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Author Topic: Sniff ... do you smell smoke?  (Read 8374 times)
ShadowOfHarbringer
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February 20, 2011, 02:14:20 PM
 #21

Selling oil for dollar and for dollar only is the only thing, that is keeping that currency from hyperinflating.
I hear this all the time, but I don't understand it.

There's a free exchange market between dollars and Euros. So if Iran sells oil for dollars and immediately exchanges those for Euros, how is that any different from Iran selling oil for Euros directly? (Apart from the currency exchange costs, of course).

Simple.

All countries have to hold certain amounts of dollars on their accounts, as they will always need it to buy Oil. Because they are holding it, they need to buy it from time to time, which creates demand for dollar. And demand rises dollar price and keeps it from falling and keeps it in the market.

With Euro-based oil exchange, nobody would need dollar at all, so no country would hold it, so nobody (outside USA) would buy it, so it would have a small fraction of today's value. Hyperinflation.



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February 21, 2011, 07:38:04 PM
 #22

Selling oil for dollar and for dollar only is the only thing, that is keeping that currency from hyperinflating.
I hear this all the time, but I don't understand it.

There's a free exchange market between dollars and Euros. So if Iran sells oil for dollars and immediately exchanges those for Euros, how is that any different from Iran selling oil for Euros directly? (Apart from the currency exchange costs, of course).

Simple.

All countries have to hold certain amounts of dollars on their accounts, as they will always need it to buy Oil. Because they are holding it, they need to buy it from time to time, which creates demand for dollar. And demand rises dollar price and keeps it from falling and keeps it in the market.

With Euro-based oil exchange, nobody would need dollar at all, so no country would hold it, so nobody (outside USA) would buy it, so it would have a small fraction of today's value. Hyperinflation.


Wouldn't they do better to hold oil futures?

edit: and can't they buy those with any major currency?

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ShadowOfHarbringer
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February 21, 2011, 09:28:52 PM
 #23

Selling oil for dollar and for dollar only is the only thing, that is keeping that currency from hyperinflating.
I hear this all the time, but I don't understand it.

There's a free exchange market between dollars and Euros. So if Iran sells oil for dollars and immediately exchanges those for Euros, how is that any different from Iran selling oil for Euros directly? (Apart from the currency exchange costs, of course).

Simple.

All countries have to hold certain amounts of dollars on their accounts, as they will always need it to buy Oil. Because they are holding it, they need to buy it from time to time, which creates demand for dollar. And demand rises dollar price and keeps it from falling and keeps it in the market.

With Euro-based oil exchange, nobody would need dollar at all, so no country would hold it, so nobody (outside USA) would buy it, so it would have a small fraction of today's value. Hyperinflation.


Wouldn't they do better to hold oil futures?

edit: and can't they buy those with any major currency?

I do not posess such details. You need to check it out yourself.

However, I imagine that US government took care of that possibility. After all, their world hegemony & military domination comes from taxing entire world with their always inflating currency.

Inflation = tax. When dollar inflates, US taxes entire world (because there is more dollar outside of US than inside US). This is the greatest thievery of the century, or perhaps even in history of mankind by the way.

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February 22, 2011, 08:00:38 AM
 #24

Selling oil for dollar and for dollar only is the only thing, that is keeping that currency from hyperinflating.
I hear this all the time, but I don't understand it.

There's a free exchange market between dollars and Euros. So if Iran sells oil for dollars and immediately exchanges those for Euros, how is that any different from Iran selling oil for Euros directly? (Apart from the currency exchange costs, of course).

Simple.

All countries have to hold certain amounts of dollars on their accounts, as they will always need it to buy Oil. Because they are holding it, they need to buy it from time to time, which creates demand for dollar. And demand rises dollar price and keeps it from falling and keeps it in the market.

With Euro-based oil exchange, nobody would need dollar at all, so no country would hold it, so nobody (outside USA) would buy it, so it would have a small fraction of today's value. Hyperinflation.


Wouldn't they do better to hold oil futures?

edit: and can't they buy those with any major currency?

Yes, and basicly everyone does this to some degree, but there remains a limit as to how well hedged any single nation can really be because ultimately the contracts have to be settled in US currency per international treaties.  This is a *major* part of the artificial demand that supports the value of the US dollar, but this will not ultimately prevent the US dollar from collapse.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
ShadowOfHarbringer
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February 22, 2011, 08:29:39 AM
 #25

Wouldn't they do better to hold oil futures?

edit: and can't they buy those with any major currency?

Yes, and basicly everyone does this to some degree, but there remains a limit as to how well hedged any single nation can really be because ultimately the contracts have to be settled in US currency per international treaties.  This is a *major* part of the artificial demand that supports the value of the US dollar, but this will not ultimately prevent the US dollar from collapse.

Well, i hope it collapses soon.
The quicker it fails, the better it is for everyone (especially Bitcoiners Tongue).

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April 04, 2011, 03:33:02 PM
 #26

Where can I trade Bitcoins for Crude oil?

Nowhere.  Even Europeans have to buy oil inUS$ due to the Bretton Woods Treaty.  The Russians & Chinese would buy/sell oil in gold or their own currencies in a heartbeat if that wouldn't get them sideways with the US fed.


The Chinese and Russian DO buy it with their own currencies now, they signed a treaty a few months back that took that U.S. out as the reserve currency.  That's one of the major reasons for the U.S. going to so many wars lately, they're trying to keep there position of power over the world, but since up to 50% of earth no longer accepts U.S. currencies (including large parts of the U.S.) their already toast.
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April 04, 2011, 04:28:24 PM
 #27

Where can I trade Bitcoins for Crude oil?
Don't do that for the love of all things holy.

btc address:1MEyKbVbmMVzVxLdLmt4Zf1SZHFgj56aqg
gpg fingerprint:DD1AB28F8043D0837C86A4CA7D6367953C6FE9DC

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April 04, 2011, 04:34:03 PM
 #28

Well, i hope it collapses soon.
The quicker it fails, the better it is for everyone (especially Bitcoiners Tongue).

Except for all the people who'll probably end up dying in the collapse. It's hardly going to be better for them.

Sorry. Quite a few of my friends and family can't afford to hedge against such an event. While I know it's coming, and while I've done my best to hedge myself and warn others, I'm acutely aware that I'm probably going to fare much better than most of the people I'm close to. It's frustrating and a little frightening to imagine what things will look like when the sh*t hits the fan.  Undecided
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April 04, 2011, 04:37:03 PM
 #29

It's frustrating and a little frightening to imagine what things will look like when the sh*t hits the fan.  Undecided
No need to imagine, just look at the periphery of the empire. The collapse has begun

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MoonShadow
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April 04, 2011, 05:48:23 PM
 #30

Where can I trade Bitcoins for Crude oil?

Nowhere.  Even Europeans have to buy oil inUS$ due to the Bretton Woods Treaty.  The Russians & Chinese would buy/sell oil in gold or their own currencies in a heartbeat if that wouldn't get them sideways with the US fed.


The Chinese and Russian DO buy it with their own currencies now, they signed a treaty a few months back that took that U.S. out as the reserve currency.  That's one of the major reasons for the U.S. going to so many wars lately, they're trying to keep there position of power over the world, but since up to 50% of earth no longer accepts U.S. currencies (including large parts of the U.S.) their already toast.

Even that only applies to direct trade of crude between Russia and China.  Which, admittedly, is a pretty large market; but by itself is not a game-changing event.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
MoonShadow
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April 04, 2011, 05:54:21 PM
 #31

It's frustrating and a little frightening to imagine what things will look like when the sh*t hits the fan.  Undecided
No need to imagine, just look at the periphery of the empire. The collapse has begun

Honestly, looking in the rear view mirror, one can see signs of a breakdown of an empire as far back as 1970.  And the same could be said for the USSR as far back as 1955.  The problem of a collapsing empire is that it takes quite a long time, and there is no reason to suspect that the modern world will be significantly quicker at such things than the Roman or Ottoman empires.  The risks are in the transitional periods anyway, at least to the individual.  Clans will fare better, as happened to Roman enclaves as the Roman empire imploded.  The small independently functioning regions loyal to Rome preserved the culture for generations longer, functioning as city-states.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
ShadowOfHarbringer
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April 04, 2011, 09:59:04 PM
 #32

Well, i hope it collapses soon.
The quicker it fails, the better it is for everyone (especially Bitcoiners Tongue).

Except for all the people who'll probably end up dying in the collapse. It's hardly going to be better for them.

Sorry. Quite a few of my friends and family can't afford to hedge against such an event. While I know it's coming, and while I've done my best to hedge myself and warn others, I'm acutely aware that I'm probably going to fare much better than most of the people I'm close to. It's frustrating and a little frightening to imagine what things will look like when the sh*t hits the fan.  Undecided

Well. Certain things just have to happen, whether we like it or not.
The economy as of now is one big lie and manipulation, it has to and it will collapse ultimately.

Of course, you can warn your friends.... but since they are hopelessly dependant on the system, it is extremely hard to separate them from it (if possible at all).

Don't blame yourself needlessly, you have probably done everything you could without being seen as an insane person / conspiracy theorist / whatever.

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April 04, 2011, 11:30:56 PM
 #33

Susan Lindauer is a CIA asset who was jailed without a trial for a year after whistleblowing re: 9/11. She was a diplomat working with Iraq and Libya. She claims that the reason we're going after Libya's oil is that most of the pipelines and other infrastructure in Iraq were damaged so badly during the Iraq war that we can't access the oil. She also says that she expects Qaddafi to torch his oil fields if he finds himself losing.

Anyone ever seen any data about Iraq oil infrastructure?
Stephen Gornick
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April 24, 2012, 08:34:03 PM
 #34

There's that smell again ... I can't quite put a finger on it though.



 - http://bpp.mit.edu/usa


Also, 8 year gas chart (U.S. Average):



 - http://www.gasbuddy.com/gb_retail_price_chart.aspx?time=96

ShadowOfHarbringer
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April 24, 2012, 09:23:30 PM
 #35

There's that smell again ... I can't quite put a finger on it though.



 - http://bpp.mit.edu/usa

Also, 8 year gas chart (U.S. Average):



 - http://www.gasbuddy.com/gb_retail_price_chart.aspx?time=96

No brainer.
All that happened in 2008-2009 is bound to happen again, because the old system stayed in place, nothing changed.
But when it happens the next time, it will be impossible to save the current system - no bailouts will ever be big enough to help.

If your children (banks,funds) are spoiled, then how should you correct them? By punishing them with rod (money cuts, bankrupcies) or perhaps giving them more candy (bailouts) ?

OMG, this is going to be one one of the greatest economical collapses of all times. Just sit and watch.

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April 28, 2012, 01:37:16 AM
 #36

the question only is: how long will it take?

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April 28, 2012, 01:45:26 AM
 #37

I wish gas where I live was under $4/gal. I live in a small town that has 1 gas station and price gouging here is ridiculous. The owner of the gas station has another one in a town with 3 gas stations and the prices are 5 cents cheaper per gallon.

In summary, gas station in my town with no competitor= $4.079/gal
gas station next town over (6 miles away) with competitors=$4.029/gal
Same gas, same delivery truck.

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April 28, 2012, 01:51:10 AM
 #38

I wish gas where I live was under $4/gal. I live in a small town that has 1 gas station and price gouging here is ridiculous. The owner of the gas station has another one in a town with 3 gas stations and the prices are 5 cents cheaper per gallon.

In summary, gas station in my town with no competitor= $4.079/gal
gas station next town over (6 miles away) with competitors=$4.029/gal
Same gas, same delivery truck.


You do realise that's a price difference of about 1.25% right?  I often see larger price differences from one block to the next and from morning to night at the same station.  Dude, you're not getting gouged.  If he actually has a monopoly at one station in the area, you're very lucky the price difference isn't 50 cents per gallon.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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April 28, 2012, 04:36:43 PM
 #39

sub

for some reason, i can't access the data myself. do i need an account at their site?
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April 28, 2012, 05:39:26 PM
 #40

for some reason, i can't access the data myself. do i need an account at their site?

The BPP site?

They use Flash and they changed their URL structure since the OP and I can't get a URL to work for any country other than USA, and using the Flash app never gets past "collecting data".

My guess is that it is not being kept up-to-date except for the U.S.

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