all finished

[malvino]

There is something important: What "All Miners PAID" in the title of the post means for each other…

malvino: All Miners PAID = Waldo paid for the miner with his own money and then is selling shares.

paulej: All Miners PAID = He is collecting money from people and using that money to buy the miners. Sometimes, he puts a little of his own money in to buy miners, too, which is why I think he marks them paid.  He indicated somewhere that when he gets to about 90% funded, he buys the miners.

Who's right?

[paulej]

There is something important: What "All Miners PAID" in the title of the post means for each other…

malvino: All Miners PAID = Waldo paid for the miner with his own money and then is selling shares.

paulej: All Miners PAID = He is collecting money from people and using that money to buy the miners. Sometimes, he puts a little of his own money in to buy miners, too, which is why I think he marks them paid.  He indicated somewhere that when he gets to about 90% funded, he buys the miners.

Who's right?

I know for sure that I saw a note once where he said he would go ahead and order the miners once a certain percentage of shares are paid.  It might be some of his own money used or it might be that 90% of the shares covered 100% of the actual cost.

However, whether the miner was paid for by him or those who bought shares makes no difference.  Either way, you purchased a share of a miner that was to be delivered at a future date.  He clearly said in the offer that he cannot be responsible for the manufacturer failing to deliver.  You knew there was a risk that they would not deliver.  This happened with BFL and Hash Fast had no products on the market.

What Hash Fast said was that they would refund the money if they failed to deliver.  Right now, they're saying they will only return the USD equivalent of the cost, whereas they apparently said they would return one's BTC.  I posted a link above to one of the founders saying he guaranteed buyers' BTC.  So, Hash Fast lied.  Waldohoover made no false claim, nor did he make any misleading statements.  You would not be complaining if the machine had been delivered on time.  It was not and there's nothing waldohoover can do about it.  If there is any one part of the offer that should stand out in your mind, it's that statement where he said he cannot be responsible for the fact a miner was not delivered.

In any case, it looks like you will at least be able to get a refund for the USD equivalent of what you spent, if the others in the group want to get a refund.  I don't know what the group wants to do, but waldohoover has just a few days to submit a request for a refund.  He might even opt for filing a lawsuit against Hash Fast, since they did apparently guarantee buyers' BTC.  However, this is really up to him (as the recognized purchaser) and, to a lesser extent, those who contributed to the pool.

Anyway, I fully appreciate your frustration.  Not all investments work out the way you plan and you should know that.  There's nothing misleading in what waldohoover offered.  Just sit back and enjoy the ride.  I'd guess everyone would love their BTC back, but Hash Fast likely does not have the funds to return it.  Another option they do have, though, is to provide even more hashing power.  I doubt they'll do that, either.  Likely, they're going to go broke over this fiasco.

[itod]

Who's right?

You bought a share of a product HashFast was selling. Everything else is payment details, the fact Waldo payed in advance was just a safenet and convenience for shareholders to be certain their money won't just stay at Waldo's wallet for a while and then returned back. That payment in advance was a main reason I joined Waldo's group buy and not some other. This is a group buy, we bought HashFast product together, paying through Waldo. Please stop whining and read opening post once again, everything was and is clear about this.

[Chef Ramsay]

So, in this current state of uncertainty, are we leaning towards going the usd refund route? Even though it's a major haircut, anything we get back now will be a bonus and I really don't think that waiting a month or two for upgraded products will pan out. Instead of bickering about the past which can't be changed, I'd like to see some brain storming about what our particular outcome is going to look like. And yes, I've covered the main HF thread but am interested in what way we'll roll.

[paulej]

So, in this current state of uncertainty, are we leaning towards going the usd refund route? Even though it's a major haircut, anything we get back now will be a bonus and I really don't think that waiting a month or two for upgraded products will pan out. Instead of bickering about the past which can't be changed, I'd like to see some brain storming about what our particular outcome is going to look like. And yes, I've covered the main HF thread but am interested in what way we'll roll.

If a USD refund is sought, I would also suggest that waldo not sign the document HF is trying to force on customers that releases HF of any obligations. I believe there is and should be further dialog on a full BTC refund, given that the founders of the company did make those guarantees.

That said, I can be persuaded either way.  If HF really can deliver more hashing power to make up for lost time, that would be cool.  I have strong doubts now, but I do think the company had good intentions.

[yomamanodros]

So, are you really still trying to sell shares in this? I noticed the thread title has changed to BTC.5 = 20GH/s.  Aren't you attempting to get a refund?  Why would you still be attempting to sell shares in a miner you are actively trying to get a refund on?

When the current refund being offered is only a very small percentage of what we originally paid, this seems a bit shady.  If someone bought a share today and then we got our refund in 2 weeks, would you refund their entire BTC amount or the discounted amount that everyone else would receive? 

This GB should be closed if you are seeking a refund.

Please give us an update on what you are doing.

[stex2009]

No news from HF yet?

[yomamanodros]

These shares are for a Sierra- far from a Batch 1 order we're working on getting a refund on.

It's still crickets as far as a response from HF- it is the weekend though. Hopefully something comes back on Monday.

My mistake, let's hope for some good news soon.

[pumawolf]

did we file for full refunds (btc 4 btc) in this group by yet.

[minerpumpkin]

What about this lawyer? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=262052.msg4377215#msg4377215

[sakuleo]

take te equips and wait for the MPP. becouse a lwyer its too expensive and the equip mine 50% faster than they predicts... its not the best but may be is te best retourn on our investment. (srry for my crepp inglish)

[g83]

So I received an email from HashFast in the middle of the night regarding refunds.

They are fully ignoring all calls and emails from me.

The email basically stated that if we watch a refund for Batch 1 it will only be in USD and it needs to be decided by tomorrow (really?). I really hate everything about this company so I'm with whatever you guys decide. The lawyer aboves fees are 40% BTW.

At this point I'm not too sure what move to make.

Tell them that we are expecting them to pay back the full amount in BTC or we take legal action. And they need to decide till tomorrow - those fu*** fa*****

[stex2009]

take te equips and wait for the MPP. becouse a lwyer its too expensive and the equip mine 50% faster than they predicts... its not the best but may be is te best retourn on our investment. (srry for my crepp inglish)

Are they actually shipping?

[g83]

take te equips and wait for the MPP. becouse a lwyer its too expensive and the equip mine 50% faster than they predicts... its not the best but may be is te best retourn on our investment. (srry for my crepp inglish)

Are they actually shipping?

They are doing shit. Promising delivery... fail... not paying back and then setting us under pressure to take dollars

[itod]

At this point I'm not too sure what move to make.

Waldo, I know this is additional work for you but please step-up in these critical times. I know that you are not directly interested what will happen next, but for many of us this is very important. Thanks for understanding this.

The only proper thing to do for you is to organize official voting what should we do, and to PM all group buyers in your HF group buys to take part in the voting. This is important because people who do not follow forum closely will get email notification to take part in the vote. For those who will not vote we have to assume they agree with the majority, we can't wait forever for them to make up their minds.

There's also another lawyer which can be a valid option:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=262052.msg4377215#msg4377215
He is not that expensive as the first one you've mentioned, he takes 40% of the money above the official refund sum of 5,600 US$, but he is less experienced than the first one. I can help you sorting proper lawyer information for the voting if you want me, just please PM. There should be 3 options for the vote:
a) Take lawyer A (all info about the lawyer A)
b) Take lawyer B (all info about the lawyer B)
c) Do nothing and wait what will happen next
There is a possibility to add option
d) Accept HF refund request and wait for 5600 US$ per machine
but I personally think nobody sane would vote for this, let the others say if we should put this option in the vote at all.

Please organize the voting as soon as possible, if we are late and HF goes down in the meantime we could be left with no compensation at all!

[minerpumpkin]

Better call Saul!

[pumawolf]

im down to vote to join the law suit, even at 40 percent cost,  do some damage to these motherfukers. more importantly if it wins,it can change the way these company do bussiness and help the mining community for the greater good.

[Chef Ramsay]

My first move would be to wait for the advanced miners but since they can't be trusted to ship ever and since they're acting in such an unfriendly manner while displaying poor business acumen w/ shitty customer service, I'm all for nailing their asses to the wall and coughing up the 40%. At first this was all business but now it's personal. Offering someone a throwback usd value for something that is now effectively worth 5-7 times more is downright insulting. Holler if ya hear me!

[3rac3]

My first move would be to wait for the advanced miners but since they can't be trusted to ship ever and since they're acting in such an unfriendly manner while displaying poor business acumen w/ shitty customer service, I'm all for nailing their asses to the wall and coughing up the 40%. At first this was all business but now it's personal. Offering someone a throwback usd value for something that is now effectively worth 5-7 times more is downright insulting. Holler if ya hear me!

Argggh ;-)

I can see three choices:

• #1 do nothing and hope for HF to deliver (chicken option)
• #2 ask for usd refund (lame option)
• #3 go with the suit (kick ass! option)

I doubt that waldo will get the reply from all the shareholders but if we were to vote I vote #3.

[minerpumpkin]

I doubt that waldo will get the reply from all the shareholders but if we were to vote I vote #3.

Yeah, seems like a good idea. We could do a 3 day voting window. And then, based on participating users / or number of their shares, how we should proceed. Those who don't vote miss the fun.