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Question: Start crowdfunding effort for decentralized stock exchange?
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Author Topic: If you are a US citizen you basically can go F yourself! BTCT, Bitfunder, Dwolla  (Read 16935 times)
gweedo
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October 09, 2013, 04:53:32 AM
 #61

Well, it is another interesting day to be an American and find out how much the Banks control your country!!!

Now Bitfunder has joined the fray and is kicking all US users off their site also!!! Cry

Please be advised that BitFunder is implementing the following rules and procedures:

As of October 8th, 2013, BitFunder will not accept new registrations from any United States persons or entities. All new registrants must supply the information required to obtain "Verified" status on their linked WeExchange account. BitFunder may, in its sole direction, decline to accept any new registrations.

As of October 8th, 2013, all current BitFunder users who are located in the United States or are determined to be United States persons or entities will not be able to enter into any new positions on the Bitfunder website, and, as of November 1, 2013, such users will also not be allowed to sell positions on the BitFunder website.

All current BitFunder users who are not United States persons or entities must supply the information required to obtain "Verified" status on their linked WeExchange account before November 1, 2013. Any such users who fail to provide the necessary information will not be able to enter into or sell positions on the BitFunder website as of November 1, 2013.


What next?  Banning even mining over here?  Just when I thought I was going to be able to make a little extra money.  I don't mind paying income taxes, it is everyone's duty to pay.  I am in the 39% tax bracket so I already know what the pain is like.  

Well to everyone else in the world, good luck!  It was nice being a member of the community, at least for a little while.  

You can move to the Cayman Island. No one says that you have to live in the USA, you can leave anytime.

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October 09, 2013, 05:23:03 AM
 #62

This is seriously fucked up. I'm so disgusted right now.

I suggest you take your disgust and your money and put it into funding bounties for something better. Many ideas are out there and only development is needed.

For now the Bitcoin stock market is dead.
This is seriously fucked up. I'm so disgusted right now.
Please notify your local political representative  Wink


It's not really about politics. It was a stupid idea to create centralized stock exchanges for a decentralized currency. There is a reason Bitcoin is decentralized, but somehow people thought stocks would be different? Did you forget that this could happen? And no, the US government isn't the only government which will crack down.

The smart property function can be built into the blockchain rendering all of this moot.
Contact politicians for what? So they can pass a law which was already passed? The SEC already has the crowdfunding law on the books and is taking their time to put it into effect.

So what law do you want people to vote for? The divide and conquer nationalism only helps the state.
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October 09, 2013, 07:23:37 AM
 #63

It's not really about politics. It was a stupid idea to create centralized stock exchanges for a decentralized currency. There is a reason Bitcoin is decentralized, but somehow people thought stocks would be different? Did you forget that this could happen? And no, the US government isn't the only government which will crack down.

The smart property function can be built into the blockchain rendering all of this moot.
Contact politicians for what? So they can pass a law which was already passed? The SEC already has the crowdfunding law on the books and is taking their time to put it into effect.

So what law do you want people to vote for? The divide and conquer nationalism only helps the state.

The shares on BTCT were prepared for a decentralization.
The companies listed had direct contact with the share holders.

A list of share holders could be exported etc...




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October 09, 2013, 10:39:23 AM
 #64

You can move to the Cayman Island. No one says that you have to live in the USA, you can leave anytime.

It actually takes quite a bit of funds to pick up and move, especially if children are involved!  There will be a period of approx. 3-4 months with no income until employment is found. 

Although some people can actually make a living at trading bitcoin stocks, going broke is rather easy!

On the upside, the next stock market will have to ban trading robots.  I was fighting one on Bitfunder recently maybe it will choke on the assets it is snapping up!  Robots require trading volume to make money and since Bitfunder will have very little volume....... Getting off my soapbox now.

Actually, since the SEC shutdowns are all about fiat taxes, wrapped in the disguise of national security, how does one collect and distribute taxes?  I was thinking a flat rate tax to be distributed equally among the nations recognized by the UN.  Small nations get a healthy influx of cash and larger nations get the same amount.  Taxes to be collected monthly based on starting balance ..........  Will have to work on this, tooo early for all the math. 


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October 09, 2013, 10:52:32 AM
 #65

You can move to the Cayman Island. No one says that you have to live in the USA, you can leave anytime.

It actually takes quite a bit of funds to pick up and move, especially if children are involved!  There will be a period of approx. 3-4 months with no income until employment is found. 

And not every country will accept you.

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October 09, 2013, 04:01:27 PM
 #66

You can move to the Cayman Island. No one says that you have to live in the USA, you can leave anytime.

It actually takes quite a bit of funds to pick up and move, especially if children are involved!  There will be a period of approx. 3-4 months with no income until employment is found. 

And not every country will accept you.

If you are applying for residents yeah most will accept you. Also this was a little tongue and check.

The point is that regulations are good for bitcoin when you are in the USA, and most people agree with that. It gives bitcoin legitimate uses that draw more and more people in, and ultimately raise the value of bitcoin.

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October 09, 2013, 04:11:06 PM
 #67

Was it "black friday" or something for online poker some years ago?
Do you think bitcoin will have its own black day in the US?  Lips sealed

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October 09, 2013, 04:26:52 PM
 #68

You can move to the Cayman Island. No one says that you have to live in the USA, you can leave anytime.

It actually takes quite a bit of funds to pick up and move, especially if children are involved!  There will be a period of approx. 3-4 months with no income until employment is found. 

And not every country will accept you.

If you are applying for residents yeah most will accept you. Also this was a little tongue and check.

The point is that regulations are good for bitcoin when you are in the USA, and most people agree with that. It gives bitcoin legitimate uses that draw more and more people in, and ultimately raise the value of bitcoin.

The point is that that is your opinion Smiley

Bitcoin does not need the US government to be legitimate. That is my opinion Wink

gweedo
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October 09, 2013, 04:45:36 PM
 #69

You can move to the Cayman Island. No one says that you have to live in the USA, you can leave anytime.

It actually takes quite a bit of funds to pick up and move, especially if children are involved!  There will be a period of approx. 3-4 months with no income until employment is found.  

And not every country will accept you.

If you are applying for residents yeah most will accept you. Also this was a little tongue and check.

The point is that regulations are good for bitcoin when you are in the USA, and most people agree with that. It gives bitcoin legitimate uses that draw more and more people in, and ultimately raise the value of bitcoin.

The point is that that is your opinion Smiley

Bitcoin does not need the US government to be legitimate. That is my opinion Wink

It isn't opinion it is a fact. I talk to people that control hundreds of millions of dollars and try to get them to invest, until we have that regulation they will not. That what we need more cash flow, it is economics. It took 4 yrs to get a couple VCs now we need more and more, that can behind us and pump cash into bitcoin businesses to bring these complex businesses to light. I know this isn't what people want to hear, but it is the truth. Regulations == legitimate == more cash flow == better businesses. Then people can't say well there no place to spend bitcoins or they have no real use. Regulations are overdue in this area and some will not welcome it, and some will, but also the great part is bitcoin has a fail safe, if regulations are too much you can choose to ignore it, it will hurt bitcoin in the long run but it is a failsafe.

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wachtwoord
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October 09, 2013, 04:58:19 PM
 #70

You can move to the Cayman Island. No one says that you have to live in the USA, you can leave anytime.

It actually takes quite a bit of funds to pick up and move, especially if children are involved!  There will be a period of approx. 3-4 months with no income until employment is found.  

And not every country will accept you.

If you are applying for residents yeah most will accept you. Also this was a little tongue and check.

The point is that regulations are good for bitcoin when you are in the USA, and most people agree with that. It gives bitcoin legitimate uses that draw more and more people in, and ultimately raise the value of bitcoin.

The point is that that is your opinion Smiley

Bitcoin does not need the US government to be legitimate. That is my opinion Wink

It isn't opinion it is a fact. I talk to people that control hundreds of millions of dollars and try to get them to invest, until we have that regulation they will not. That what we need more cash flow, it is economics. It took 4 yrs to get a couple VCs now we need more and more, that can behind us and pump cash into bitcoin businesses to bring these complex businesses to light. I know this isn't what people want to hear, but it is the truth. Regulations == legitimate == more cash flow == better businesses. Then people can't say well there no place to spend bitcoins or they have no real use. Regulations are overdue in this area and some will not welcome it, and some will, but also the great part is bitcoin has a fail safe, if regulations are too much you can choose to ignore it, it will hurt bitcoin in the long run but it is a failsafe.

No, regulations will make a certain group of people think it's legitimate. However, it's already legitimate.

gweedo
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October 09, 2013, 05:05:49 PM
 #71

You can move to the Cayman Island. No one says that you have to live in the USA, you can leave anytime.

It actually takes quite a bit of funds to pick up and move, especially if children are involved!  There will be a period of approx. 3-4 months with no income until employment is found. 

And not every country will accept you.

If you are applying for residents yeah most will accept you. Also this was a little tongue and check.

The point is that regulations are good for bitcoin when you are in the USA, and most people agree with that. It gives bitcoin legitimate uses that draw more and more people in, and ultimately raise the value of bitcoin.

The point is that that is your opinion Smiley

Bitcoin does not need the US government to be legitimate. That is my opinion Wink

It isn't opinion it is a fact. I talk to people that control hundreds of millions of dollars and try to get them to invest, until we have that regulation they will not. That what we need more cash flow, it is economics. It took 4 yrs to get a couple VCs now we need more and more, that can behind us and pump cash into bitcoin businesses to bring these complex businesses to light. I know this isn't what people want to hear, but it is the truth. Regulations == legitimate == more cash flow == better businesses. Then people can't say well there no place to spend bitcoins or they have no real use. Regulations are overdue in this area and some will not welcome it, and some will, but also the great part is bitcoin has a fail safe, if regulations are too much you can choose to ignore it, it will hurt bitcoin in the long run but it is a failsafe.

No, regulations will make a certain group of people think it's legitimate. However, it's already legitimate.

But those are not the people with money, so that group doesn't nothing for us, but instead use the power of bitcoin for less than ethical things, like hire hitmen.

Want to earn 2500 SATOSHIS per hour? Come Chat and Chill in https://goseemybits.com/lobby
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October 09, 2013, 05:27:56 PM
 #72


It's reasonable to want regulations -- and someone who can enforce them. 

What they're looking for is protection from malefactors.  If somebody breaks into your home and steals your television set, regulations about theft say that you can prosecute him, and the police will make a good faith effort to find him and get it back, and courts will try him, and there are known penalties with lots of precedent for their normalcy, and no, he does not get to keep your TV. 

They want there to be somebody who can take the role of police and courts and so on if somebody roots their computer and steals the bitcoins.   

If somebody scams a thousand investors for a million dollars each, the SEC will field the complaints, and investigate the business, and bring charges, and prosecute, and make a good faith effort to get as much of that money back as possible, and the courts will hear the arguments, and there is jail time waiting for the scammer. 

They want there to be somebody who can take the role of the SEC and so on if somebody scams them in a market denominated in BitCoin. 

If bitcoin is not subject to these things, or does not participate in them, then it will never be more than a dangerous and risky potential investment, and given the risks, it will never be worth developing into serious infrastructure.



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October 09, 2013, 05:34:58 PM
 #73

Look on the bright side, at least you can claim Capital Losses because of the US interfering and maybe get a refund this year  Tongue
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October 09, 2013, 05:39:50 PM
 #74

You can move to the Cayman Island. No one says that you have to live in the USA, you can leave anytime.

It actually takes quite a bit of funds to pick up and move, especially if children are involved!  There will be a period of approx. 3-4 months with no income until employment is found. 

And not every country will accept you.

If you are applying for residents yeah most will accept you. Also this was a little tongue and check.

The point is that regulations are good for bitcoin when you are in the USA, and most people agree with that. It gives bitcoin legitimate uses that draw more and more people in, and ultimately raise the value of bitcoin.

The point is that that is your opinion Smiley

Bitcoin does not need the US government to be legitimate. That is my opinion Wink

It isn't opinion it is a fact. I talk to people that control hundreds of millions of dollars and try to get them to invest, until we have that regulation they will not. That what we need more cash flow, it is economics. It took 4 yrs to get a couple VCs now we need more and more, that can behind us and pump cash into bitcoin businesses to bring these complex businesses to light. I know this isn't what people want to hear, but it is the truth. Regulations == legitimate == more cash flow == better businesses. Then people can't say well there no place to spend bitcoins or they have no real use. Regulations are overdue in this area and some will not welcome it, and some will, but also the great part is bitcoin has a fail safe, if regulations are too much you can choose to ignore it, it will hurt bitcoin in the long run but it is a failsafe.

No, regulations will make a certain group of people think it's legitimate. However, it's already legitimate.

But those are not the people with money, so that group doesn't nothing for us, but instead use the power of bitcoin for less than ethical things, like hire hitmen.

At least it's a form of self-regulation. If you try to blackmail a rich guy you get killed by a hitman. Nothing inherently unethical about it.


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October 09, 2013, 06:16:25 PM
 #75


It is a sad fact that many people rely on regulation as a measure of legitimacy. This is one of the biggest problems with the U.S.  political/economic system, and it the primary cause of the economic problems in the U.S. Simply accepting this situation as unavoidable (or worse, necessary) will lead to the eventual downfall of the U.S
Eventual? Hah.  It is already here.  Once the US decided to give up all manufacturing znd become a 'service' economy, we were and still are relegated to second-tier status and are really bordering on third-world status. 

People can argue that point all they want, you just needto look at the growth of slums and the lack of interest in maintaining the infrastructure.

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October 09, 2013, 06:19:37 PM
 #76

Look on the bright side, at least you can claim Capital Losses because of the US interfering and maybe get a refund this year  Tongue
I wish!  With the judge in Texas ruling BTC a commodity, there is no capital losses.  Merely income or lack thereof.  No downside for the IRS, only upside.

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October 09, 2013, 06:21:15 PM
 #77

You can move to the Cayman Island. No one says that you have to live in the USA, you can leave anytime.

It actually takes quite a bit of funds to pick up and move, especially if children are involved!  There will be a period of approx. 3-4 months with no income until employment is found.  

And not every country will accept you.

If you are applying for residents yeah most will accept you. Also this was a little tongue and check.

The point is that regulations are good for bitcoin when you are in the USA, and most people agree with that. It gives bitcoin legitimate uses that draw more and more people in, and ultimately raise the value of bitcoin.

The point is that that is your opinion Smiley

Bitcoin does not need the US government to be legitimate. That is my opinion Wink

It isn't opinion it is a fact. I talk to people that control hundreds of millions of dollars and try to get them to invest, until we have that regulation they will not. That what we need more cash flow, it is economics. It took 4 yrs to get a couple VCs now we need more and more, that can behind us and pump cash into bitcoin businesses to bring these complex businesses to light. I know this isn't what people want to hear, but it is the truth. Regulations == legitimate == more cash flow == better businesses. Then people can't say well there no place to spend bitcoins or they have no real use. Regulations are overdue in this area and some will not welcome it, and some will, but also the great part is bitcoin has a fail safe, if regulations are too much you can choose to ignore it, it will hurt bitcoin in the long run but it is a failsafe.

No, regulations will make a certain group of people think it's legitimate. However, it's already legitimate.

But those are not the people with money, so that group doesn't nothing for us, but instead use the power of bitcoin for less than ethical things, like hire hitmen.

At least it's a form of self-regulation. If you try to blackmail a rich guy you get killed by a hitman. Nothing inherently unethical about it.

So then start the crypto-mafia. You could make a lot of money by offering protection.

Plus if you think regulation is bad, then go ahead start another stock exchange.

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October 09, 2013, 06:26:17 PM
 #78

And what? Get prosecuted?  Wink

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October 09, 2013, 06:33:23 PM
 #79

And what? Get prosecuted?  Wink

But I thought you like the unregulated world of bitcoin Wink I am just saying regulations aren't bad, I don't see the big deal and I see more pros than cons.

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October 09, 2013, 06:59:10 PM
 #80

While I understand the desire to have decentralized everythings, particularly in the wake of recent developments, it's simply not the way of the world. The concept of centralization is bigger than finance, or bitcoin, or technology.

Forces condense over time and then are torn apart in a repeating cycle.

Centralization happens all on its own, and for good reason.
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