Bitcoin Lost due to KNC's Late Shipping

[The Avenger]

So KNC's "All current paid orders will be shipped no later than October 15th" commitment has been and gone.

No apology, no updates, nothing. It's incredibly disrespectful and unacceptable treatment of customers, as far as I'm concerned. We KNC customers are the angel investors who created and paid for KNC to exist as a company. And this is how KNC pay us back for our money, loyalty and trust.

I guesstimate about half their orders have shipped by 15th. That means it could easily take exactly the same amount of time - another 15 days - to ship the rest of their units, royally screwing their customers who they pledged would be hashing no later than October 15th.

Here is what a 550GH/s (sic) jupiter would earn you at current difficulty. In other words, let's see how much bitcoin I/we KNC customers, who were lied to about shipping dates, are losing:

Losses:
15th October +3 hrs: 0.18BTC (~26.24 USD)
15th October +12 hrs: 0.73BTC (~104.68 USD)
15th October +14 hrs: 0.85BTC (~122.12 USD)
-
Woo! Massive difficulty change - we are losing less per day now, right? Wahey!
16th October (post diff change) +5 hrs: 0.22BTC (~31.76 USD)
16th October +10 hrs: 0.43BTC (~63.52 USD)
-
17th October +12 hrs: 0.52BTC (~76.23 USD)
17th October +24 hrs: 1.03BTC (~152.45 USD)
-
18th October +12 hrs: 0.52BTC (~76.23 USD)
18th October +24 hrs: 1.03BTC (~152.45 USD)
-
19th October +12 hrs: 0.52BTC (~76.23 USD)
19th October +24 hrs: 1.03BTC (~152.45 USD)
-
20th October +12 hrs: 0.52BTC (~76.23 USD)
20th October +24 hrs: 1.03BTC (~152.45 USD)
-
21st October +12 hrs: 0.52BTC (~76.23 USD)
21st October +24 hrs: 1.03BTC (~152.45 USD)
-
22nd October +12 hrs: 0.52BTC (~76.23 USD)
22nd October +24 hrs: 1.03BTC (~152.45 USD)
-
23rd October +12 hrs: 0.52BTC (~76.23 USD)
23rd October +24 hrs: 1.03BTC (~152.45 USD)
-
24th October +12 hrs: 0.52BTC (~76.23 USD)
24th October +24 hrs: 1.03BTC (~152.45 USD)
-
25th October +12 hrs: 0.52BTC (~76.23 USD)

Overall: 10BTC (~1481.52 USD)

[Bicknellski]

So KNC's "All current paid orders will be shipped no later than October 15th" commitment has been and gone.

No apology, no updates, nothing. It's incredibly disrespectful and unacceptable treatment of customers, as far as I'm concerned. We KNC customers are the angel investors who created and paid for KNC to exist as a company. And this is how KNC pay us back for our money, loyalty and trust.

I guesstimate about half their orders have shipped by 15th. That means it could easily take exactly the same amount of time - another 15 days - to ship the rest of their units, royally screwing their customers who they pledged would be hashing no later than October 15th.

Here is what a 550GH/s (sic) jupiter would earn you at current difficulty. In other words, let's see how much bitcoin I/we KNC customers, who were lied to about shipping dates, are losing:

Losses:
15th October +3 hrs: 0.18BTC (~26.24 USD)

What no widget BTC lost ticker? Make one so we can apply it to every company that has failed to deliver on time and we can add them all together and get a BTC lost due to supply chain. I am guessing MILLIONS have been lost.

[Zeek_W]

So KNC's "All current paid orders will be shipped no later than October 15th" commitment has been and gone.

No apology, no updates, nothing. It's incredibly disrespectful and unacceptable treatment of customers, as far as I'm concerned. We KNC customers are the angel investors who created and paid for KNC to exist as a company. And this is how KNC pay us back for our money, loyalty and trust.

I guesstimate about half their orders have shipped by 15th. That means it could easily take exactly the same amount of time - another 15 days - to ship the rest of their units, royally screwing their customers who they pledged would be hashing no later than October 15th.

Here is what a 550GH/s (sic) jupiter would earn you at current difficulty. In other words, let's see how much bitcoin I/we KNC customers, who were lied to about shipping dates, are losing:

Losses:
15th October +3 hrs: 0.18BTC (~26.24 USD)

What no widget BTC lost ticker? Make one so we can apply it to every company that has failed to deliver on time and we can add them all together and get a BTC lost due to supply chain. I am guessing MILLIONS have been lost.

Not a bad idea actually!

[Syke]

And here comes a whopper of a 40% difficulty increase. Now is a very bad time to be late!

[volosator]

You can't count chickens that haven't hatched, right?
I'm sure KNC is on the right track! I have an order 25XX, 2 days before I get it. UPS shows last location @ Germany

[Bogart]

Not to excuse KnC, but imagine trying to calculate the BTC "lost" due to Avalon's late shipping, or :ahem: BFL's...

[jermwerty]

Not to excuse KnC, but imagine trying to calculate the BTC "lost" due to Avalon's late shipping, or :ahem: BFL's...

+1

But alas this is what I like about this forum.  Cheeky.

[papaminer]

Not to excuse KnC, but imagine trying to calculate the BTC "lost" due to Avalon's late shipping, or :ahem: BFL's...

Don't forget about all the BTC that avalon/bfl earned in mining from "CUSTOMERS MINERS"... due to the so called "STRESS TEST"

[Xian01]

And here comes a whopper of a 40% difficulty increase. Now is a very bad time to be late!

 Man, it's almost not worth it to be a small-time miner any more. Good lord...

 I thought I would be happy with having 1TH/s by end of October, but with these difficulty increases ... <Insert "Nope Badger" Meme>

 Will probably call it quits by January at this rate   Not worth the upgrade cycle any more, IMO.

[Bicknellski]

And here comes a whopper of a 40% difficulty increase. Now is a very bad time to be late!

 Man, it's almost not worth it to be a small-time miner any more. Good lord...

 I thought I would be happy with having 1TH/s by end of October, but with these difficulty increases ... <Insert "Nope Badger" Meme>

 Will probably call it quits by January at this rate   Not worth the upgrade cycle any more, IMO.

This bubble will burst and I wonder what sort of "crash" will follow?

[The Avenger]

And here comes a whopper of a 40% difficulty increase. Now is a very bad time to be late!

You can say that again!

You can say that again!

[The Avenger]

You can't count chickens that haven't hatched, right?
I'm sure KNC is on the right track! I have an order 25XX, 2 days before I get it. UPS shows last location @ Germany

KNC is on track for you. Remember October delivery orders go to about 7500. Many of us are seeing nothing for a long.

And still no updates to their customers on 16th October about missing their own "set in stone" 15th deadline. They are undoing the good work they did up to September. Once they started the lies - when they announced they were refusing refunds (when they originally said refunds would be available right up until your units shipped) - it's all been downhill since. Nothing but lies and contempt for their customers, treating us like consumer schmucks with x-box pre-orders, rather than businesses with multi-thousand dollar orders.

[Puppet]

This bubble will burst and I wonder what sort of "crash" will follow?

Easy.. mining hardware prices will crash. Nothing is going to stop difficulty from exploding, all these asics will be produced and will join the network one way or the other. The only variable is how much people will pay for them.

[frankenmint]

This bubble will burst and I wonder what sort of "crash" will follow?

Easy.. mining hardware prices will crash. Nothing is going to stop difficulty from exploding, all these asics will be produced and will join the network one way or the other. The only variable is how much people will pay for them.

that's when I come in and buy up your hashpower for pennies on the "jacksons"  Looking to spend 500 dollars for 100 TH by December 2014

[bbxx]

knc like avalons

batch 1 profitable (1-2 day orders)

batch 2 maybe (after 15.10)

batch 3 total loss (nov)

[bcp19]

Not to excuse KnC, but imagine trying to calculate the BTC "lost" due to Avalon's late shipping, or :ahem: BFL's...

The funny part about this is that a lot of people ended up making MORE BTC by BFL's late shipping.  If BFL had shipped on time and at the quantities stated last October, difficulty would have spiked faster than it has lately and you'd have had a year of little to no earnings compared to what you did get.  I calculated that an FPGA Single mining from Oct 1 to the date the first actual single shipped and then that single mining until today would have made about 12% more BTC compared to a rough guess at BFL's orderbook and a 60Gh single delivered Oct 1 would have made to date.

[donch]

Not to excuse KnC, but imagine trying to calculate the BTC "lost" due to Avalon's late shipping, or :ahem: BFL's...

The funny part about this is that a lot of people ended up making MORE BTC by BFL's late shipping.  If BFL had shipped on time and at the quantities stated last October, difficulty would have spiked faster than it has lately and you'd have had a year of little to no earnings compared to what you did get.  I calculated that an FPGA Single mining from Oct 1 to the date the first actual single shipped and then that single mining until today would have made about 12% more BTC compared to a rough guess at BFL's orderbook and a 60Gh single delivered Oct 1 would have made to date.

Most people with BFL orders would have preferred not to have made any money a year ago, rather than wait a year to discover that unfortunate truth.

[Bicknellski]

Not to excuse KnC, but imagine trying to calculate the BTC "lost" due to Avalon's late shipping, or :ahem: BFL's...

The funny part about this is that a lot of people ended up making MORE BTC by BFL's late shipping.  If BFL had shipped on time and at the quantities stated last October, difficulty would have spiked faster than it has lately and you'd have had a year of little to no earnings compared to what you did get.  I calculated that an FPGA Single mining from Oct 1 to the date the first actual single shipped and then that single mining until today would have made about 12% more BTC compared to a rough guess at BFL's orderbook and a 60Gh single delivered Oct 1 would have made to date.

Most people with BFL orders would have preferred not to have made any money a year ago, rather than wait a year to discover that unfortunate truth.

What that BFL is a scam?

[donch]

Not to excuse KnC, but imagine trying to calculate the BTC "lost" due to Avalon's late shipping, or :ahem: BFL's...

The funny part about this is that a lot of people ended up making MORE BTC by BFL's late shipping.  If BFL had shipped on time and at the quantities stated last October, difficulty would have spiked faster than it has lately and you'd have had a year of little to no earnings compared to what you did get.  I calculated that an FPGA Single mining from Oct 1 to the date the first actual single shipped and then that single mining until today would have made about 12% more BTC compared to a rough guess at BFL's orderbook and a 60Gh single delivered Oct 1 would have made to date.

Most people with BFL orders would have preferred not to have made any money a year ago, rather than wait a year to discover that unfortunate truth.

What that BFL is a scam?

Well, sort of. BFL, along with every other ASIC manufacturer has sold a volume of equipment that cannot recoup costs given the fixed block reward amount at any realistic BTC exchange rate. I would have preferred to have known that last year, rather than this year, as a BFL customer.

[btc_uzr]

How to calculate compensation?

Honest question considering the following:
*another unknown competitor appears ex. on Oct. 1st with cheap devices on stock and shipped on day of order.
*btc crashes (so btc compensation would have a psychological value only)
*error in chip design causing insolvency of KnCMiner
*they would have shipped devices in time but with 400GH/s and power consumption of 1.6W per GH/s (as specified & in time, so no compensation => but still worse than what we get now)
*sell your order through ebay and you make you profit for sure
*losses are based on forecast of hw competitors are going to ship I assume, what's about they are late or fail ?

btw:
I guess Hashfast starts shipping late due to no chip until now (shipping is supposed to start Oct.20th),
and cointerra starts shipping very late since their tape-out was announced for first week of Oct. and there are no infos so far about current state of progress.


Additionally, as you know pressure causes counterpressure.
I'm not quite sure how smart it is to put this pressure on them, especially NOW while they are still facing other stuff more important to handle.
How about waiting for last unit being shipped and give them a change to make us happy on their own ?

Enforced compensation is worse for sure, than one given with the good intention of fixing cracks in customer relationships, no?
I could imagine that they find somehow a way to make it a win-win situation for everyone as they would profit from it as well.
As you know they are aware things did not work out and a lot of customers are currently not happy with them.

Image it is your company and you have to deal with missed deadlines, calls for compensation, issues with production, angry customers and other stuff at the same time....things may turn out like they did...



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(...)
What that BFL is a scam?

Thanks dude, now I have to clean up the coffee on my table&floor which I had in my mouth when reading this