Build this and I will come

[sublime5447]

on your face  JK


So as many of your know I have decided to back away for now. Bitcoin is a cool technology but it has given us the ability to by pass the government and financial institutions with out the tools to make it viable. The guys at ripple see this too and are working on building a trust network but is far from complete or stream lined and has other issues of centralization that make it some what more susceptible to intervention. (they may be able to work that out)   

For me to use Bitcoin I need to know who I am trading with so that I can move funds between reversible and irreversible systems.     

What I need is a decentralized system of reputation management.  I want to be able to

1. ID... I want to link my real world identity to my wallet
2. Import trust... I want to link to other areas of my life to provide evidence of my character. I need to be able to import trust. 
3. Rate.. I need to be able to rate right to someones wallet ID.. That way I can choose not to transact with people that have no ratings or have been flagged with a neg rating. I bought coins about 2 weeks ago that i later found out were stolen. i dont like that
4. See the people that the people I trust trust and their reputaion.
5. Have a client that isn't susceptible to hacks that is always synced. I want my mom to be able use bitcoin too. Dont let people sign up if you cant make them safe. 
6. have a system for implementing changes

Do these things and I will come....back.


Not asking for much I know . to be honest I dont know if technology is capable of creating a system like this. My dad is a computer engineer who has owned his own software company for 20+ years and he says if a man made it a man can break it. 


This is off a different thread ---

"I am not saying it can never work just that it doesnt work now. The guys at ripple are working on some innovations that may make it viable.

I think this is the root of the problem. In early human civilization trade was simple because you knew the history and reputation of the people that you traded with, but as civilizations grew the desire to trade outside of your trust network grew. So the need for middlemen and financial institutions came about. The problem is those institutions have siphoned off the productive efforts of their citizens or customers and have grown so powerful because of their privilege and have created a world dominated and control at gun point giving us ever growing police states and to big to fail banks. They no longer work for us but we work for them.

So the challenge as I see it is to recreate early civilization. We have a technology that can enable the entire world to know each others reputation. We can know the character of every man women and child on the planet. I will gladly trade without institutions or the protection of the state if i can know who I am dealing with. So far the reputation centers around bitcoin all start from scratch, We need a reputaion center that allows you to import trust from other areas of life, I think the guys at ripple are working on that, but as it stands now it is unusable IMO."         

[IncreaseMyT]

I do not understand why someone would rate wallets though, it would seem to make much more sense to me to be a trusted merchant.

Then you could choose to spend your bitcoins with merchants that you trust, and develop your own network.

This is no different than the real world, people get ripped off daily and don't get what they thought they were getting.  These business are usually ousted in some way and cannot stand the test of time.

I don't want people rating my wallet, this can work in reverse on you.  For instance you engage in a transaction and you fully adhered to your side of the deal, whatever that may be and the other user rates you negatively.  Now you have a ding on your credit that you do not deserve.

Why not just make trusted retailers within the network?  Make people apply to get some cert or icon if they want to be trusted.

No need to wreck the entire foundation of Bitcoin and start another path, all of your concerns can be satisfied and still let people have the privacy of their own wallet.

As per your grandma, why on earth does she need to use bitcoins today?  She doesn't, I am sure as people grow older that are more accustomed to digital technology like the internet can use bitcoins, it does not take a rocket scientist to figure out how to download and use a desktop client, especially if your on a mac

[the joint]

on your face  JK


So as many of your know I have decided to back away for now. Bitcoin is a cool technology but it has given us the ability to by pass the government and financial institutions with out the tools to make it viable. The guys at ripple see this too and are working on building a trust network but is far from complete or stream lined and has other issues of centralization that make it some what more susceptible to intervention. (they may be able to work that out)   

For me to use Bitcoin I need to know who I am trading with so that I can move funds between reversible and irreversible systems.     

What I need is a decentralized system of reputation management.  I want to be able to

1. ID... I want to link my real world identity to my wallet
2. Import trust... I want to link to other areas of my life to provide evidence of my character. I need to be able to import trust. 
3. Rate.. I need to be able to rate right to someones wallet ID.. That way I can choose not to transact with people that have no ratings or have been flagged with a neg rating. I bought coins about 2 weeks ago that i later found out were stolen. i dont like that
4. See the people that the people I trust trust and their reputaion.
5. Have a client that isn't susceptible to hacks that is always synced. I want my mom to be able use bitcoin too. Dont let people sign up if you cant make them safe. 
6. have a system for implementing changes

Do these things and I will come....back.


Not asking for much I know . to be honest I dont know if technology is capable of creating a system like this. My dad is a computer engineer who has owned his own software company for 20+ years and he says if a man made it a man can break it. 


This is off a different thread ---

"I am not saying it can never work just that it doesnt work now. The guys at ripple are working on some innovations that may make it viable.

I think this is the root of the problem. In early human civilization trade was simple because you knew the history and reputation of the people that you traded with, but as civilizations grew the desire to trade outside of your trust network grew. So the need for middlemen and financial institutions came about. The problem is those institutions have siphoned off the productive efforts of their citizens or customers and have grown so powerful because of their privilege and have created a world dominated and control at gun point giving us ever growing police states and to big to fail banks. They no longer work for us but we work for them.

So the challenge as I see it is to recreate early civilization. We have a technology that can enable the entire world to know each others reputation. We can know the character of every man women and child on the planet. I will gladly trade without institutions or the protection of the state if i can know who I am dealing with. So far the reputation centers around bitcoin all start from scratch, We need a reputaion center that allows you to import trust from other areas of life, I think the guys at ripple are working on that, but as it stands now it is unusable IMO."         

1.) There are a number of ways of linking your ID to an address.  But, while remaining decentralized, how do you propose stopping people from linking fabricated identities to an address?

2, 3, 4.) While remaining decentralized, how do you propose stopping people from creating multiple accounts and giving themselves fabricated feedback?  Or, how would you stop me from givin you infinitely negative feedback without just cause?

5.) We already do have clients that are virtually hack proof assuming you use them correctly.  I think you mean 'computers' that are hack proof.  The problem you seem to have is that you keep blaming "tech" stuff you admittedly don't understand.  The result is that you're identifying problems that are inaccurately defined, or that may not even be a problem at all.  Besides, what part of 'beta' project don't you understand?  Bitcoin isn't even an alpha release yet!  This should be a resoundingly clear indicator of its current (key word) risk.

6.) We have a system for implementing changes. It's called open-source code and miner voting power.

[AU]

A successful merchant got hacked/scammed whatever.. I feel your pain man but the answer isn't walking away. Just establish stronger relationships with peeps you trust. Use more caution

[cbhelp]

Or....

Dont accept PayPal for bitcoins...stop trying to find a way to get around that fact.

[sublime5447]

Or....

Dont accept PayPal for bitcoins...stop trying to find a way to get around that fact.

It has to happen for it to work. Period

You have to be able to trade for debit card payments, paypal, credit cards, bank transfer. That is the only way. 

[sublime5447]

on your face  JK


So as many of your know I have decided to back away for now. Bitcoin is a cool technology but it has given us the ability to by pass the government and financial institutions with out the tools to make it viable. The guys at ripple see this too and are working on building a trust network but is far from complete or stream lined and has other issues of centralization that make it some what more susceptible to intervention. (they may be able to work that out)   

For me to use Bitcoin I need to know who I am trading with so that I can move funds between reversible and irreversible systems.     

What I need is a decentralized system of reputation management.  I want to be able to

1. ID... I want to link my real world identity to my wallet
2. Import trust... I want to link to other areas of my life to provide evidence of my character. I need to be able to import trust. 
3. Rate.. I need to be able to rate right to someones wallet ID.. That way I can choose not to transact with people that have no ratings or have been flagged with a neg rating. I bought coins about 2 weeks ago that i later found out were stolen. i dont like that
4. See the people that the people I trust trust and their reputaion.
5. Have a client that isn't susceptible to hacks that is always synced. I want my mom to be able use bitcoin too. Dont let people sign up if you cant make them safe. 
6. have a system for implementing changes

Do these things and I will come....back.


Not asking for much I know . to be honest I dont know if technology is capable of creating a system like this. My dad is a computer engineer who has owned his own software company for 20+ years and he says if a man made it a man can break it. 


This is off a different thread ---

"I am not saying it can never work just that it doesnt work now. The guys at ripple are working on some innovations that may make it viable.

I think this is the root of the problem. In early human civilization trade was simple because you knew the history and reputation of the people that you traded with, but as civilizations grew the desire to trade outside of your trust network grew. So the need for middlemen and financial institutions came about. The problem is those institutions have siphoned off the productive efforts of their citizens or customers and have grown so powerful because of their privilege and have created a world dominated and control at gun point giving us ever growing police states and to big to fail banks. They no longer work for us but we work for them.

So the challenge as I see it is to recreate early civilization. We have a technology that can enable the entire world to know each others reputation. We can know the character of every man women and child on the planet. I will gladly trade without institutions or the protection of the state if i can know who I am dealing with. So far the reputation centers around bitcoin all start from scratch, We need a reputaion center that allows you to import trust from other areas of life, I think the guys at ripple are working on that, but as it stands now it is unusable IMO."         

1.) There are a number of ways of linking your ID to an address.  But, while remaining decentralized, how do you propose stopping people from linking fabricated identities to an address?

2, 3, 4.) While remaining decentralized, how do you propose stopping people from creating multiple accounts and giving themselves fabricated feedback?  Or, how would you stop me from givin you infinitely negative feedback without just cause?

5.) We already do have clients that are virtually hack proof assuming you use them correctly.  I think you mean 'computers' that are hack proof.  The problem you seem to have is that you keep blaming "tech" stuff you admittedly don't understand.  The result is that you're identifying problems that are inaccurately defined, or that may not even be a problem at all.  Besides, what part of 'beta' project don't you understand?  Bitcoin isn't even an alpha release yet!  This should be a resoundingly clear indicator of its current (key word) risk.

6.) We have a system for implementing changes. It's called open-source code and miner voting power.

I dont have the answers but when they are built I will be back.

[cbhelp]

http://imgur.com/sNZfZLS.gif

[countryfree]

Social networks can be a system of reputation management, but they don't belong to the blockchain. The dollar has been very successful without a reputation management system built-in. We shall see BTC for what it is: a currency. There will always be good and bad people, exchanging fiat or BTC, but neither fiat nor BTC has any responsibility in telling who's who.

[the joint]

on your face   JK


So as many of your know I have decided to back away for now. Bitcoin is a cool technology but it has given us the ability to by pass the government and financial institutions with out the tools to make it viable. The guys at ripple see this too and are working on building a trust network but is far from complete or stream lined and has other issues of centralization that make it some what more susceptible to intervention. (they may be able to work that out)  

For me to use Bitcoin I need to know who I am trading with so that I can move funds between reversible and irreversible systems.    

What I need is a decentralized system of reputation management.  I want to be able to

1. ID... I want to link my real world identity to my wallet
2. Import trust... I want to link to other areas of my life to provide evidence of my character. I need to be able to import trust.  
3. Rate.. I need to be able to rate right to someones wallet ID.. That way I can choose not to transact with people that have no ratings or have been flagged with a neg rating. I bought coins about 2 weeks ago that i later found out were stolen. i dont like that
4. See the people that the people I trust trust and their reputaion.
5. Have a client that isn't susceptible to hacks that is always synced. I want my mom to be able use bitcoin too. Dont let people sign up if you cant make them safe.  
6. have a system for implementing changes

Do these things and I will come....back.


Not asking for much I know . to be honest I dont know if technology is capable of creating a system like this. My dad is a computer engineer who has owned his own software company for 20+ years and he says if a man made it a man can break it.  


This is off a different thread ---

"I am not saying it can never work just that it doesnt work now. The guys at ripple are working on some innovations that may make it viable.

I think this is the root of the problem. In early human civilization trade was simple because you knew the history and reputation of the people that you traded with, but as civilizations grew the desire to trade outside of your trust network grew. So the need for middlemen and financial institutions came about. The problem is those institutions have siphoned off the productive efforts of their citizens or customers and have grown so powerful because of their privilege and have created a world dominated and control at gun point giving us ever growing police states and to big to fail banks. They no longer work for us but we work for them.

So the challenge as I see it is to recreate early civilization. We have a technology that can enable the entire world to know each others reputation. We can know the character of every man women and child on the planet. I will gladly trade without institutions or the protection of the state if i can know who I am dealing with. So far the reputation centers around bitcoin all start from scratch, We need a reputaion center that allows you to import trust from other areas of life, I think the guys at ripple are working on that, but as it stands now it is unusable IMO."        

1.) There are a number of ways of linking your ID to an address.  But, while remaining decentralized, how do you propose stopping people from linking fabricated identities to an address?

2, 3, 4.) While remaining decentralized, how do you propose stopping people from creating multiple accounts and giving themselves fabricated feedback?  Or, how would you stop me from givin you infinitely negative feedback without just cause?

5.) We already do have clients that are virtually hack proof assuming you use them correctly.  I think you mean 'computers' that are hack proof.  The problem you seem to have is that you keep blaming "tech" stuff you admittedly don't understand.  The result is that you're identifying problems that are inaccurately defined, or that may not even be a problem at all.  Besides, what part of 'beta' project don't you understand?  Bitcoin isn't even an alpha release yet!  This should be a resoundingly clear indicator of its current (key word) risk.

6.) We have a system for implementing changes. It's called open-source code and miner voting power.

I dont have the answers but when they are built I will be back.

I want a car with unbreakable components - I should never have to worry about a flat tire, changing oil or batteries, and it certainly shouldn't ever be possible for me to get into an accident.  When they build cars like this, ill be back.

I'm not sure you got the point of my reply.  If I came in to your auto shop and I mentioned to you what I stated above, you'd think I'm nuts.  It's the nature of components to wear and break down over time, and a car wouldn't really be a car if it were impossible to crash it.  Likewise, some of your demands are infeasible if not impossible altogether, and furthermore, most of your complaints already have implimented solutions, but you didnt care to familiarize yourself with them. But, you don't know this is the case because, as you admitted, you don't get "tech" stuff.  However, then you go about blaming BTC for its shortcomings when really you should be focusing on your own ignorance.  

If you don't recognize how your ignorance is influencing your opinion, then you'll likely never use BTC again.  If I don't do the same, ill never drive a car again.

On a side note, i'd encourage you to think about some of your ideas  about how you would like Bitcoin to look, and then try to think about why some of them are just bad ideas altogether that, if implemented, I'd bet you'd hate.

[smoothie]

So how do you stop a spam rating that is negative?

Reminds me of the BS credit rating system we have today. They dont care if you pay your rent, cell, and other bills on time.

Only ones they care about is your debt payments based on a loan you took out to buy something.

Technically that system is biased towards people who like to be debt slaves.

[QuestionAuthority]

You're all putting too much effort into this. Here's the correct answer: That's ok, we don't want to play with you anyway.

[johnyj]

I think this is the root of the problem. In early human civilization trade was simple because you knew the history and reputation of the people that you traded with, but as civilizations grew the desire to trade outside of your trust network grew. So the need for middlemen and financial institutions came about. The problem is those institutions have siphoned off the productive efforts of their citizens or customers and have grown so powerful because of their privilege and have created a world dominated and control at gun point giving us ever growing police states and to big to fail banks. They no longer work for us but we work for them.

So the challenge as I see it is to recreate early civilization. We have a technology that can enable the entire world to know each others reputation. We can know the character of every man women and child on the planet. I will gladly trade without institutions or the protection of the state if i can know who I am dealing with. So far the reputation centers around bitcoin all start from scratch, We need a reputaion center that allows you to import trust from other areas of life, I think the guys at ripple are working on that, but as it stands now it is unusable IMO."        

What if a man you highly trust become manipulated? In today's society, it's impossible to purely rely on trust, you should only rely on your own risk management, e.g. never risk more than you can afford to lose, then all the problem around trust is solved. Being a bitcoiner, the most important thing is risk management. And by doing this you also preserve the privacy, which lots of people (especially high net worth people) desire

[sublime5447]

I should never have to worry about a flat tire, changing oil or batteries, and it certainly shouldn't ever be possible for me to get into an accident.  When they build cars like this, ill be back.

There are acceptable cost and unacceptable cost (which is a matter of opinion). It is a trade off. I agree tires shouldnt go flat and batteries should last the life of a car, but the cost of tires at this time that wont go flat is prohibitive. Other people feel the same way that is why they developed run flat tires and long lasting batteries, it is just a trade off more cost for less hassle.

With BTC there are alternatives. There are money transfer system that offer protection and positive identification. In your analogy there are no cars that can never be involved in an accident in the future there will be automated cars that never (or almost never) have accidents. When that time comes most people wont be interested in buying a car that is a death trap if it makes financial sense.

If you don't recognize how your ignorance is influencing your opinion, then you'll likely never use BTC again.

That is okay there is no loss of quality of life if i never use bitcoin, other payment processors exist. That dont ask that I learn It skills or net security. Bitcoin is a tool if there are better tools what do I care.

 

On a side note, i'd encourage you to think about some of your ideas  about how you would like Bitcoin to look, and then try to think about why some of them are just bad ideas altogether that, if implemented, I'd bet you'd hate.

I already use these methods and like them quite nicely. I dont have access to bio metrics or finger print data, but I establish identity the with the best methods available when I first started selling coins i would only sell through Facebook, I could glean lots of information about the character and identity of the people i was dealing with, I already use a system of rating here on this forum. Coinbase has a wallet that requires sms verification that I use that as a primary wallet.

So how do you stop a spam rating that is negative

You dont how do they stop that here? This trust system works just fine.

 Reminds me of the BS credit rating system we have today

That is a bullshit system, there is no method of rebuttal

 There are a number of ways of linking your ID to an address.  But, while remaining decentralized, how do you propose stopping people from linking fabricated identities to an address?

You dont.. If someone has access to email and can verify it and access to facebook and can verify it and access to power bills and can verify it is 99.9 % that it is them. The way I Id is email verification, paypal verification, facebook verification, drivers licence verification, IP verification. Look at coinbases verification. They know what truck I owned in 2000 and the closest highway to my house in 97.

Bitcoin and the community might not want to admit it but you are competing with the existing system, people are not gonna become It professionals so they can send money. They dont have to with other methods.
      

[sublime5447]

You're all putting too much effort into this. Here's the correct answer: That's ok, we don't want to play with you anyway.

Wait that is my view point

[sublime5447]

I think this is the root of the problem. In early human civilization trade was simple because you knew the history and reputation of the people that you traded with, but as civilizations grew the desire to trade outside of your trust network grew. So the need for middlemen and financial institutions came about. The problem is those institutions have siphoned off the productive efforts of their citizens or customers and have grown so powerful because of their privilege and have created a world dominated and control at gun point giving us ever growing police states and to big to fail banks. They no longer work for us but we work for them.

So the challenge as I see it is to recreate early civilization. We have a technology that can enable the entire world to know each others reputation. We can know the character of every man women and child on the planet. I will gladly trade without institutions or the protection of the state if i can know who I am dealing with. So far the reputation centers around bitcoin all start from scratch, We need a reputaion center that allows you to import trust from other areas of life, I think the guys at ripple are working on that, but as it stands now it is unusable IMO."        

What if a man you highly trust become manipulated? In today's society, it's impossible to purely rely on trust, you should only rely on your own risk management, e.g. never risk more than you can afford to lose, then all the problem around trust is solved. Being a bitcoiner, the most important thing is risk management. And by doing this you also preserve the privacy, which lots of people (especially high net worth people) desire

It is very good at doing that and if that is your only motivation then there is no need to go further, but the only things that happen in secrecy is nefarious.

If bitcoin is only good for buying drugs, gambling, or paying for peep shows that is fine but is of no interest to me.

I am asking that it do both open and honest transactions and private and nefarious ones too.   

[sublime5447]

Social networks can be a system of reputation management, but they don't belong to the blockchain. The dollar has been very successful without a reputation management system built-in. We shall see BTC for what it is: a currency. There will always be good and bad people, exchanging fiat or BTC, but neither fiat nor BTC has any responsibility in telling who's who.

Yes it does it is called the court system

[sublime5447]

but the only things that happen in secrecy is nefarious.

Wut? Wanting privacy is nefarious?

Bullshit. In today's world there are countless reasons to value privacy.

unfortunately that is true, but as you point out in today's world. Because others believe they can dictate what can and can not be done there are valid reasons for secrecy.

I dont consider smoking week to be nefarious but because others do and have the supposed right to enforce their world view on others it does create the need for secrecy.    
 

That is why I ask that it do both.
    

[madmadmax]

tl:dr

Put up bounty and people will do it, no one cares if you "come"

[sublime5447]

Social networks can be a system of reputation management, but they don't belong to the blockchain. The dollar has been very successful without a reputation management system built-in. We shall see BTC for what it is: a currency. There will always be good and bad people, exchanging fiat or BTC, but neither fiat nor BTC has any responsibility in telling who's who.

Yes it does it is called the court system

Those with the most dollars can afford competent lawyers who are capable of revealing the loopholes in the system. Those without dollars, fuck 'em.

Once again we agree, but there is at least the pretense of a system for retribution.