KNCMiner REfusing refunds

[The Avenger]

You do know that they've built a datacentre? Purchased 100's of 850w PSU's. This is not the behaviour of a company planning a hit and run.

No, to be honest, I know very little about what they are doing. I only took an interest recently because it has a significant impending effect on the bitcoin economy, and I like to know what's what. Is there a source for this data center info?

Photos upon photos upon photos  
http://forum.kncminer.com/forum/kncminer-hosting/kncminer-pool/2934-more-real-p-pictures-of-the-data-centre

I suppose it could be argued, but I really have no idea if it applies from a legal standpoint. If this email was only sent to one person, or a select few, I think that would be at their discretion. I mean, everyone agreed to their terms and conditions, and it seems highly unlikely that a company would undermine their own terms, which probably required careful planning and legal council to make sure they were properly protected.

I totally agree. That's why they'd have to accept that if there customer service team were sending this message to people, that IS their terms.

Anyway, this is all speculation and hopefully unnecessary. I hope somewhere in Sweden machines are pumping out the goods as we speak.

P.S. iCEBREAKER, your ignore button is incredibly yellow, so I'm not even going to look at that chart.

[1715050909]

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[1715050909]

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[iCEBREAKER]

This is why they're refusing refunds:

KnC's EZ-Copy pseudo-ASIC isn't going to be competitive against Bitfury, much less HashFast.

Don't take my word for it, look at decentralizedhashing.com's quasi-official chart:



HashFast's Sierra and Baby-Jet are kicking their sorry Swedish ass all over the chart.

They have the top two positions, and positive ROI in all scenarios.

KnC's poor customers are relying on nothing but good luck, a hope and a prayer that difficulty will taper.  That's why KnC is way down on the list, at #14.  

[DyslexicZombei]

(Post deleted)

Sorry, removed seller's name that's buying KnC orders. He's all done buying KnC pre-orders.

[goosoodude]

I'd like to make a few points here.

1. KnC just issued a news post saying they have started FULL production, and the miners should be here within the coming days. They say they're on schedule, and...

2. This won't be a repeat of what we had with the company who... Shall not be named. KnC has shown a huge amount of things, such as the chips, the PCB production, and what we'll surely be seeing soon, a working Jupiter/Saturn. They have shown multiple steps of production, and they're saying...

3. They're on schedule. This isn't like BFL. It's not like ", We're shipping in September... No, October... Actually, November... ect." They have a tight schedule, and as long as they get day 1 shipped by the 1st, I'll be happy. Even if day 1 gets shipped within the first week of October, I'll be fine. If they stick to their promises, they'll be able to manufacture, and maybe ship HUNDREDS in a day. So, I expect by tomorrow, or even Saturday, these things WILL be shipping.

But, I've never even been to the office, so, I guess we'll be relying on KnC and even Bitcoinorama, since he'll be over there. We'll see where it goes from here, but I'm trusting in KnC...

[Kaliecious]

the tax man making me want to commit harry-karry myself. I didn't know they could take the part of a estate that's already had the taxes payed on. :-/ I thought it was all earnings for the ear that wasn't taxed. It sounds like double taxation which I don't see how is legal but I've never had to deal with a parent death either.

[frankenmint]

oh icy  - hero members can also be bright yellow trolls too

[bbxx]

This is why they're refusing refunds:

why are you posting this misleading crap ?

hashfast will deliver sierras and jets for this price in january
and promotion is over

[Mota]

the tax man making me want to commit harry-karry myself. I didn't know they could take the part of a estate that's already had the taxes payed on. :-/ I thought it was all earnings for the ear that wasn't taxed. It sounds like double taxation which I don't see how is legal but I've never had to deal with a parent death either.

It's called inheritance tax in Germany. It is there so that the state can get your moniez when you die instead of all going to your heirs.
Also - most people get a bank credit only for the amount they have to pay the state. OR a mortage on the house you are to inherit. Sorry for your loss btw. And a really shitty timing too - but alas, you can't blame KNC for not giving you a refund after they went into full production. I know, you said you send them a refund notice before they posted that, but I imagine they started to deilver the stuff to the factory this morning and only took a little longer to post it. They gave refunds until yesterday. I know that, since until yesterday my little page refresher cried out loud every time an october unit was on sale again (sadly, I got none of those, must be someone grabbing them with scripts...)

[Ytterbium]

but Bitcoinorama assured us all thousands of times that we could get refunds right up until the time of shipment or delivery (can't remember which but it doesn't matter)?

If you paid with a credit card, then you can still do a chargeback, In fact, you may be able to get a charge back even if it's just late.  If you bought a HashFast then you're completely SOL if they miss their goals.

As far as requesting a refund at this point, it seems obvious the reason you can't is because orders are about to be assembled and shipped, and if an order were canceled now it might still go out.

I'm not exactly sure why people are surprised about this.

[Mota]

I'm not exactly sure why people are surprised about this.

+1

[User705]

All ASIC manufacturers with preorders will end up the same way.  Market price will outpace their batch pricing and then all shit breaks loose.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=301603.0

[Kaliecious]

the tax man making me want to commit harry-karry myself. I didn't know they could take the part of a estate that's already had the taxes payed on. :-/ I thought it was all earnings for the ear that wasn't taxed. It sounds like double taxation which I don't see how is legal but I've never had to deal with a parent death either.

It's called inheritance tax in Germany. It is there so that the state can get your moniez when you die instead of all going to your heirs.
Also - most people get a bank credit only for the amount they have to pay the state. OR a mortage on the house you are to inherit. Sorry for your loss btw. And a really shitty timing too - but alas, you can't blame KNC for not giving you a refund after they went into full production. I know, you said you send them a refund notice before they posted that, but I imagine they started to deilver the stuff to the factory this morning and only took a little longer to post it. They gave refunds until yesterday. I know that, since until yesterday my little page refresher cried out loud every time an october unit was on sale again (sadly, I got none of those, must be someone grabbing them with scripts...)

not sure what you mean by October unit. :/ I purchased june 10th. order 1888. I just purchased sat back and wait, hell I rarely get on here often. look how many posts I've had for 2-3 years of being around this place. I didn't even know they had a forum up until I went and read about this update they posted. I waited a year and 15-20 days to get my bfl order and ever asked for a refund from them and they was supposed to be the scammers, now im asking a legit company because I need it and feel like im getting scammed. but their rules is their rules, by their laws I don't have to accept if I understood the 14 day rule then I should be able to get a refund if I understood it correctly, but the shipping can be deducted.

[ninjaboon]

11.1 KnCMiner is exempted from fulfilling its obligations under this Agreement and is entitled to cancel the Purchaser’s confirmed orders without any liability, in the event of force majeure such as strikes, floods and fires, wars, riots, interruptions in transport, shortage of material or energy sources affecting KnCMiner or its sub-suppliers, accidents or other occurrences which affects sub-suppliers’ production, bankruptcy or compulsory liquidation of a sub-supplier, accidents of any kind, governmental decisions which affects manufacturing or use of the Products and, in general, such events that were unforeseen at the time of the order which prevents or hinder manufacturing, transportation or delivery of the Products to the Purchaser.

free market here. so buyer beware rule applies.

[Kaliecious]

how do I contact the sam guy or can someone pm me a email for him.

[Kaliecious]

If you purchase something by mail order, over the phone, from TV-shop, on the internet or via door-to-door sales you have the right to cancel your purchase within 14 days, this applies within Sweden. 

 

When you purchase from a store on the other hand, you have no right according to the law to cancel your purchase.This is regulated by the Door-to-Door Sales Act which includes the requirement that the seller must provide clear information about how you can cancel your purchase.

Distance contracts

When you purchase goods at a distance on the Internet, the period you have to cancel your purchase starts on the day you receive your purchase or a considerable part of it. If you purchase something from another EU country, for example on the Internet, you also have the right to cancel your purchase (a cooling-off period), but the amount of time you have to cancel might be shorter than 14 days. You will find more information about shopping across borders at Konsument Europas’ web site (information in Swedish and English).

The right to cancel a purchase also applies if you have reached a distance agreement to receive a service. It may for example be trade services, but the law also applies to agreements for certain financial services such as loans, insurances and payment services. The cooling-off period of 14 days also applies to services, except for life insurances and individual private pension savings. Then the right to cancel is 30 days. As a rule, the cooling-off period starts on the day the agreement is reached. When you buy life insurance, the cooling-off period starts on the day you are notified that the agreement has been concluded.

The cancellation period however never starts until you have received all the information the seller must provide you with. When you purchase financial services, the cooling-off period does not start until you receive the terms of the contract.

Door-to-door sales

The rules regarding door-to-door sales apply if you purchase, hire or offer a price for a product or enter into an agreement for a service with a company in your own home. The rules also apply when the seller organises a trip to a place outside his permanent place of sale. In addition, the rules apply for Home Parties and for agreements that you for example enter into at your place of work, on a train journey or any other place where it may be difficult for you to get away from a sales person.  Even with door-to-door sales you have a 14 day cancellation period. If you enter into an agreement for life insurance, you have more time to cancel it, 30 days.

Information document

When you enter into a home sales agreement, the seller must provide you with a document which informs you about your cancellation rights and provides you with the name and address of the person to contact if you want to exercise your right to cancel. You sign one copy of the document to confirm that you have received it. Along with the information document you also receive a cancellation form that you can use if you want to cancel.

The cancellation period is the same for home sales as for distance agreements. The cancellation period does not start until you have received the information and the cancellation form.

If you have received a good or materials at a home visit, you must keep the good or materials available in order for the seller to be able to pick it up at your home. If you received the good or the material at a later date, it is your duty to return the good to the seller. You then have the right to receive compensation for reasonable return expenses.

Return freight

If you choose to cancel the purchase in the event of a distance agreement, you have to pay for the return freight yourself. As regards home and telephone sales, the seller has to pay for the return freight.

Exceptions

In certain instances the rules regarding homes sales do not apply. For example if the total price of your purchase is less than SEK 300 or if the agreement is entered at a home visit arranged on your own initiative and express request.
     


Does this mean I should be able to get my refund when I ask for one?

[cypherdoc]

Both KNC and Bitcoinorama stated that refunds were available anytime before shipment.

[markm]

They seem to have bundled the assembly into the shipping now eh?

They have shipped to the factory which will put them on the shipping trucks, with a small matter of assembling them taking place there to fit them as whole units into the trucks or planes or whatever?

Something like "here are the parts, here are the destination addresses, please assemble and ship" ?

-MarkM-

[Kaliecious]

or come up with a line of bullshit to stop refunds from happening because he just done a 30k refund. :-/

[Kuroth]

Funny  This is EXACTLY the same crap BFL tried to pull....  Scum Bags...  All of them

[bbxx]

Funny  This is EXACTLY the same crap BFL tried to pull....  Scum Bags...  All of them

Greed!!!!

for them doesnt matter if one more or less unit will be shipped
they are the same units.

they are disgusting liars, such a shame.

problem is, jupiter production cost is about 500$, first early adopters are paying ridiculous margin for NRE for the next months, years.

those early adopters are all fucked by knc due to late shipping, no working prototype at the last days of september.

that means they will get maybe 50% back what they have paid in BTC, or less.