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Author Topic: Bye bye bitcoin  (Read 8806 times)
derpinheimer
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October 14, 2013, 03:30:51 PM
 #61

nuh uh! another one bites the dust. Goodbye to the threadstarter.
Can you tell why exactly you are so frustrated?
I felt bad years ago when some traders scammed me because of irreversible transactions but since i just adjusted my behaviour to what happened to me I'm still fine with bitcoin. You can't spend bitcoins you don't have unless you borrow them which is imo one of its biggest features. have faith in mother coin its > fiat already now!
What is it exactly that frustrate me? Well, I would more than most people like to see the appearance of a decentralized cryptocoin becoming a real competitor to fiat money. But bitcoins hyperdeflationary nature do not allow it to happen. The problem is that bitcoin has a centralized ownership. You can pick 10-20 persons out there that is holding abt 50% of all the bitcoins that exist. And even if you count the 1000 persons that holds 80%, the problem is the same. What if Satoshi had premined every 21 million coin, and asked people to buy the coins from him? On the economic scale, that would not have been very different, except the flaw would be more evident.
(and know that I do not hate speculators or lottery winners - I just believe a true cryptocoin must be founded in a different domain)


Distribution of bitcoins:


This is very true, but its hard to say if this will be what ultimately causes bitcoin's demise.

I still think it has a good short and medium term future, but is doomed to fail at some point.
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October 14, 2013, 03:37:07 PM
 #62

The system Satoshi came up with to distribute bitcoins is brilliant. It offers incentive for their creation, a way to equitably distribute them around the world, and a model that offers a  disincentive for anyone trying to buy up the market. If Satoshi had pre-mined the coins and was selling them, they would have no value at all.  
No one knows what is comming, but there is no reason to think that bitcoin can't be $10,000/BTC.

The gospel according to Satoshi - https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf

Free bitcoin in ICELAND - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1610684
Chalkbot
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October 14, 2013, 05:00:29 PM
 #63

Distribution of bitcoins:


This is also not a very valid argument, as the situation is the same with USD. 1% of Americans hold 40% of the wealth.

http://www.upworthy.com/9-out-of-10-americans-are-completely-wrong-about-this-mind-blowing-fact-2?g=3

^While I don't necessarily sympathize with the message in the video, it does a good job presenting these facts.


It sounds to me like Bitcoin motivated you to learn more about bitcoin (which is good), but you should take the time to learn more about money in general. So far, all of your qualms apply equally to the money you exchanged your bitcoins for, if not more. The people giving you a hard time in this thread are trying to say that, but the words come out all funny when you're anonymous on the internet.
notme
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October 14, 2013, 05:56:43 PM
 #64

Well, there are two sides. People now bet on 17 October 2013 will be in another side. If dollars fails, then gold, silver, crude oil, bitcoin will raise real quick.

I have seen the raising. If fails on 17 October 2013, then more people may like to buy gold, crude oil to save themselves.

Additionally, bitcoin never be able for money laundering as it can be unveiled when there is something broken.

By what mechanism would failing to raise the debt ceiling cause the dollar to tank?  I could see a default being deflationary, but which orifice are you pulling your inflationary theory from?

https://www.bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
While no idea is perfect, some ideas are useful.
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yayayo
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October 14, 2013, 06:58:21 PM
 #65

Sound money always attracts wealth.

There is nothing wrong with other people being more rich than myself.

Most of the bitcoin rich are early adopters. Without them believing in bitcoin in the first place bitcoin would not have been born or would have ceased to exist shortly after birth. The beneficial potential of bitcoin for humanity as a whole far outweighs the abstract moral hazard of a few bitcoin superrich.


ya.ya.yo!
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October 14, 2013, 07:01:14 PM
 #66

Well, there are two sides. People now bet on 17 October 2013 will be in another side. If dollars fails, then gold, silver, crude oil, bitcoin will raise real quick.

I have seen the raising. If fails on 17 October 2013, then more people may like to buy gold, crude oil to save themselves.

Additionally, bitcoin never be able for money laundering as it can be unveiled when there is something broken.

By what mechanism would failing to raise the debt ceiling cause the dollar to tank?  I could see a default being deflationary, but which orifice are you pulling your inflationary theory from?
I too fail to understand this thought. If the US defaults, the whole world will go into turmoil and deflationary collapse as people SELL EVERYTHING.
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October 14, 2013, 07:50:27 PM
 #67

Distribution of bitcoins:


This is also not a very valid argument, as the situation is the same with USD. 1% of Americans hold 40% of the wealth.

http://www.upworthy.com/9-out-of-10-americans-are-completely-wrong-about-this-mind-blowing-fact-2?g=3

^While I don't necessarily sympathize with the message in the video, it does a good job presenting these facts.


It sounds to me like Bitcoin motivated you to learn more about bitcoin (which is good), but you should take the time to learn more about money in general. So far, all of your qualms apply equally to the money you exchanged your bitcoins for, if not more. The people giving you a hard time in this thread are trying to say that, but the words come out all funny when you're anonymous on the internet.
Yeah, Ive seen that video earlier. I also seen Bill Stills video on the money masters and Money as Debt. I am not completly blank when it comes to monetary systems. However, itvseems to me that many people on this forum are, knowledge limited to belive that limited supply is thevsalvation. It is not. I am trying to explain people that it is bitcoins kill switch. Those who understand that is also the same people who have personal interest in extending bitcoins life, before its unavoidable demise.

............It's never late to buy BTC for $1.........
........Services-backed cryptocurrency of $1 000 000 000 000 market .........
..............
...........PRE ICO            Sep.27 – Oct.04............
       ............ICO            Oct.10 – Nov.07............
...................ANN thread      Bounty....................

Walsoraj
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October 14, 2013, 07:59:29 PM
 #68

Bronn, in Game of Thrones:

"Bronn: Aye, we talked about it. Have you ever been in a city under siege? Maybe this part's not in your books. See, it's not the fighting that kills most people; it's the starving. Food's worth more than gold. Noble ladies sell their diamonds for a sack of potatoes."

In apocalyptic scenarios, food and other basic necessities are far more valuable than anything else that you might consider as a currency.
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October 14, 2013, 08:04:06 PM
 #69

I'm (hopefully quite clearly) a huge advocate of bitcoin, so keep that into account. I believe one is extremely foolish to have a zero balance in any currency which has the potential at being the most valuable one in existence. I personally, while most of my wealth in in BTC, try to deversify as much as it makes sense to (this is different for everyone) into other currencies, such as Swiss, Japanese, Canadian, Norwegian, and even the Euro (which like the dollar is "too big to fail").

“First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.”  -- Mahatma Gandhi

Average time between signing on to bitcointalk: Two weeks. Please don't expect responses any faster than that!
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October 14, 2013, 08:25:27 PM
 #70

You could be right, after all a year ago BTC were only worth $12, so you obviously are not selling out at the bottom.  However, I have to think that BTC might be a good store of value even if it fails as a medium of exchange, and lots of things, gold, diamonds, slabbed rare coins, are good stores of value even if they are rubbish as mediums of exchange.

Good Luck!
wingding
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October 14, 2013, 09:02:50 PM
 #71

You could be right, after all a year ago BTC were only worth $12, so you obviously are not selling out at the bottom.  However, I have to think that BTC might be a good store of value even if it fails as a medium of exchange, and lots of things, gold, diamonds, slabbed rare coins, are good stores of value even if they are rubbish as mediums of exchange.

Good Luck!
Thanks. Yes, I agree with everything you say. However, I would like to see a crypto challenging the fiats, but I doubt btc ever will.

............It's never late to buy BTC for $1.........
........Services-backed cryptocurrency of $1 000 000 000 000 market .........
..............
...........PRE ICO            Sep.27 – Oct.04............
       ............ICO            Oct.10 – Nov.07............
...................ANN thread      Bounty....................

manfred
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October 14, 2013, 09:21:39 PM
 #72

You could be right, after all a year ago BTC were only worth $12, so you obviously are not selling out at the bottom.  However, I have to think that BTC might be a good store of value even if it fails as a medium of exchange, and lots of things, gold, diamonds, slabbed rare coins, are good stores of value even if they are rubbish as mediums of exchange.

Good Luck!
Thanks. Yes, I agree with everything you say. However, I would like to see a crypto challenging the fiats, but I doubt btc ever will.
Digital currency's will (do) challenge fiat but not bitcoin alone.
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October 14, 2013, 10:27:43 PM
 #73

My last bitcoin finally sold! It's a relief. Bitcoin is doomed to fail. It has a price, but it has no value. It has made a few people rich, but most people shall loose. A currency? It is only speculation and nothing more. Bitcoin has not and will not become a real medium for exchange. What remains for bitcoin now is the large holders to sell out their coins, but in a tempo that does not crash the 'market'. It will be interesting to see how bitcoin's decline plays out. Good luck, either buying or selling, but if you do the former, you need it most.


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thezerg
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October 15, 2013, 12:16:42 AM
 #74

My last bitcoin finally sold! It's a relief. Bitcoin is doomed to fail. It has a price, but it has no value. It has made a few people rich, but most people shall loose. A currency? It is only speculation and nothing more. Bitcoin has not and will not become a real medium for exchange. What remains for bitcoin now is the large holders to sell out their coins, but in a tempo that does not crash the 'market'. It will be interesting to see how bitcoin's decline plays out. Good luck, either buying or selling, but if you do the former, you need it most.

Its funny how people have this cathartic need to confess.  wingding do you know anything about perfect money and how bitcoin was engineered to be such or was it just like day trading ABC stock vs. CBA to you?

Bitcoin or a similar crypto-currency will become a de-facto international exchange currency in the next 5-10 years due to its low to no transaction fee, distance is irrelevant behavior.

China is coming... and when that happens it will drive another run of adoption in western countries with intl B2B trade.

hlynur
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October 15, 2013, 12:57:57 AM
 #75

My last bitcoin finally sold! It's a relief. Bitcoin is doomed to fail. It has a price, but it has no value. It has made a few people rich, but most people shall loose. A currency? It is only speculation and nothing more. Bitcoin has not and will not become a real medium for exchange. What remains for bitcoin now is the large holders to sell out their coins, but in a tempo that does not crash the 'market'. It will be interesting to see how bitcoin's decline plays out. Good luck, either buying or selling, but if you do the former, you need it most.


how long did you even hold coins?
registered March 15 2013  Huh...
you really need much more patience, buy some coins (only as much as you can afford to loose) , forget about your wallet and look at it again in a year.

rome wasn't build in a day!

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October 15, 2013, 01:07:03 AM
 #76

Bitcoin or a similar crypto-currency will become a de-facto international exchange currency in the next 5-10 years due to its low to no transaction fee, distance is irrelevant behavior.

This, except the time frame which might be longer.

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October 15, 2013, 01:45:57 AM
 #77

The problem is that bitcoin has a centralized ownership. You can pick 10-20 persons out there that is holding abt 50% of all the bitcoins that exist. And even if you count the 1000 persons that holds 80%, the problem is the same.

You could create a new cryptocurrency and give 10 coins to every person on the planet and in a few years the distribution would look very similar. It is not the job of currency to evenly distribute itself and I would argue that it is not even desirable.

A lot of people make the mistake of thinking an even distribution is a fair distribution. They often even use the terms as if they are synonyms.

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October 15, 2013, 02:02:02 AM
 #78

who would sell their last bitcoin when there is the possability that a single bitcoin could be worth tens of thousands of dollars some day. you could atleast hold onto one on the off chance, just so you arnt kicking yourself in the ass someday.

Rep Thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=381041
If one can not confer upon another a right which he does not himself first possess, by what means does the state derive the right to engage in behaviors from which the public is prohibited?
wingding
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October 15, 2013, 07:01:54 AM
 #79

The problem is that bitcoin has a centralized ownership. You can pick 10-20 persons out there that is holding abt 50% of all the bitcoins that exist. And even if you count the 1000 persons that holds 80%, the problem is the same.

You could create a new cryptocurrency and give 10 coins to every person on the planet and in a few years the distribution would look very similar. It is not the job of currency to evenly distribute itself and I would argue that it is not even desirable.

But is it the job of currency to be pre-distributed unevenly? Should that not be the job of capitalism?

............It's never late to buy BTC for $1.........
........Services-backed cryptocurrency of $1 000 000 000 000 market .........
..............
...........PRE ICO            Sep.27 – Oct.04............
       ............ICO            Oct.10 – Nov.07............
...................ANN thread      Bounty....................

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October 15, 2013, 09:11:32 AM
 #80

There are those that are good at generating wealth and those that only know how to accumulate debt. That will be the same regardless of the money that is used.

With fiat currency it is easy to control to the benefit of the elite at the top of the banking pyramid, which they do by issuing endless new debt under the guise of money. Sound money like gold, silver or bitcoins is not easy to control in those ways, and so is much more fair.

Have you considered that the vast majority of the world don't only any bitcoins at all. If you only have 1 bitcoin, you are also an early adopter and may also be considered bitcoin rich one day.
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