resource to research some ASIC's (in existence or supposed future existence) ...folk find out what you can, hash it out, approach

hopefully, SOME ASIC makers, current or brand new...with safeguards to do demos and/or escrow and/or group buys and/or reviews of your product from a group of

'legit' future customers on here, that can help push/demo/review and promote your 'legit' ASIC product....(This means you Bitmain...if anyone needed good press these

days on a group buy and restoring trust it is you guys..if for no other reason then to improve your crummy customer support...)


If NOTHING of an ASIC unicorn exists anymore that is worth roping and riding, well then I/we probably need to know this now..rather than later

Feel free to post on my above 'delusions' and also be aware I just opened up this thread to 'scammers are us' they are all gonna show up.....so IF such an ASIC mnfg

of a legit nature, does exisit.....prepare to be met with certain criteria and goals of proof of your 'hopeful' legitness...it will not be easy, but I think the folk following this

thread, if you have a good product, would be an excellent 'large mob' of ASIC cheerleaders......indeed!

Ok, let the rout begin...rumors/hope/find/where/how/what/what price/escrow/reviews/demos/...let the map the ASIC wilderness project begin!

brad

[Metroid]

Only whoever is in china and is a big miner like bitmain and friends are winning. They pay close to nothing for the workforce, they get away from law enforcement issues and trust me even most of the taxes. I say, right now the crypto market is only going in one direction and that is bad.

It is a lost cause till things calm down or normalize.

[Searing]

Only whoever is in china and is a big miner like bitmain and friends are winning. They pay close to nothing for the workforce, they get away from law enforcement issues and trust me even most of the taxes. I say, right now the crypto market is only going in one direction and that is bad.

Yes, this is my fear, but occasionally, some ASIC manufacturer of any flavor (x11,scrypt-pow,etc) has managed to slip some products thru with little notice...I see this as a long shot

but as an example I had the chance on a pinidea miner in fall 2016 I think it was, 6 months before Baikal miners shipped...only 10 were shipped to the USA, probably because pinidea decided to mine themselves....passed on such...was too iffy, the China site i could not read (man do we need a contact that speaks English that is legit in China!) so missed that boat...but those
10 guys that got one mined in the states as the ony 10 ASICS at that time and those 10 guys, just killed it for a year...sigh (so many missed boats)

When Baikal first came out, they had a legit group buy, Innsilicon as well, (if as usual late) there have been others.....the problem is they either get full of themselves and act like bitmain on customer support, get overwhelmed by orders or have no way to check them out in a legit manner by 1) having someone demo a unit on bitcointalk or 2) having a group buy on bitcointalk

Ideally, we'd be approached to demo a unit and then be allowed first for our cheerleading to do a group buy, up to usually a certain number....still risky, but somewhat manageable...

Just clutching at straws here, but again I remember a day when they tossed up a demo, called the press, did a group buy on here, you could pay with paypal, much cheerleading

on here if the product was good and the result was you were SELF FUNDED on your ASIC EQUIPMENT launch...or at least that is how KNC MIners did it ... on original 2013 1st batch

all from design to shipping in a period of less than 6 months.....we need to find that kind of 'hungry' asic maker again and play cheerleader or at least get some deals from

current manufacturers out there..that make sense (last I think it was group buy I saw was lame $50 off if you got 5 units.....forget who it was)

anyway, thus the thread....a fool and hope this is ..ASIC wise..but hey....I need some frigging ASIC equipment with a LEGIT chance to ROI, besides the usual suspects of baikal,

bitmain, innsilicon, etc

BUT, I also want them to be demo'd and certified as legit by the consensus of folk on bitcon talk ...via again demo/review of product ..tour the plant....etc

NO reason, in 2018, I should have to put up with crap/risk that I could do with PayPal in 2013....just saying

anyway, vent away, shaking the tree may do no good...but I feel better

[Elder III]

If the Asic market is looking dubious, how about pre-built and ready to go GPU rigs? Philipma has one of these for review right now and last that I heard, he was quite pleased with it.

https://www.autominer.at/

[Searing]

If the Asic market is looking dubious, how about pre-built and ready to go GPU rigs? Philipma has one of these for review right now and last that I heard, he was quite pleased with it.

https://www.autominer.at/

I have found I am too dumb to keep a GPU rig up in any manner...gave it up a long time ago

and that gets me back to the ROI stuff......with the link above and cards...I doubt the ROI is any better than a current Bitmain ASIC rig


thus the problem...does anything make sense to spend crypto on to get a future ASIC or have we entered the age ...where a mnfg like bitmain

can mine the beasts and ROI and the rest of us are now out of luck...at this point in time?

I see nothing of any ASIC FLAVOR that makes sense.....just saying.... (sigh)

[puwaha]

The problem is that there are a lot more miners now than before so difficulty becomes a thing to calculate before any ASIC purchase.  ASIC producers don’t even have to advertise that much any more.  They get sold out in hours.  There really isn’t any incentive to have anyone test it here and setup group buys.

I generally like the Baikals because they can do more than one algo, so they tend to have a longer life span than most single algo ASICs.

[Searing]

The problem is that there are a lot more miners now than before so difficulty becomes a thing to calculate before any ASIC purchase.  ASIC producers don’t even have to advertise that much any more.  They get sold out in hours.  There really isn’t any incentive to have anyone test it here and setup group buys.

I generally like the Baikals because they can do more than one algo, so they tend to have a longer life span than most single algo ASICs.

Last year I tried to buy over 40 baikal cubes when they were available...2 attempts 2 different batches of 20 each

..I got 1 cube on the 1st batch when only 1 unit was available...I was TOLD I had in BOTH

batches later...I had the units and they would send me payment info...in both cases they said they sold them to someone else by accident ..er sorry...

this was not 1x for 1 batch..but 2x as it happened on a 2nd batch they offered and I tried again and I had 3 different assurances from sales/tech/email and 2nd sales email

all saying all was fine on that last attempt at 20 units..

of course, that was fantasy....they admitted they screwed up in both cases...

they then offered me 1 baikal cube they had there at 3am cst the email sent..from china..but because I did not reply in 1 hour they sold that too...yeah too bad I was asleep!

Also know folk who sent in wire xfers back about that time and am unsure if the EVER got their money back on the same kinda thing

thus I like my 1 only baikal 300mh cube...but sending wire xfers to those guys on the THEORY you'd get a miner ..IMHO and my experience...more than a bit IFFY

I'd only trust a group buy with baikal...er, MAYBE,  by that I mean a mess of us getting a mess of them in some manner.....otherwise you'd simply get stepped on ....with

large order on a wire xfer or whatever, maybe you'd have some clout to get something on such a cluster as I had...but my orders were for 20 in each case after

the first batch and I got blown off..so not a big fan of how they do business

[Juggar]

The problem is that there are a lot more miners now than before so difficulty becomes a thing to calculate before any ASIC purchase.  ASIC producers don’t even have to advertise that much any more.  They get sold out in hours.  There really isn’t any incentive to have anyone test it here and setup group buys.

I generally like the Baikals because they can do more than one algo, so they tend to have a longer life span than most single algo ASICs.

Last year I tried to buy over 40 baikal cubes when they were available...2 attempts 2 different batches of 20 each

..I got 1 cube on the 1st batch when only 1 unit was available...I was TOLD I had in BOTH

batches later...I had the units and they would send me payment info...in both cases they said they sold them to someone else by accident ..er sorry...

this was not 1x for 1 batch..but 2x as it happened on a 2nd batch they offered and I tried again and I had 3 different assurances from sales/tech/email and 2nd sales email

all saying all was fine on that last attempt at 20 units..

of course, that was fantasy....they admitted they screwed up in both cases...

they then offered me 1 baikal cube they had there at 3am cst the email sent..from china..but because I did not reply in 1 hour they sold that too...yeah too bad I was asleep!

Also know folk who sent in wire xfers back about that time and am unsure if the EVER got their money back on the same kinda thing

thus I like my 1 only baikal 300mh cube...but sending wire xfers to those guys on the THEORY you'd get a miner ..IMHO and my experience...more than a bit IFFY

I'd only trust a group buy with baikal...er, MAYBE,  by that I mean a mess of us getting a mess of them in some manner.....otherwise you'd simply get stepped on ....with

large order on a wire xfer or whatever, maybe you'd have some clout to get something on such a cluster as I had...but my orders were for 20 in each case after

the first batch and I got blown off..so not a big fan of how they do business

Difficult and frustrating to read your wall o' text. You need proper formatting and maybe less run on sentences. 

[nsummy]

This post is a little confusing for a variety of reasons.  For one, the top tax bracket is 37%.  For another federal taxes are computed annually, not monthly, so while you may want to set aside 10k for future taxes, its not like you need to spend money this month for a deduction.  If you were inclined you could dump every penny you earned into equipment on December 31 and be fine.

With that said, I don't think you are going to find any unknown, under the radar miners out there right now.  Its now business as usual for the existing companies to pre-sell a miner months before it ships, so anything out there is relatively well known.  One company I see that you didn't mention though is Ebang.  If you don't want to go the GPU route my advice would be to look into Cryptonight mining.  There are plenty of interesting setups that rely on CPU that could make some decent money.  Another option would be to leave your earnings into crypto until you find something you want to buy, that way its not yet taxable income.

[cyberdeity]

If just looking at per-day revenue, Baikal holds the top 3 spots on NiceHash's calculator:

Baikal Giant B per day = $28
Baikal Giant X10 per day = $19
Baikal Giant+ per day = $13

The Bitmain A3 is doing decent at the moment too I read, but the outlook on that one is probably not great.

I guess it all depends on how cheaply you can pick up the ASIC.  If someone is panic selling you might get a great deal and make a few bucks.  Those Baikal's are super expensive currently, so ROI doesn't look juicy.

[Searing]

This post is a little confusing for a variety of reasons.  For one, the top tax bracket is 37%.  For another federal taxes are computed annually, not monthly, so while you may want to set aside 10k for future taxes, its not like you need to spend money this month for a deduction.  If you were inclined you could dump every penny you earned into equipment on December 31 and be fine.

With that said, I don't think you are going to find any unknown, under the radar miners out there right now.  Its now business as usual for the existing companies to pre-sell a miner months before it ships, so anything out there is relatively well known.  One company I see that you didn't mention though is Ebang.  If you don't want to go the GPU route my advice would be to look into Cryptonight mining.  There are plenty of interesting setups that rely on CPU that could make some decent money.  Another option would be to leave your earnings into crypto until you find something you want to buy, that way its not yet taxable income.

37%  federal and my state fee is 10% and then add soc sec as a small business...so more or less 50% set aside is what I figure...


as to equipment WHEN YOU NEED TO BUY THEM it usually means you can't find any.....you need to find equip at the time when it is available but not so odd that you can't ROI
in any manner....as for bitmain units now...they have 3 months of accumulated bitmain asic's of many flavors (scrypt-pow/x11/sha-256/siacoin) BUT they have not shipped any
of note (espcially scrypt-pow) for 3 months..have been mining themselves driving up difficulty and the bitmain hoard IMHO.....thus that dump of equipment is gonna be epic along
with some other scrypt pow units from others in March/April...thus NOT a fan...

Again, have NOT found any ASIC'S that make sense to get, with cyrpto, to offset taxes since Sept 2017.....and I've been in this since 2013 and yes..there have been YEARS
when you could not get any scrypt-pow equipment NEW (2015 to the middle of 2016) ..Indeed the Bitmain L3 250mh at 400w was NEVER even advertised in the USA site...thus
when it makes sense to get ASIC's the big guys like bitmain, keep them for themselves and mine...

so a thin window, when you can do the calcs/guess on difficulty/see some equipment and act on it with a PROBABLY 12-14 month ROI..right now I expect any price increase
of scrypt pow due to Litecoin pay and/or other stuff of a price increase in scrypt-pow to be offset by the amount of scrypt pow asic's hitting in March/April...and am hopeful
the return after the fact (with scrypt-pow increase in price of say LTC) makes up for the slam of equipment and difficulty

so new equipment say end of april will get what I'm getting now for my old equipment at best...thus why get asic equipment on my part...with ROI'd owned equipment here

and of course ..sure I would like 20k of equipment now...and am making 6k a month..so say I wait till June..then to offset taxes above (more or less) in full .I'd be looking at

(after electric) about say another 20k (IF I don't cash out any coin again under 1 year and 1 day at 40% captial gains and of course my 10% state taxes on top of such)

so 40k behind or I would owe (more or less) 20k to IRS.....

So IF, MINING REVENUE, is what you are living off of, and you are NOT getting new equipment that makes sense, eventually by say December with no income stream, you

could be in a world of hurt....thus my situation is ....at 50% tax rate (more or less) and 25% equip deduction on taxes (I likely will pay...I could get lucky and not be too bad

but tough to assume) the 25% MORE risk for buying equipment for the full amount gross $40k say by July.....RATHER then pay the tax folk 20K set aside ...this at 25% more

risk with equipment IS attractive.....IF of course, equip exists that at least is in the ball park of 12-14 months ROI...and of course equipment comes off GROSS so that is a

40K investment in equipment at say 25% more risk, then just paying IRS with above equipment perks (25%) ....

which, (except maybe Baikal, which I don't trust as far as I can throw my 300mh baikal cube to even deliver....) (also overpriced IMHO) I got nothing in the 12-14 month

ballpark

prove me wrong please

brad

[dhouse]

zomg that is a crazy amount of taxes 

[Searing]

zomg that is a crazy amount of taxes  

making too much mining on crypto...or at least did last year...at the max percentage ..maybe it goes down this year...and maybe I don't make as much

(you get a crap load of scrypt-pow equipment that was IN the mail...when LTC was 4.15 USD and it goes to 50 bucks SOON thereafter, there are tax consequences)

anyway, only income is mining....can't count on equipment that makes sense to buy (yet) becoming available. Also, current miners may flame out by

say July 2018...thus best to approach this whole tax situation on a month to month basis...IF I am high at the end of the year 10% or 15% so be it...but

if my income (mining) poops out w/o any re-investment in crypto equipment that makes sense (vs HODL) ..well... would be damn hard to make

that up to the tax man with NO (maybe) Income Stream from Mining by Dec 2018.

Thus this thread and my play for NON-DUBIOUS actual (best guess) 12-14 month ROI ASIC equipment...*, unlike Baikal...I can actually get some*....which

at this point in time seems more than silly (especially bitmain) (see previous posts on this thread) I have some LISK I can sell, 20% capital gains, plus the 10% usual to the state...BUT, I got that for CENTS ON THE DOLLAR vs the $25 that LISK is now...so, that would almost be 100% gains, so, it MAY still make more sense to use LTC mined this year for bills, with that in mind....and just eat the 40% and 10% state taxes.....and dribble along....in HODL mode for what I can get out after the fact...

*fun times* *wanted to be more than a hobby miner* *be careful what you wish for, you may surely get it*

Again, this is USA where you are taxed on what you MINE, as well as capital gains when you sell...yeah...fun, fun, fun...

[Miningtry]

Any news of new upcoming ASICs miners or new gen GTX cards? Meaby new hardware will bring balance in mining.

[Searing]

Any news of new upcoming ASICs miners or new gen GTX cards? Meaby new hardware will bring balance in mining.

what this thread is about,,,,, dig,dig,dig.....Daddy needs some new ASIC's or won't be able to afford future Blonde Barbie Trophy Wife Mommy