all finished

[stex2009]

Dude waldo is not going to give u your money back bcus that would mean he would have do refund everyone else and he probably used your BTC to buy another rig Sad so best thing you can do is just live with it for now and see what happens with KnCminer Sad sry bro

I thought waldo already paid for this device ?

I Believe so but KnCminer is late and everyone is growing inpatient  

So this justifies you making up lies and accusations? You need to calm down. Theres hundreds of shareholders in the same position as you- but only you and 2 others seem to not understand logic. The situation is out of my hands unless they refund us or they ship. That's like the 17th time I've said that. 200 other people understand it, why can't the 3 of you?

Thanks for the reply waldo, I'm not trying to offend you and yes I do believe your using our btc to buy more miners (Unless you have 1000BTC in your wallet to buy them so often) but I don't really care how your doing it honest:!)(as long as I get what I payed for:) and I don't care if the miners are late and I know that its our of your hands. Your making a living out of us trusting you with our BTC and your doing a goooooood job at, Honest!) But don't think I wont speak my mind and tell it like it is (I don't care if you get offended). I am a very forward guy and defend people for a living so im not afraid to get my hand dirty. So again you should welcome any good or negative feed back from you BTC share holders.
God Bless YOU Waldo!)

Either you're the biggest troll or you are the most uninformed investor I've ever dealt with. Or maybe you're 14 years old? I don't know. I'm at a loss of words for how ignorant and oblivious you are to this whole situation. One more dumbass outburst from you and you're getting ignored.

To all other shareholders who understand common sense- You know what the deal is. December 31st they ship or we get our BTC back from HashFast and I issue refunds with that BTC. Only reply you guys will see from me in here from now on will only be news regarding shipping or a refund come December 31st.  

It's you're btw.

I now just hope they don't deliver!

[1714799184]

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[1714799184]

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[Chef Ramsay]

Dude waldo is not going to give u your money back bcus that would mean he would have do refund everyone else and he probably used your BTC to buy another rig Sad so best thing you can do is just live with it for now and see what happens with KnCminer Sad sry bro

I thought waldo already paid for this device ?

I Believe so but KnCminer is late and everyone is growing inpatient  

So this justifies you making up lies and accusations? You need to calm down. Theres hundreds of shareholders in the same position as you- but only you and 2 others seem to not understand logic. The situation is out of my hands unless they refund us or they ship. That's like the 17th time I've said that. 200 other people understand it, why can't the 3 of you?

Thanks for the reply waldo, I'm not trying to offend you and yes I do believe your using our btc to buy more miners (Unless you have 1000BTC in your wallet to buy them so often) but I don't really care how your doing it honest:!)(as long as I get what I payed for:) and I don't care if the miners are late and I know that its our of your hands. Your making a living out of us trusting you with our BTC and your doing a goooooood job at, Honest!) But don't think I wont speak my mind and tell it like it is (I don't care if you get offended). I am a very forward guy and defend people for a living so im not afraid to get my hand dirty. So again you should welcome any good or negative feed back from you BTC share holders.
God Bless YOU Waldo!)

Either you're the biggest troll or you are the most uninformed investor I've ever dealt with. Or maybe you're 14 years old? I don't know. I'm at a loss of words for how ignorant and oblivious you are to this whole situation. One more dumbass outburst from you and you're getting ignored.

To all other shareholders who understand common sense- You know what the deal is. December 31st they ship or we get our BTC back from HashFast and I issue refunds with that BTC. Only reply you guys will see from me in here from now on will only be news regarding shipping or a refund come December 31st.  

It's you're btw.

wow ~ ok, do what you think is best for you! but I have 7.5 BTC invested with you.

I have the same amount as you and am confident that we either get the miners running or we get the refund. Badgering someone when they're in the same position as we all are is relatively confusing to me. Hashfast, for whatever reason, just doesn't have the business sense that we're used to with other miner outfits that we've been lucky to do business with in this emerging industry. We all jumped into this GB because we were willing to trust this company (HF) that they'd uphold their end of the bargain in a timely manner. Timely is pretty much gone, so we get what's left. People check back to this thread for ETA info on our shit, not to see a few jump on the manager that is trying to do his best w/ his hands tied for the duration of the month per the terms.

[malvino]

Waldo, now I'm very serious about that.

Show me your arguments on the paper and looking at your own terms why you don't have to refund us… Don't say "Hashfast will refund us on 2014" because that's not specified in your terms. Read them and explain me why I'm wrong.

I didn't find any, and yes, your fault was not include the date of the refund, as you made in your new share sell (why did you change the terms?). But that's not our problem and we bought a share of a machine that would be shipped on november and if not we'll get a refund. Be honest and refund us, you know we are right.

Waldo, the one who's bored with your answers it's me. I ask you once again and all the people is defending you to tell me where in your terms is written that the refund will be on December 31st. If you show me that I'll shut up. If you write some terms you must fulfill them, that's the way contracts are made.

[malvino]

And? What is your answer?

Silence…

(or wait till December 31st, but this isn't an answer with valid arguments)

[flyswatta]

In case anyone cares...Hashfast had two updates today for their progress.  IMHO, it's marketing hype, but they state that they are starting volume production of mining systems now.

https://hashfast.com/second-tests/

https://hashfast.com/hashfast-announces-fastest-bitcoin-mining-chip-in-the-world/

[stex2009]

In case anyone cares...Hashfast had two updates today for their progress.  IMHO, it's marketing hype, but they state that they are starting volume production of mining systems now.

https://hashfast.com/second-tests/

https://hashfast.com/hashfast-announces-fastest-bitcoin-mining-chip-in-the-world/

They are the next Bfly labs.
Now we need to invest in their next big Thing
https://hashfast.com/hashfast-announces-fastest-bitcoin-mining-chip-in-the-world/

[yomamanodros]

HashFast has said that the units will have a 25% higher hashrate than originally stated.  Will this be reflected in our shares?

[#BiT_pOL]

HashFast has said that the units will have a 25% higher hashrate than originally stated.  Will this be reflected in our shares?

Yes, all hashing power (whatever it be) will still be equally distributed between all shareholders. 

  

[paulej]

Waldo, now I'm very serious about that.

Show me your arguments on the paper and looking at your own terms why you don't have to refund us… Don't say "Hashfast will refund us on 2014" because that's not specified in your terms. Read them and explain me why I'm wrong.

I didn't find any, and yes, your fault was not include the date of the refund, as you made in your new share sell (why did you change the terms?). But that's not our problem and we bought a share of a machine that would be shipped on november and if not we'll get a refund. Be honest and refund us, you know we are right.

Waldo, the one who's bored with your answers it's me. I ask you once again and all the people is defending you to tell me where in your terms is written that the refund will be on December 31st. If you show me that I'll shut up. If you write some terms you must fulfill them, that's the way contracts are made.

I almost hate bringing this part of the thread back to life again, but after reading so many comments asking for a refund and nitpicking over the wording of the offer, I just cannot help myself.

When waldohoover posted the offer, the terms were pretty clear.  He collects BTC from each person who wants to participate, he uses that BTC to purchase a miner, he then runs the miner for as long as there is a profit (or max 30 months), he then divides any BTC mined per share to each person.  He also said he takes no responsibility of HashFast does not deliver.  That statement is in no uncertain terms.  He has absolutely no control over HashFast.

There is a statement that refunds will be delivered in the event of a non-delivery.  However, "non-delivery" could be interpreted to mean "delivery by the date the manufacturer stated" or it can be interpreted to mean "it is never delivered".  In any case, while even I cannot state in certain terms what qualifies as non-delivery, logic would suggest that there was a shipment guarantee date.  HashFast definitely does that.  What folks have said was the guarantee date was December 31.  If it was sooner than that, then waldohoover would likely have already asked HashFast for a refund (after polling the shareholders).  He certainly has nothing personally to gain by sitting on his hands.  Logic would therefore suggest he cannot yet request a refund.

In any case, I think it's really poor form to pick over every word in the offer.  You're not dealing with a large corporation here with a team of lawyers who drew up a formal purchase contract.  It's a group of individuals informally going in together to have a go with a miner and, I think it's worth noting, purchasing only a "share" of a miner that might otherwise be too expensive for a person to buy and operate.

Frankly, I have to tip my hat to waldohoover for going through all the effort to set up a place to run the miners and do all the work.  He  had to put a certain amount of money on the table just to provide a place to make this possible.  That's money he is out of pocket.

So, please be respectful to the man and be patient.  He'll either have a miner working before long or you'll get a refund.

[yomamanodros]

When waldohoover posted the offer, the terms were pretty clear.  He collects BTC from each person who wants to participate, he uses that BTC to purchase a miner, he then runs the miner for as long as there is a profit (or max 30 months), he then divides any BTC mined per share to each person.  He also said he takes no responsibility of HashFast does not deliver.  That statement is in no uncertain terms.  He has absolutely no control over HashFast.

There is a statement that refunds will be delivered in the event of a non-delivery.  However, "non-delivery" could be interpreted to mean "delivery by the date the manufacturer stated" or it can be interpreted to mean "it is never delivered".  In any case, while even I cannot state in certain terms what qualifies as non-delivery, logic would suggest that there was a shipment guarantee date.  HashFast definitely does that.  What folks have said was the guarantee date was December 31.  If it was sooner than that, then waldohoover would likely have already asked HashFast for a refund (after polling the shareholders).  He certainly has nothing personally to gain by sitting on his hands.  Logic would therefore suggest he cannot yet request a refund.

In any case, I think it's really poor form to pick over every word in the offer.

The point we were making is that the terms were not actually clear at all.  He stated from the beginning that all miners were already paid for.  He wasn't collecting money to buy miners, he was collecting money to reimburse himself.  He called it a group buy, but the title of the thread stated that the miners were already paid for.

Also, there was no where in the terms that stated that Dec. 31 was the guaranteed delivery date, the only date mentioned was the end of November.  When I bought my shares I was under the impression that delivery was by the end of Nov. or refund or waiting was an option.  Had I known the actual guaranteed delivery date was the end of Dec, I would have taken my money elsewhere.  I passed on other GBs with much better terms for late Dec early Jan deliveries for one that I thought would refund me if it wasn't delivered by the end of Nov.

I was much more upset with waldohoovers lack of communication than I was with not getting a refund.  Once we started asking for clarification of the terms, waldo stopped responding with any details at all.  Personally I would have been fine with it if he had just said that he made a mistake by not including the manufacturer's guaranteed delivery date. 

I am willing to wait and I do appreciate what waldo is doing, but he is being compensated for his work and does have a responsibility to those of us who trusted him with our money.  He is getting 3% of every single miner that he runs a group buy for and that is a significant hashrate when you add that all up.  This is why it is important that we hold him to the terms that we all agreed to.  GB coordinators are being trusted with many thousands of dollars and should act like professionals when communicating with their customers.  This is a customer service job as well as a tech job.

I agree that this discussion has gone on too long and this is that last I am going to say about the issue.  Hopefully the miners are not delivered on time and we will get our btc refunds, but if we do get our delivery or the only refund option is US$, I have confidence that waldo will do a good job hosting our miners.

[LittleD]

When waldohoover posted the offer, the terms were pretty clear.  He collects BTC from each person who wants to participate, he uses that BTC to purchase a miner, he then runs the miner for as long as there is a profit (or max 30 months), he then divides any BTC mined per share to each person.  He also said he takes no responsibility of HashFast does not deliver.  That statement is in no uncertain terms.  He has absolutely no control over HashFast.

There is a statement that refunds will be delivered in the event of a non-delivery.  However, "non-delivery" could be interpreted to mean "delivery by the date the manufacturer stated" or it can be interpreted to mean "it is never delivered".  In any case, while even I cannot state in certain terms what qualifies as non-delivery, logic would suggest that there was a shipment guarantee date.  HashFast definitely does that.  What folks have said was the guarantee date was December 31.  If it was sooner than that, then waldohoover would likely have already asked HashFast for a refund (after polling the shareholders).  He certainly has nothing personally to gain by sitting on his hands.  Logic would therefore suggest he cannot yet request a refund.

In any case, I think it's really poor form to pick over every word in the offer.

The point we were making is that the terms were not actually clear at all.  He stated from the beginning that all miners were already paid for.  He wasn't collecting money to buy miners, he was collecting money to reimburse himself.  He called it a group buy, but the title of the thread stated that the miners were already paid for.

Also, there was no where in the terms that stated that Dec. 31 was the guaranteed delivery date, the only date mentioned was the end of November.  When I bought my shares I was under the impression that delivery was by the end of Nov. or refund or waiting was an option.  Had I known the actual guaranteed delivery date was the end of Dec, I would have taken my money elsewhere.  I passed on other GBs with much better terms for late Dec early Jan deliveries for one that I thought would refund me if it wasn't delivered by the end of Nov.

I was much more upset with waldohoovers lack of communication than I was with not getting a refund.  Once we started asking for clarification of the terms, waldo stopped responding with any details at all.  Personally I would have been fine with it if he had just said that he made a mistake by not including the manufacturer's guaranteed delivery date.  

I am willing to wait and I do appreciate what waldo is doing, but he is being compensated for his work and does have a responsibility to those of us who trusted him with our money.  He is getting 3% of every single miner that he runs a group buy for and that is a significant hashrate when you add that all up.  This is why it is important that we hold him to the terms that we all agreed to.  GB coordinators are being trusted with many thousands of dollars and should act like professionals when communicating with their customers.  This is a customer service job as well as a tech job.

I agree that this discussion has gone on too long and this is that last I am going to say about the issue.  Hopefully the miners are not delivered on time and we will get our btc refunds, but if we do get our delivery or the only refund option is US$, I have confidence that waldo will do a good job hosting our miners.

I totally agree with yomamanodros well said bro. i do hope waldo hears our voice and concerns before more and more people start complaining about his lack of communication and service and I will hate to start comparing his company to Butterfly Labs

[paulej]

The point we were making is that the terms were not actually clear at all.  He stated from the beginning that all miners were already paid for.  He wasn't collecting money to buy miners, he was collecting money to reimburse himself.  He called it a group buy, but the title of the thread stated that the miners were already paid for.

I think it depends on when you first saw the post. It was not purchased at the very beginning.  He collected orders until he got somewhere about 90% (I guess) of the slots filled.  Anyway, there was a number of slots and once he passed that threshold, he ordered.  He might have marked it as paid, because he did pay for it -- this is an important indicator to let you know the hardware order is in the queue!  And how did he pay for it? It might have been out of his own pocket, or it might have been using the BTC for shares received.  If I recall correctly, the cost per share * number of shares was more than the cost of the hardware.  In other words, I think there was a small profit per share, which he might have used to allow himself to order that hardware before filling all slots.  I don't know what he did with the extra BTC.  Maybe he put it in his pocket.  All I do know is that he didn't hide anything.  I could do the math and see there was a small premium over the actual cost of the hardware.

Also, there was no where in the terms that stated that Dec. 31 was the guaranteed delivery date, the only date mentioned was the end of November.  When I bought my shares I was under the impression that delivery was by the end of Nov. or refund or waiting was an option.  Had I known the actual guaranteed delivery date was the end of Dec, I would have taken my money elsewhere.  I passed on other GBs with much better terms for late Dec early Jan deliveries for one that I thought would refund me if it wasn't delivered by the end of Nov.

I never saw the December 31 date, either, until the expected date came and went.  But he never made any guarantees of delivery by the end of October or November.  Originally, I think the hardware was expected to be in at the end of October.  Whatever the case, the offer clearly said he cannot be responsible for the fact that the manufacturer does not deliver on time.  Had you purchased directly from HashFast, you'd be in the same boat you are now.  He's not misleading you here.

Nobody doing a group buy from a hardware manufacturer can guarantee delivery of the hardware.  Any group buy that says they will give you a full refund if the manufacturer does not deliver by some set date is not being entirely truthful.   Either that or they have very deep pockets and do not need your money.  If the latter, I doubt they would even offer a group buy.

Put yourself in his shoes.  Suppose you wanted to do a group buy like this.  Suppose you need to collect at least 90% of the funds from others before you have enough to order the hardware.  Then the manufacturer fails to deliver the hardware on time.  What would you be doing?  Will you pull out BTC out of your pocket and return it to everyone?  Remember, you didn't have enough money in your pocket to buy the hardware in the first place, so likely you could not.

I was much more upset with waldohoovers lack of communication than I was with not getting a refund.  Once we started asking for clarification of the terms, waldo stopped responding with any details at all.  Personally I would have been fine with it if he had just said that he made a mistake by not including the manufacturer's guaranteed delivery date.  

Well, I honestly don't know what you want him to tell you.  He's one man setting up some miners and working with a bunch of yahoos from all over the world to make it happen.  He wrote the terms and conditions up front.  I understood them.  Most people understood them.  What is there to clarify that you honestly do not already know the answer to?

I am willing to wait and I do appreciate what waldo is doing, but he is being compensated for his work and does have a responsibility to those of us who trusted him with our money.  He is getting 3% of every single miner that he runs a group buy for and that is a significant hashrate when you add that all up.  This is why it is important that we hold him to the terms that we all agreed to.  GB coordinators are being trusted with many thousands of dollars and should act like professionals when communicating with their customers.  This is a customer service job as well as a tech job.

Well, he's not being compensated if the miners do not show up.  Well, except for that 3% charge that he'll take to issue a refund back to you.

Your point is valid that he should answer questions, but it's the types of questions and, dare I say, inflammatory complaining that is not something he should have to listen to.  He answered every question.  The problem is people did not like the answer.  The only guess I can see as to why people are complaining is nothing to do with his terms, but the fact they are angry that the manufacturer is late on the product.  So late, in fact, that it's likely not going to prove to be a significant ROI.

However, you cannot blame the man at the helm.  He did his job: he collected money, he purchased the miner, and he's waiting ... fully ready to go the day that box arrives.

I agree that this discussion has gone on too long and this is that last I am going to say about the issue.  Hopefully the miners are not delivered on time and we will get our btc refunds, but if we do get our delivery or the only refund option is US$, I have confidence that waldo will do a good job hosting our miners.

So, you do understand he's doing the best he can.  I don't even know if the refund policy would be for the BTC you paid or the US$ equivalent of the BTC you paid.  I suspect this depends on the purchase terms with HashFast.  Arguably, they should return BTC, but they might be in a similar boat: they used that BTC to buy the hardware and don't have BTC to return.  But, they can re-sell the hardware to somebody else and then give a refund on it.  That suggests a US$ equivalent.

[+Tatogo+]

11 days for the miners

12 days for refund

I bet we will receive the miners  31th at 23:59 and Happy New Year, dong dong dong...

[sakuleo]

i preffer the miner whit MPP

[malvino]

I never saw the December 31 date, either, until the expected date came and went.  But he never made any guarantees of delivery by the end of October or November.  Originally, I think the hardware was expected to be in at the end of October.  Whatever the case, the offer clearly said he cannot be responsible for the fact that the manufacturer does not deliver on time.  Had you purchased directly from HashFast, you'd be in the same boat you are now.  He's not misleading you here.

Explain me please what is "on time". When you put in the terms "ships in November" what does it mean? December, 2014, 2015?

Your point is valid that he should answer questions, but it's the types of questions and, dare I say, inflammatory complaining that is not something he should have to listen to.  He answered every question.  The problem is people did not like the answer.  The only guess I can see as to why people are complaining is nothing to do with his terms, but the fact they are angry that the manufacturer is late on the product.  So late, in fact, that it's likely not going to prove to be a significant ROI.

This is not a game. We're not some friends that put money together to buy beers. This is a business, Waldo is earning money with that and also we want. And when you make a share buy you know there are some risks. And the most important thing is that there are terms that must be fulfilled. I read the terms and if I agree I put money there. If you read them carefully you'll see were are right. Maybe it was Waldo mistake not make them clear, but that's not our fault. I asked him several times to give me an argument that shows I'm wrong, with no answer… (oh, yes, there was an answer: wait till December 31st)

[paulej]

Explain me please what is "on time". When you put in the terms "ships in November" what does it mean? December, 2014, 2015?

I believe everyone understood that waldohoover was purchasing a HashFast miner. Everyone also understood that waldohoover was not the manufacturer. What he echoed in the posting was the manufacturer's claimed shipping date; there should be no misunderstanding on that. If you want to know the time after which the shipment is considered late and subject to a refund, then one had to consult HashFast or just ask waldohoover.  Did you ask about this when you purchased shares?  I'd guess you didn't.  Given what BFL did to so many people, I would think you might want to ask about that.  In any case, the date after which the miner was considered "refundable" was apparently December 31 and that was likely published on HashFast's web site.
[/quote]

This is not a game. We're not some friends that put money together to buy beers. This is a business, Waldo is earning money with that and also we want. And when you make a share buy you know there are some risks. And the most important thing is that there are terms that must be fulfilled. I read the terms and if I agree I put money there. If you read them carefully you'll see were are right. Maybe it was Waldo mistake not make them clear, but that's not our fault. I asked him several times to give me an argument that shows I'm wrong, with no answer… (oh, yes, there was an answer: wait till December 31st)

I agree it's not a game, but I think you're barking at the wrong person. You should be upset with HastFast, not waldohoover. He clearly stated he cannot be responsible for the failure of the manufacturer to deliver. And, indeed, they did fail to deliver.  So if you put in 10 BTC or so, you lost a lot of potential revenue.  Had you held that 10 BTC, it might be work US$7200K today.  Had HashFast delivered as they advertised, you might have been able to earn 10 BTC (or more) through mining.

The problem is quite simply that HashFast failed to deliver, and rather spectacularly so. Had you put your money into BTC, stocks, or a different miner that did deliver on time, you likely would have made money.  I can fully appreciate you being upset with the fact that you lost the profit potential, but this is not waldohoover's fault.

[paulej]

malvino,

Considering the news from HashFast of late, it looks like you might just get more angry. It would appear from this page that Simon Barber did say HasFast would refund BTC and that the BTC was guaranteed. There's a more colorful dialog here.

But the letter that went out to all customers requires them to give up all rights if they want a refund and the refund will only be the USD equivalent of what you paid.

Nobody is happy about this situation, but don't take it out on our leader here. He can't control the company, but it does look bad.

Personally, I'd say request a refund and say no to the release. Nothing in the original purchase agreement said customers had to sign the release.  It's better to leave options open.

That said, I'm not sure what folks want. Refund or wait?

[+Tatogo+]

the refund will only be the USD equivalent of what you paid.

Really? hahaha

I paid something in BTC and the refund will be in USD

This whole story is a joke. It´s like "hey guys! we steal you but... smile!"

[malvino]

Paulej,

The thing is that I made business with Waldo, not with HashFast.

I'm graphic designer. Imagine you want a logo. And I make an offer: logos for $100. I'll design them with a MacBook Pro I've already paid and will arrive in November. You pay me $100. Apple is late and till now didn't send it. You ask me for a refund and I say it's not my fault. It's Apple. As you say you must be angry with Apple, and only Apple is responsible for the situation. Really?

And in that time you see me buying a HP and making the same offer: logos for $100 made with an HP I've already paid. You don't have money to make a refund but you have it to buy another computer… Nice!

[paulej]

The thing is that I made business with Waldo, not with HashFast.

I'm struggling with this claim. The thing is, he did not sell the miners. Rather he sold shares of the miners. He also made it clear that he is not responsible of Hash Fast does not deliver.

The important point here is that he was just offering to run the equipment for you and others. It was you who took the risk on Hash Fast delivering.

Your Mac logo example isn't right. Sure, if you have no computer, you can't make logos. However, if you bought a different computer you could make the logos.  With the equipment used for hashing, he is not buying the boxes and leaving you to dry. Rather, he is collecting money from people and using that money to buy the miners. Sometimes, he puts a little of his own money in to buy miners, too, which is why I think he marks them paid.  He indicated somewhere that when he gets to about 90% funded, he buys the miners.

You really shouldn't complain to waldohoover. I'm sure he is as unhappy with Hash Fast as you are. He cannot control what the company does.