Build this and I will come

[sublime5447]

tl:dr

Put up bounty and people will do it, no one cares if you "come"

that is fine but if you cant persuade me (who wants it work) you will never get the general population to use it. They dont know that the worlds financial system is flawed the dont realize the mechanism that creates war and inequality is the control of money. They dont give a shit about that. All they know is that this is easier or this is better. 

[sublime5447]

Once again we agree, but there is at least the pretense of system for retribution.

I find we agree quite often, on many things, except for when we don't!

I think a major point of contention between us is that I consider Bitcoin a store of value while you do not. I don't quite grasp the concept that something can be "currency" without being a store of value. Why would I accept it if it didn't hold value (at least long enough for me to get rid of it). I will even admit that fiat is a store of value for short periods of time.

I know that Bitcoin has been extremely volatile (which takes away from it's ability to store value), but I also understand that when you introduce a disruptive technology like this, there will be a period of adjustment (possibly quite a long one).

Once again I agree that fiat is a store of value over the short term and so is bitcoin but the difference between money and currency is that money is a store of value over the long term and currency is just a means of transacting. Money is a store of value over time because it is a commodity oil would be good money if it was easily transported, so would chickens they have real value and are not just a representation of value.  

 

[QuestionAuthority]

Once again we agree, but there is at least the pretense of system for retribution.

I find we agree quite often, on many things, except for when we don't!

I think a major point of contention between us is that I consider Bitcoin a store of value while you do not. I don't quite grasp the concept that something can be "currency" without being a store of value. Why would I accept it if it didn't hold value (at least long enough for me to get rid of it). I will even admit that fiat is a store of value for short periods of time.

I know that Bitcoin has been extremely volatile (which takes away from it's ability to store value), but I also understand that when you introduce a disruptive technology like this, there will be a period of adjustment (possibly quite a long one).

Once again I agree that fiat is a store of value over the short term and so is bitcoin but the difference between money and currency is that money is a store of value over the long term and currency is just a means of transacting. Money is a store of value over time because it is a commodity oil would be good money if it was easily transported, so would chickens they have real value and are not just a representation of value.  

Bitcoin has been designed from the ground up to have all of the valuable properties of a commodity money without the drawbacks of having an alternate purpose. This is superior, in my mind, to a commodity which may fluctuate in value for various reasons having nothing to do with it being used as money.

Except for being innately fungible.

[sublime5447]

It comes down to this for me.

Money is real wealth

Currency is the illusion of wealth.

Bitcoin is just an idea ones and zeros floating in the clouds. I cant eat it or cloth myself with it. It requires the internet and electricity which a large portion of the world doesnt have. I can go any where in the world with a chicken as money and it will be valuable. I wouldnt recommend saving with bitcoin it isn't real.   

[sublime5447]

Maybe spider silk or nano bees.

Obvious reasons why chickens dont make good money, but anything real is better to store wealth than currency.

I dont recommend keeping fiat as savings either, lucky for me i dont have to worry about it. I dont have money or currency. 

Bitcoin could be good currency but will never be good money.

[NewLiberty]

Or....

Dont accept PayPal for bitcoins...stop trying to find a way to get around that fact.

It has to happen for it to work. Period

You have to be able to trade for debit card payments, paypal, credit cards, bank transfer. That is the only way. 

If you strap an eagle to a dinosaur, it may not benefit either, but think about it in other ways, all of these can exist, it doesn't have to be a direct tether, there may be another path, don't give up.

[Dabs]

If you see bitcoins coming from this address: 1DabsXmraEr18jdEryck8jzcFku873xmRf

You can consider it green. It will not be double-spent. It is linked to this forum.

Code:

1DabsXmraEr18jdEryck8jzcFku873xmRf
Dabs on bitcointalk.org
H6AqbbetO0ltHYIrGOuTU3V0e40JYoFxurh9TYp0hcrkdpRghJd9REOUruFdeQNaqrZIkk/n3/uYgYkvdnovPz4=

And, I will probably use that address for maybe another 2^256 times, or until ECDSA is broken, or the RNG on my offline computer is broken, whichever comes first.

Of course, I still suggest you wait at least one (1) confirmation.

[dyingdreams]

1. ID... I want to link my real world identity to my wallet
2. Import trust... I want to link to other areas of my life to provide evidence of my character. I need to be able to import trust. 
3. Rate.. I need to be able to rate right to someones wallet ID.. That way I can choose not to transact with people that have no ratings or have been flagged with a neg rating. I bought coins about 2 weeks ago that i later found out were stolen. i dont like that
4. See the people that the people I trust trust and their reputaion.
5. Have a client that isn't susceptible to hacks that is always synced. I want my mom to be able use bitcoin too. Dont let people sign up if you cant make them safe. 
6. have a system for implementing changes

Some of these things already exist in some form, and none of them would've prevented what happened to you.

[sublime5447]

You keep going back to the wallet hack and I keep telling you that is not why I am getting out of supporting and using coins. There are many factors that is a small one.

[dyingdreams]

You keep going back to the wallet hack and I keep telling you that is not why I am getting out of supporting and using coins. There are many factors that is a small one.

Yes it is....

"Someone hacked my wallet.

September 27, 2013, 10:07:04 PM

Not that any body around here gives a fuck and I am sure that its my fucking fault so you can save you fucking comments.

This was it for me. I am gonna forget about fucking coins."


Seriously sublime, this needs to stop. How self-important can you be to expect something as big bitcoin to undergo radical change just because you're unwilling to make a change as simple as adding two-factor authentication. 12 year old who play WoW have 2FA on their Battle.net account, but you act like it's some moral offense that you should have to do the same.

[og kush420]

people who want to be transparent and use their real identity with bitcoin already can do so, they dont need the information to be encoded into the bitcoin transaction. and those who do not, dont have to. bitcoin lets you decide. but when you hand a dollar to someone, it doesn't come with a copy of thier identity and their personal info. obviously that would be dangerous

[the joint]

You keep going back to the wallet hack and I keep telling you that is not why I am getting out of supporting and using coins. There are many factors that is a small one.

Yes it is....

"Someone hacked my wallet.

September 27, 2013, 10:07:04 PM

Not that any body around here gives a fuck and I am sure that its my fucking fault so you can save you fucking comments.

This was it for me. I am gonna forget about fucking coins."


Seriously sublime, this needs to stop. How self-important can you be to expect something as big bitcoin to undergo radical change just because you're unwilling to make a change as simple as adding two-factor authentication. 12 year old who play WoW have 2FA on their Battle.net account, but you act like it's some moral offense that you should have to do the same.

This is basically what I was thinking, though I didn't respond as bluntly.

This whole thing started off with you (sublime) being robbed of <2 btc. Then, when the attention shifted toward your lack of care regarding the mismanagement of your funds, you got defensive.  So, you began finding anything negative that you could say about BTC regardless of whether it was relevant to the theft.  This is obvious -- how could someone who claims to lack technical knowledge know why some particular aspect of BTC is flawed and then assume that there must be a fix?  Hint: you can, but you're likely going to be wrong right from the get go.  Most of your criticisms are non-issues because there are already solutions to them, while other criticisms are just inaccurate altogether.  Furthermore, some of your demands and criticisms inherently contradict others.

Your ego is bruised, and since there isn't anyone specific to blame other than yourself (identity of the thief is unknown), you attack a protocol that cannot act on its own.  If you're not going to use BTC, at least provide us with the real reason, namely that you don't know how to use it and don't want to learn how.  That's a more respectable position in my book.  I do believe that BTC is too technical or inconvenient right now for many people, but if you operated a PayPal/btc business for over a year, then don't try to convince us that your 'laziness' is justified, expecially when BTC is still in BETA.

[countryfree]

Social networks can be a system of reputation management, but they don't belong to the blockchain. The dollar has been very successful without a reputation management system built-in. We shall see BTC for what it is: a currency. There will always be good and bad people, exchanging fiat or BTC, but neither fiat nor BTC has any responsibility in telling who's who.

Yes it does it is called the court system

The dollar and the court system are two different entities. There is no direct relation between them, and you can imagine either one living without the other one.

Now, if you really want a reputation management system inside BTC, you may be thrilled to learn one already exists. Just check this address:
http://blockchain.info/address/1JwSSubhmg6iPtRjtyqhUYYH7bZg3Lfy1T

But frankly, the owner of this wallet is stupid. It's so easy to create another wallet, and get a brand new clean ID. BTC always gives you a second chance, if you want to start again.

[sublime5447]

You keep going back to the wallet hack and I keep telling you that is not why I am getting out of supporting and using coins. There are many factors that is a small one.

Yes it is....

"Someone hacked my wallet.

September 27, 2013, 10:07:04 PM

Not that any body around here gives a fuck and I am sure that its my fucking fault so you can save you fucking comments.

This was it for me. I am gonna forget about fucking coins."


Seriously sublime, this needs to stop. How self-important can you be to expect something as big bitcoin to undergo radical change just because you're unwilling to make a change as simple as adding two-factor authentication. 12 year old who play WoW have 2FA on their Battle.net account, but you act like it's some moral offense that you should have to do the same.

Fine have it your way, I am sure your know better than me what my motivations are.

[sublime5447]

You keep going back to the wallet hack and I keep telling you that is not why I am getting out of supporting and using coins. There are many factors that is a small one.

Yes it is....

"Someone hacked my wallet.

September 27, 2013, 10:07:04 PM

Not that any body around here gives a fuck and I am sure that its my fucking fault so you can save you fucking comments.

This was it for me. I am gonna forget about fucking coins."


Seriously sublime, this needs to stop. How self-important can you be to expect something as big bitcoin to undergo radical change just because you're unwilling to make a change as simple as adding two-factor authentication. 12 year old who play WoW have 2FA on their Battle.net account, but you act like it's some moral offense that you should have to do the same.

This is basically what I was thinking, though I didn't respond as bluntly.

This whole thing started off with you (sublime) being robbed of <2 btc. Then, when the attention shifted toward your lack of care regarding the mismanagement of your funds, you got defensive.  So, you began finding anything negative that you could say about BTC regardless of whether it was relevant to the theft.  This is obvious -- how could someone who claims to lack technical knowledge know why some particular aspect of BTC is flawed and then assume that there must be a fix?  Hint: you can, but you're likely going to be wrong right from the get go.  Most of your criticisms are non-issues because there are already solutions to them, while other criticisms are just inaccurate altogether.  Furthermore, some of your demands and criticisms inherently contradict others.

Your ego is bruised, and since there isn't anyone specific to blame other than yourself (identity of the thief is unknown), you attack a protocol that cannot act on its own.  If you're not going to use BTC, at least provide us with the real reason, namely that you don't know how to use it and don't want to learn how.  That's a more respectable position in my book.  I do believe that BTC is too technical or inconvenient right now for many people, but if you operated a PayPal/btc business for over a year, then don't try to convince us that your 'laziness' is justified, expecially when BTC is still in BETA.

No it isnt I decided to abandoned bitcoin before that.

There is going to be a new monetary system, It wont be bitcoin. It will more than likely be SDR's. 

[sublime5447]

After you are done telling me why i am getting out of bitcoin. You can read these.


http://www.forbes.com/sites/nathanlewis/2013/04/18/bitcoin-combines-ph-d-level-computer-science-with-sub-kindergarten-level-monetary-understanding/ ---  bitcoin's monetary base is not adjustable


http://www.forbes.com/sites/steveforbes/2013/04/16/bitcoin-whatever-it-is-its-not-money/   Just like the dollar you cant define a bitcoin.


http://www.forbes.com/sites/louiswoodhill/2013/04/11/bitcoins-are-digital-collectibles-not-real-money/

[the joint]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/nathanlewis/2013/04/18/bitcoin-combines-ph-d-level-computer-science-with-sub-kindergarten-level-monetary-understanding/ ---  bitcoin's monetary base is not adjustable


http://www.forbes.com/sites/steveforbes/2013/04/16/bitcoin-whatever-it-is-its-not-money/   Just like the dollar you cant define a bitcoin.


http://www.forbes.com/sites/louiswoodhill/2013/04/11/bitcoins-are-digital-collectibles-not-real-money/

These articles are pretty bad.  

Edit: I take that back.  These articles are awful and argued horrendously.  False assumptions and invalid conclusions abound.

[sublime5447]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/nathanlewis/2013/04/18/bitcoin-combines-ph-d-level-computer-science-with-sub-kindergarten-level-monetary-understanding/ ---  bitcoin's monetary base is not adjustable


http://www.forbes.com/sites/steveforbes/2013/04/16/bitcoin-whatever-it-is-its-not-money/   Just like the dollar you cant define a bitcoin.


http://www.forbes.com/sites/louiswoodhill/2013/04/11/bitcoins-are-digital-collectibles-not-real-money/

These articles are pretty bad.  

Edit: I take that back.  These articles are awful and argued horrendously.  False assumptions and invalid conclusions abound.

Saying something is horrendous doesnt refute it.

Feel free to define a bitcoin to me i would love to hear it.

[dyingdreams]

I'm far from an expert on the subject, but from what I've read bitcoin is best described as a store of value. Either way, it doesn't really matter. Just because it's not considered money doesn't mean it doesn't have value. Gold isn't considered money, but it definitely has value.

[sublime5447]

I'm far from an expert on the subject, but from what I've read bitcoin is best described as a store of value. Either way, it doesn't really matter. Just because it's not considered money doesn't mean it doesn't have value. Gold isn't considered money, but it definitely has value.

Gold is considered money by a large portion of the world, just because helicoper Ben doesnt think is money that doesnt mean much.

I never said it doesn't have value just that it will never have mass appeal and can not replace the dollar. That is my motivation and the reason I am moving on.

It is still fair at buying drugs off the internet as long as you do it quick.

Boitcoin is an awful store of value.

Ron Paul to Ben asking to define a dollar--  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgXCBetCYVo