Ripple Q & A @ Joel Katz and Ripple inc.

[smoothie]

Which is it Joel are you working busily to comply with regulations or are you gonna let people do as they please?

There's really almost no conflict. Satoshi didn't violate any regulations when he made Bitcoin, so far as I know. Yet he built a system that lets people do as they please.

Satoshi also didn't create a centralized company to issue Bitcoin's adoption.

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[smoothie]

I guess if I minted a piece of goldwith a promise on it you could open you mind a little. Think about what I am saying. That money is debt and the problem with the monetary system is not that it debt based but a ponzi scheme

You made a statement I debunked it. Moving on...with my "ridiculous" reasoning and logic.

Sure you did. Try reading debunking economics by steve keen, followed by the new depression by richard duncan. Then you might actually understand the real problem with the global economy and not make statements like the problem with the current monetary system is it is debt based all monetary systems are debt based money is debt or credit or an iou or a promise how ever you want to look at it    

If you missed it I already said I agree with you on the part where our current IOU system is broken. You claimed Gold is a form of IOU where gold makes a promise.

If you still can't see what I was getting at, there isn't much more I can say to get through to you. Moving on...

Right we agree that the current system is broken, but for different reasons you say it is broken because it is debt based i say that all money is debt based even gold. That ALL money is a promise or an IOU

"Innes goes on to note that a major problem in getting the public to understand the extent to which monetary systems are debt based is the challenge in persuading them that "things are not the way they seem"

Graeber echoes earlier theorists such as Innes by saying that during these eras population perception was that money derived its value from the precious metals of which the coins were made,[6] but that even in these periods money is more accurately understood as debt.

"When you make a promise to someone, it is equivalent to you taking a debt"
Moving on..

You still have failed to show how gold (itself), not the human perception, actually makes any promise.

What goes on in the human mind in terms of perception of money then yes your statement is true. No object by itself unless specified by the creator can act as a promise.

Gold sitting in the ground still not mine out of the ground does not promise anything, same goes for lumps of gold elsewhere. It is man that gives it that perception of value and being "able" to buy something thus your concept of debt is correct when bringing the human aspect of the "promise"...which is more of like an assumption of what it can buy you, because we all don't know the future.

[🏰 TradeFortress 🏰]

Which is it Joel are you working busily to comply with regulations or are you gonna let people do as they please?

There's really almost no conflict. Satoshi didn't violate any regulations when he made Bitcoin, so far as I know. Yet he built a system that lets people do as they please.

Satoshi also didn't create a centralized company to issue Bitcoin's adoption.

Nor premine even a single BTC. Like I said earlier, the genesis block was made intentionally unspendable.

[sublime5447]

Which is it Joel are you working busily to comply with regulations or are you gonna let people do as they please?

There's really almost no conflict. Satoshi didn't violate any regulations when he made Bitcoin, so far as I know. Yet he built a system that lets people do as they please.

What about money transmitting laws? If I use your system am I gonna have to register as a money transmitter?

What about my other question am I gonna be able to list any asset in the future like bushels of corn? If so are you guys gonna 1099 me? Are you gonna do what paypal did to ebay sales?

[OnkelPaul]

I think a little hard would be a severe understatement. >99% of your users use ripple.com/client, which does not allow choosing validator nodes.

The client allows you to set the server to which it connects. If that server has a different UNL or even is part of a copycat ripple network, the client will work with that. Couldn't get much easier.

Onkel Paul

[johnyj]

When money is presented in the form of IOU, there is always a risk of default. IOU money's value is always a percentage of the face value depends on the risk of the default. It does not have the same credibility as honest money like gold or bitcoin (no promise of future, works already paid)

[🏰 TradeFortress 🏰]

When money is presented in the form of IOU, there is always a risk of default. IOU money's value is always a percentage of the face value depends on the risk of the default. It does not have the same credibility as honest money like gold or bitcoin (no promise of future, works already paid)

The default Ripple client treats all IOUs for the same currency 1:1.

[sublime5447]

When money is presented in the form of IOU, there is always a risk of default. IOU money's value is always a percentage of the face value depends on the risk of the default. It does not have the same credibility as honest money like gold or bitcoin (no promise of future, works already paid)

Currency= fiat / bitcon

Money= gold and silver/ commodity based


The main difference between money and currency is that money is a store of value over time when 100 years passes and bitcoin is still valuable then you can start calling it money, but it wont it is just a currency!

Stop comparing bitcoin to gold! Bitcoin is not real! and there is nothing honest about bitcon right now.

Joel do you see what I mean? It is like beating you head against the wall to get people to understand the credit theory of money.

You cant present money as an IOU it is an IOU. I can present an elephant as a cat but it doesnt change reality.

What you are talking about when you are saying money presented as a IOU is called a loan! A loan is an IOU on a IOU


Please watch these videos

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iquemUNNYY8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqvKjsIxT_8             Watch this one first.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tj2s6vzErqY

[sublime5447]

I notice in the live feed that people are offering ILS what is that?

Also when I go the the live feed there is no back button, how to I get back to the main page?

Very cool graphic in the live feed though I dont really get what I am looking at?


I need a tutorial?  You said I could offer PP. Can I make Paypal my issuer. I have tired messing around on the site a few times and every time I leave pissed off.

How the fuck do you use it?

[ahbritto]

I notice in the live feed that people are offering ILS what is that?

ILS = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_new_shekel

[sublime5447]

I need a tutorial?  You said I could offer PP. Can I make Paypal my issuer. I have tired messing around on the site a few times and every time I leave pissed off.

How the fuck do you use it?


Where is the order book?

Can I link alias to my ripple account?


Is there a way to find my contacts?

When I hit the link to be added to the mailing list it redirects to the home page? what up with dat?

Can I only pick 2 currencies to trade?

What if I want to offer BTC for PP or USD or MP?

IS bitstamp the only issuer at this time?

Where is a list of contacts that are issuers?

[sublime5447]

What about other assets like derivatives contracts? Am I going to be able to buy and sell futures contracts?  

Simple Gateway Guide
This walks you through a simple ripple Gateway setup.
A Gateway must do two things
accept some form of deposit from a user and give the user Gateway IOUs. (Other -> ripple)
accept Gateway IOUs from a user and send that user payment. (ripple -> Other)
Getting started:
Set up and run rippled
Create a ripple account that will issue and redeem your IOUs. This is your Gateway Account.
Create a page to handle Other -> ripple
Create a page to handle ripple -> Other
Process for Other -> ripple
Collect from User their ripple Account where they want the IOU sent.
Once you get the money in from the Other source you simply make one RPC call to the ripple server to send the IOU to the user's account.
send an RPC submit: RPC API#submit
using something like this as the JSON: API Example Transactions#Basic IOU Send
User now has the Gateway IOU and can send it around to other people that accept your IOUs
Process for ripple -> Other
Collect from User the account they are sending from and the amount they are sending and whatever information you need to send them the Other payment. (Paypal address, dowlla ID, etc)
Tell user your Gateway Account address
Wait to see a transaction from the User's Account for the specified amount
You can either open a websocket to your rippled and handle the transaction events on your Gateway Account or
Periodically ask your rippled server for the recent transactions on your Gateway account and handle any payments
Once you receive the IOU back from the User you send the Other Payment.

I dont even know where to start only a computer programmer could think this is a simple guide, man you guys need help

What the fuck is a gateway?
Create a page to handle Other? huh what?
Process for Other -> ripple ? seriously
Once you get the money in from the Other source you simply make one RPC? simply this is not simple!!! no explanation of what a RNC is when you get the money in from where how?
send an RPC submit: RPC API#submit? no explanation what a API is
websocket?

Joel I have spent probably 10 hours dicking around on this site between today and other attempts in the past. I still have no fucking clue how to use your site.

I dont know if you guys are trying to do to much or what?

Look I am lucky if I can get a computer to turn on seriously my dad is a computer engineer who has owned his own software company for 20 years so I do have a little bit of experience. When you made this site did you only expect computer programmers to use it?  

Stop talk to robots and realize that human beings are going to be who users this.

Should I just give up and come back in a year? I am all about building the fuck out of a trust network can I use you site to do that or not?

[SeNiels]

What about other assets like derivatives contracts? Am I going to be able to buy and sell futures contracts?  

Simple Gateway Guide
This walks you through a simple ripple Gateway setup.
A Gateway must do two things
accept some form of deposit from a user and give the user Gateway IOUs. (Other -> ripple)
accept Gateway IOUs from a user and send that user payment. (ripple -> Other)
Getting started:
Set up and run rippled
Create a ripple account that will issue and redeem your IOUs. This is your Gateway Account.
Create a page to handle Other -> ripple
Create a page to handle ripple -> Other
Process for Other -> ripple
Collect from User their ripple Account where they want the IOU sent.
Once you get the money in from the Other source you simply make one RPC call to the ripple server to send the IOU to the user's account.
send an RPC submit: RPC API#submit
using something like this as the JSON: API Example Transactions#Basic IOU Send
User now has the Gateway IOU and can send it around to other people that accept your IOUs
Process for ripple -> Other
Collect from User the account they are sending from and the amount they are sending and whatever information you need to send them the Other payment. (Paypal address, dowlla ID, etc)
Tell user your Gateway Account address
Wait to see a transaction from the User's Account for the specified amount
You can either open a websocket to your rippled and handle the transaction events on your Gateway Account or
Periodically ask your rippled server for the recent transactions on your Gateway account and handle any payments
Once you receive the IOU back from the User you send the Other Payment.

I dont even know where to start only a computer programmer could think this is a simple guide, man you guys need help

What the fuck is a gateway?
Create a page to handle Other? huh what?
Process for Other -> ripple ? seriously
Once you get the money in from the Other source you simply make one RPC? simply this is not simple!!! no explanation of what a RNC is when you get the money in from where how?
send an RPC submit: RPC API#submit? no explanation what a API is
websocket?

Joel I have spent probably 10 hours dicking around on this site between today and other attempts in the past. I still have no fucking clue how to use your site.

I dont know if you guys are trying to do to much or what?

Look I am lucky if I can get a computer to turn on seriously my dad is a computer engineer who has owned his own software company for 20 years so I do have a little bit of experience. When you made this site did you only expect computer programmers to use it?  

Stop talk to robots and realize that human beings are going to be who users this.

Should I just give up and come back in a year? I am all about building the fuck out of a trust network can I use you site to do that or not?

You should read this post again in 5 years so you can read how stupid you are. You say you don´t understand so I tell you, this is the point where you apologize.

EDIT:

1. A Gateway is a trusted entity within the network that hands out IOU's
2. Other could be USD/LTC/BTC/EUR, but also BKW, my own currency that I'm planning to launch in my region so i can educate people on finance in order to save the planet from total destruction. Creating a page is just putting in a counter currency with bid and ask
3.Process other > ripple: This is the next step in the explanation, you can not really ask this as a question (see it more like the header of the next chapter in the explanation)
4. RPC and websocket I also don't know

If you have questions in the future i suggent you fiend a more polite way to putting them, because people really don't deserve to be spoken to the way you did, i suggest you do that on facebook.

[sublime5447]

Much better reply.. Thanks

Sorry for the negativity using a web site should be self explanatory. The point I am trying to make is that I am more computer literate than 70 percent of the people on the plant and I cant make heads or tails out of the site how is anyone else  

I shouldnt need to read for 10 hours and have to look up a thousand terms

They post simple on the header and it is far from it.

If the site isnt ready or they dont really expect people to use it then . I will just move on. I have Thousands of trades and can offer a good amount of people to really build up the network, but if I cant tell them how it works or why they should use it or help with the problems that they have then I cant get them to join.

It shouldnt be so hard to figure this shit out.  



You guy have a great flashy video on the site and a nice concept video on youtube, but how about one that is just a guy sitting in front of a computer walking you through the steps of how to use it?

Teach me how to use it and I will make a video, it would probably get a lot of hits

I know it is beta but most people would have given up a long time ago.

[sublime5447]

Fuck it I give up.

Sell it to the banks that is who it is designed for any way.

Sell it to wall street.   

 

[Sukrim]

While this sounds promising, I still don't see how it can turn Ripple into decentralized rather than distributed. The consensus system requires people to have similar UNLs. Democracy is distributed, however the resulting government is not decentralized.

(and similar statements before/after)

Imagine Bitcoin at it's infancy:
Satoshi publishes the initially mined chain (let's say with ~10 blocks) and a second user joins the network. This second user can now either generate a new genesis block or use the Satoshi chain. He chooses the latter and now user #3 can either start a new chain, or use the one from Satoshi and user #2 etc.

This is similar to how Ripple was running for quite some time now - third party validators can either start their new ledgers from 0 or join the one started by OpenCoin. This is still true today and in 5 years from now - everybody can choose freely to fire up rippled and start their own fork or use the one that was once 100% owned by 1 entity, then 50% by 2, then 33.3% by 3 etc.
Even if you have UNLs that do not contain Ripple Labs directly, you will either have to have someone who is on the main ledger in your UNL (or at least in your peer list...) or be on a forked net, just like in Bitcoin. Either you accept Satoshi as initial central bootstrapping entity or you don't. People can have vastly dissimilar UNLs by the way (and they maybe should) just as in Bitcoin you can have completely different miners and peers - if a miner builds on a different genesis block or a peer broadcasts a block based on a different genesis block though, you would regard them as invalid as Ripple would see a ledger that is not a result of the mainline ledger currently visible for example on s1.ripple.com.

Sorry for the negativity using a web site should be self explanatory. The point I am trying to make is that I am more computer literate than 70 percent of the people on the plant and I cant make heads or tails out of the site how is anyone else

Bold statement, though since a LOT of people do not have access to computers on this planet, that means you are likely in the bottom 50% or even 30% computer users in a western country.
You are actually trying to issue something that others should trust you, that you are competent to issue and redeem it. If reading (and asking without swearing/insulting ("Fuck it", "what the fuck is a gateway", "figure this shit out"...)) a few wiki pages is already too much, maybe you should look into hiring a consultant or taking private lessons. You current tone definitely does not encourage me to help you further. Also you do not really give hints on what your actual problem is, besides not understanding anything/being confused or frustrated. If you pose concrete questions (e.g. "I want to issue BTC IOUs from my ripple account, how do I do that and what do I have to keep in mind?") instead of "websocket?" (tried the Wikipedia page on that already?) this would also help people helping you.

Also keep in mind that issuing IOUs is something that likely is a regulated business in most countries, especially for fiat money. It is not really something that every user of Ripple would need to do at all and also right now there are FAR more people using Ripple more like a bank (in the sense of the payment processing part) than like a community credit system.

[sublime5447]

I have lost interest. It wasn't designed for me this is for the banks to use.

[Sukrim]

You seem to switch interests quite quickly...

I definitely use Ripple and I am not a bank - it might be the case though that it wasn't designed for you (quite likely, as you seem to have troubles understading some things and/or using the client UI) or your ideological goals (e.g. you were upset when it was mentioned that Ripple tries to fit into existing laws instead of ignoring governmental regulations).
Depending on how the journey goes, in the future you might use Ripple without even realizing it (services like BitPay are easy to implement using Ripple) if you continue using Bitcoin or other crypto-currencies.

Sorry to see you go, at least you tried to understand more about something instead of just repeating heresay and half-truths or plainly refusing the idea from the beginning without being able to give any reason.

[Mitzplik]

I doubt the creators of bitcoin have not retained a significant amount for them.

Who can say how concentrated are the bitcoins? Who owns the big amounts? The pope? Drug Dealers? FARCs? AlQaeda? UNICEF?

If there is some concentration, the big players interests will always be to promote the protocol, this way their assets will keep or increase their value. Or, if they have already made their money selling BTC, they could create another - better - replacement and make money again, or whatever they want. The protocol would belong to everyone.

I see ripple obeying the same logic, but in a less anonymous way. Now that its open source, Ripple Labs team will work on a common good which is the protocol, this way they can keep their assets valuable (XRP), otherwise, someone will fork the code and create a better code, and the XRPs will be garbage.