SOLVED: how to get BTC out of a Bitstamp account without verifying

[eldentyrell]

Edit 13-Oct-2013:

Apparently the people at Bitstamp aren't just thieves, they're incompetent too.  If you signed up for API access back when they were using account passwords for API authentication (i.e. before "API keys") you can still withdraw your BTC via the "old" API from an unverified account.  Not sure if this works for the new API too (never used it).  My account had an "enable old API" switch (turned on) so I don't know if newer accounts are offered this option, or if you can turn it back on once it's been turned off.

Zero balance, six confirms, account closed.  Howdaya like themapples?

~et

If this post helped you, consider leaving me positive 0-BTC feedback.

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This is unbelievable.  With no warning (unless you're "facebook friends" with them) Bitstamp is refusing to let customers withdraw BTC they've deposited.  They're even refusing requests to close accounts.

Bitstamp never emailed me about this policy (even though they've sent me dozens of emails in the past to confirm trades/withdrawals).

Now they've basically stolen my money and won't give it back unless I send enough high-resolution documentation to steal my identity to some dude in Slovenia.

I've offered to let them wire the funds to my US-based bank, which has full AML documentation for me on file and who will confirm that I am the signatory for the account.

I want to stop using bitstamp and get my coins back.  They're refusing to close my account.  Scam scam scam.

Apparently they've stolen from a whole lot of people now:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=307862.msg3305812#msg3305812
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=307862.msg3313417#msg3313417
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=306458.msg3307139#msg3307139
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=306458.msg3307596#msg3307596
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=306458.msg3307765#msg3307765

[1714810566]

1714810566

[greyhawk]

Now they've basically stolen my money and won't give it back unless I send enough high-resolution documentation to steal my identity to some dude in Slovenia.

Is this to be an empathy test? Capillary dilation of the so-called blush response? Fluctuation of the pupil. Involuntary dilation of the iris...

[eldentyrell]

Now they've basically stolen my money and won't give it back unless I send enough high-resolution documentation to steal my identity to some dude in Slovenia.

Is this to be an empathy test? Capillary dilation of the so-called blush response? Fluctuation of the pupil. Involuntary dilation of the iris...

We call it Voight-KampffGoxxed for short.

[Herp]

Now they've basically stolen my money and won't give it back unless I send enough high-resolution documentation to steal my identity to some dude in Slovenia.

Bitstamp announced few weeks ago they will only allow deposit/withdrawals for verified accounts only.

I guess dudes from US are totally reliable with customer information.

[eldentyrell]

Bitstamp announced few weeks ago they will only allow deposit/withdrawals for verified accounts only.

I have no such email from them.  Yet I have all sorts of emails from them about other far less-important stuff.

I guess dudes from US are totally reliable with customer information.

Some of them, and the bank where I keep my account is one such.  That's why I keep my account there, after all.

That and the fact that if it all goes sideways they can be sued in the country I live in.

[Sukrim]

MODIFICATION OF TERMS
Bitstamp reserves the right to change, add or remove portions of these Terms, at any time, in an exercise of its sole discretion. You will be notified of any changes in advance through your Account. Upon such notification, it is your responsibility to review the amended Terms. Your continued use of the Site following the posting of a notice of changes to the Terms signifies that you accept and agree to the changes, and that all subsequent transactions by you will be subject to the amended Terms.

Highlighting by me, see https://en.bitstamp.net/article/bitstamp-new-verification-requirements/ as well as the notification in your account.

If you fail to look into your account for weeks and then don't want to supply KYC info, just ask the "Gigamining" people how much it helps to complain.

[eldentyrell]

MODIFICATION OF TERMS
]You will be notified of any changes in advance through your Account.

Uh, yeah, so like I said, I was not notified.  Immediately upon being notified by the big green text saying you can no longer withdraw unless you send us identity-theft-enabling documents I ceased any "continued use" and asked to close my account, which they are now refusing to do.  They failed to uphold their own terms by notifying me in advance.  At all times I made sure my Account contained up-to-date contact information.

If you fail to look into your account for weeks

Actually my trading software supports their API and pings my account to check its balance a few times an hour and displays it (in a list of overall positions) in the corner of my screen.  No message was ever returned via the API regarding this.

That aside, what if I had gone on a three-week vacation?  I mean seriously, "you went on vacation for three weeks" just doesn't sound like a legitimate excuse to confiscate somebody's account balance, no matter how you spin it.  Three years?  Sure.  Three weeks?  No way.

[Herp]

I guess it's hard for them to close accounts and issue refunds due to legal issues.

Notifying customers by email would have been smart choice though.


I suspect there are plenty of Bitstamp accounts which can't be verified as aliases were supplied instead of real identities.

[eldentyrell]

I guess it's hard for them to close accounts and issue refunds due to legal issues.

I call absolute bullshit on that.  Whatever "legal issues" didn't prevent this eight days ago don't prevent it today.  No new AML laws were passed in Slovenia this week.  Besides, my offer to have my own bank provide AML cover eliminates this concern yet they still won't do it, so something more is at play here.

I think they just got greedy and saw a lot of account balances they knew were less than the value people assign to the risk of having their identity stolen.

I suspect there are plenty of Bitstamp accounts which can't be verified as aliases were supplied instead of real identities.

Ergo, massive theft from customers.

[Herp]

I guess it's hard for them to close accounts and issue refunds due to legal issues.

I call absolute bullshit on that.  Whatever "legal issues" didn't prevent this eight days ago don't prevent it today.  No new AML laws were passed in Slovenia this week.  Besides, my offer to have my own bank provide AML cover eliminates this concern yet they still won't do it, so something more is at play here.

I think they just got greedy and saw a lot of account balances they knew were less than the value people assign to the risk of having their identity stolen.

I suspect there are plenty of Bitstamp accounts which can't be verified as aliases were supplied instead of real identities.

Ergo, massive theft from customers.

I think most of the accounts that are now locked out, unable to withdraw and verify their account have fake identities behind them.

If identity behind your account is indeed real then just provide it and get it over with.

Their notification system was publicly announced in their terms of use as previous poster said and notification by email wasn't mentioned in their terms. Even though I think they ought to have done it, it wasn't a requirement. They will lose some customers over this, which could have been easily avoided and that's a shame.

[eldentyrell]

I think most of the accounts that are now locked out, unable to withdraw and verify their account have fake identities behind them.

No, mine is real, and they're welcome to verify it by calling up my bank, checking the signatory on the account, and wiring the funds.

If identity behind your account is indeed real then just provide it and get it over with.

No thank you, I'd rather not send digital copies of exactly what anybody would need to steal my identity.  Nor do I like being blackmailed for this sort of thing.

Their notification system was publicly announced in their terms of use as previous poster said

No, the terms say nothing whatsoever about a "notification system".  My account was kept up to date with the information they needed in order to notify me.  Their terms indicate they have a duty to notify me and they did not do that.

[TheButterZone]

A Bitcoin company in breach of contract?! Inconceivable!

[greyhawk]

Laff, you said "company" 

No really, this is again an example that should remind people to take a closer look at who you're dealing with.

Look at bitstamps supposed adress and google it : 5 Jupiter House Calleva Park, Aldermaston

Not only is this again a mail forwarder, but it is one of THE most infamous RL adresses on the net due to the absurdly high amount of scams being run though it.

Remember, there is no reason for a legitimate company to hide behind mail forwarders, virtual offices, proxy registrants etc. In contrast to the real economy however 99% of bitcoin "companies" hide behind exactly that type of curtain. And those that do invariably turn out to be either scams or to be run by hacks.

Google your adresses, people, it'll save you a lot of grief.

[Sukrim]

I guess it's hard for them to close accounts and issue refunds due to legal issues.

I call absolute bullshit on that.  Whatever "legal issues" didn't prevent this eight days ago don't prevent it today.  No new AML laws were passed in Slovenia this week.

In case you missed it, this change was announced a month before on their page and on various other channels (unfortunately for you not via mail, though they do state that their changes will be communicated ONLY via your account page, not via the mail address on your account).
I just looked up ToS changes from Paypal and Facebook that I received and they usually also just give a 1 month grace period, so I don't see anything outrageously different here.

Also in case you haven't noticed: DPR from SilkRoad and a few other high value sellers from there have been arrested. It is likely that they also have some links to Bitstamp, so while there were no new laws, there was certainly a change in the external environment that will make them more paranoid about anything Bitcoin.

Bitstamp itself is from Slovenia and likely only registered a UK Ltd. because it is cheaper there and regulations in the financial sector are even more generous than in Slovenia. Also it might be easier to get an answer from british officials regarding regulations of shady/very new financial constructs, as they are used to see that daily compared to Slovenian regulators.

[eldentyrell]

Look at bitstamps supposed adress and google it : 5 Jupiter House Calleva Park, Aldermaston

Not only is this again a mail forwarder, but it is one of THE most infamous RL adresses on the net due to the absurdly high amount of scams being run though it.

Yet another reason I am not sending these jokers scans of my passport.

[greyhawk]

Bitstamp itself is from Slovenia and likely only registered a UK Ltd. because it is cheaper there and regulations in the financial sector are even more generous than in Slovenia. Also it might be easier to get an answer from british officials regarding regulations of shady/very new financial constructs, as they are used to see that daily compared to Slovenian regulators.

No, it is because a huge amount of scams is run by a slavic group through that very adress very successfully already

[eldentyrell]

they do state that their changes will be communicated ONLY via your account page

No, they do not state this.  Now you're making shit up.

[Sukrim]

they do state that their changes will be communicated ONLY via your account page

No, they do not state this.  Now you're making shit up.

From the ToS:

You will be notified of any changes in advance through your Account.

Not via the mail address in your account, not via the API (WTF, srsly?!), not via Facebook or via smoke signals.

If you don't trust them, why did you deposit money with them in the first place?

[eldentyrell]

they do state that their changes will be communicated ONLY via your account page

No, they do not state this.  Now you're making shit up.

From the ToS:

You will be notified of any changes in advance through your Account.

Like I said, you were making shit up.  Where's the "ONLY"?

My Account contains the up-to-date information (email address, postal address, and phone number) through which they can notify me.  They did not do that.

Absolutely nothing about goggle-plus, twatter, or fakebook in there.  And my Account does not contain information for these services, so they can't contact me on tweeter "through my Account".

If you don't trust them, why did you deposit money with them in the first place?

There are different levels of trust.  We're not talking about thousands of BTC here.  Not even hundreds.  But enough to make them scammers.

[Sukrim]

Discussion here is useless anyways - submit KYC info to them, contact their support or write it off... it is not the first time that BTC customers are asked for "doxx or go home" nor will it be the last. If you keep a balance on a service but do not care about their ToS, you are up for trouble, just as you found out right now.

"Only" comes from the only mention on where you will be notified: "through your account", not "through the means of reaching you entered on your account". They even specifically write in their ToS that they consider e-mails as an insecure medium (which is true).

Why should Bitstamp trust your bank, that for all they know you could have submitted fake documents to a decade ago? If someone from MI5 asks them about YOUR account, they need to show YOUR data, not say "well, he has a bank in the US, maybe ask them...".