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Author Topic: Cryptonight / Cryptonote - On GPUs and ASICs and profitability  (Read 1485 times)
jdoi
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March 15, 2018, 10:39:14 AM
Last edit: May 04, 2018, 02:11:29 AM by jdoi
Merited by Searing (1), Prelude (1), Truthchanter (1), vlad230 (1)
 #1

There are a few new ASICs released for mining the coins based on cryptonight/cryptonote protocol. I'm listing the coins that can be mined with GPUs (or conversely ASICs), with some profit as we go forward.There are some coins that claim and promote asic resistance, so there will be forks and updates and this thread could be a good place to track the mining choices. On the other side of the table, the difficulty for some coins will rise exponentially making it difficult to profit with GPUs. Also, while there is discrepancy in profitability of a small GPU rig vs a large one on cryptonight coins, it certainly is not on the scale of a few ASICs or a farm, so focus is on possibility of any profitability in future. Please feel free to correct and update as necessary.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|         Coin          |       GPU     |      ASIC resistant    |      Forked      |          Algorithm       |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|    Electroneum     .      Yes        .         Yes [1]             .  Upcoming[4]  |              CN                |    
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|       Bitcoal          .      Yes        .                                .                       |              CN                |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|         Dero           .      Yes        .          Yes                 .                       |              CN                |          
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|     Leviarcoin       .      Yes        .                                .                       |              CN                |          
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|       Bytecoin       .      Yes        .           No                 .                       |               CN                |          
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|        Karbo           .      Yes       .                                .                       |              CN                |          
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|    Dinastycoin       .      Yes       .                                .                       |              CN                |          
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|     BitcoiNote        .      Yes       .                                .                       |              CN                |          
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|      CrepCoin        .      Yes        .                                .                       |              CN                |          
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|         B2B            .      Yes        .                                .                       |              CN                |          
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|         Elya            .      Yes        .                                .                       |              CN                |          
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|      Qwerycoin      .      Yes        .                                .                       |              CN                |          
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|      Ultranote        .      Yes        .          Maybe             .                       |              CN                |      
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|        EDollar         .      Yes        .          Yes                 .                       |              CN                |      
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|         Aeon           .      Yes        .          Maybe             .                       |           CN-lite             |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|         Graft           .     Yes         .          Yes                 .      Yes            |            CN-v7             |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|        Stellite         .      Yes        .          Yes                 .      Yes            |             CN-v7            |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|     Intensecoin     .      Yes        .          Yes                 .       Yes            |             CN-v7            |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|        Masari         .      Yes        .          Yes                 .       Yes            |             CN-v7            |          
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|        Monero        .      Yes        .          Yes                  .      Yes           |             CN-v7             |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|        Fonero         .      Yes        .          Yes                 .       Yes           |             CN-v7             |        
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|         BBS .          .      Yes        .          Yes                 .       Yes           |             CN-v7             |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|      ItaloCoin        .      Yes        .          Yes                 .       Yes           |             CN-v7             |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|         Lines          .      Yes         .          Yes                 .       Yes           |             CN-v7             |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|        Haven         .      Yes         .          Yes                 .       Yes           |           CN-Heavy          |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|      Sumokoin       .     Yes         .          Yes [3]           .       Yes           |           CN-Heavy          |          
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|        Loki .          .       Yes        .          Yes                 .       Yes           |           CN-Heavy          |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|        Ombre        .       Yes        .          Yes                 .       Yes           |           CN-Heavy          |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|        Solace        .       Yes        .          Yes                 .       Yes           |           CN-Heavy          |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|         IPBC           .      Yes        .          Yes                 .       Yes           |           CN-IPBC           |      
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|      Turtlecoin       .      Yes        .          Yes                 .       Yes          |           CN-lite-v1         |            
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------    
|         Trition         .      Yes        .          Yes                 .       Yes          |           CN-lite-v1         |            
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|         Iridium        .      Yes        .          Yes                 .       Yes          |           CN-lite-v1         |            
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|          Alloy          .      Yes        .          Yes                  .       Yes         |          CN-Alloy            |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

* Updated: List as of May 03, 2018, will add coins as I find correct information (or sources from comments)

** The column "Coin" lists the Cryptonote coins

*** The column "GPU" is to determine if it is still profitable to mine with GPUs

**** The column "ASIC resistant" is to confirm the stance of the coin devs/team on ASIC resistance. If the team are actively working and updating, the column should say "Yes".
If the coin promotes ASIC resistance, but there is no update yet the column should be "Maybe", else "No"

***** I will update as much frequently as I can, after confirming the sources and will add them here

****** Disclaimer: This is neither an advertisement for the ASICs nor the coins per say, just information that can be useful for GPU miners. Please do not consider this as a definitive guide or advice on which coins to mine, but a source of information. Do confirm the facts and if possible help keep the list updated

Sources for ASIC Resistance:
Monero - https://getmonero.org/2018/02/11/PoW-change-and-key-reuse.html
Stellite -  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2813261.0
Graft - https://www.graft.network/2018/03/14/graft-anti-asic-fork/
Turtlecoin - https://github.com/turtlecoin/meta/issues/74
Dero - https://www.reddit.com/r/DeroProject/comments/84kufy/deros_official_position_on_asics/
Electroneum - https://www.reddit.com/r/Electroneum/comments/84nvzi/richard_ells_confirms_proasic_stance/         https://www.reddit.com/r/Electroneum/comments/84nlik/etn_will_follow_monero_and_implement_anti_asic/
            [1] Although they have claimed the Anti-ASIC stance, they mentioned will follow footsteps of monero, so no definite timeline yet.
            [4] Update: Seems there will be a hard fork on May 30
IPBC - https://www.reddit.com/r/ipbcoin/comments/83v9mn/asic_resistance/
            https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2856278.860
Ultranote(XUN) - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2357930.0
Edollar(EDL) - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2643196.0
Aeon - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=641696.0
Alloy(XAO) - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3002653.msg32475110#msg32475110
Intensecoin - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2090765.msg32364315#msg32364315
                  [2] The response of the team is wait and see how it affects, so I'm not positive they will do anything before the miners start mining.
Masari - https://www.reddit.com/r/masari/comments/84o1bc/development_thaers_comments_on_masari_following/
Sumokoin - https://www.reddit.com/r/sumokoin/comments/83s0we/will_sumokoin_fork_to_kick_off_the_baikalminer/
                 [3] From the thread seems like they will change if it affects the coin,
                       for now they it's wait and see how things go approach.
                 Update(Mar 22): Seems like they are testing out the fork:
                             https://twitter.com/sumokoin/status/976222145603883009
ItaloCoin: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3122277.0
Lines: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3162385.0
Bytecoin: https://bytecoin.org/blog/the-asic-statement-clarification-from-the-bytecoin-team


Sources on fork:
Monero - https://github.com/monero-project/monero/pull/3253
                        https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/82w91m/monero_network_upgrade_at_block_153950028th_of/
IPBC - https://www.reddit.com/r/ipbcoin/comments/8cms2s/ipbc_has_now_forked_at_block_54900_all_you_need/
Fonero - https://github.com/fonero-project/fonero/releases
Turtlecoin - https://github.com/turtlecoin/turtlecoin/releases
Sumokoin - https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/89vvmn/after_being_attacked_by_the_asic_past_few_days/
Electroneum - https://www.reddit.com/r/Electroneum/comments/8chvjx/when_antiasic_fork/
Graft - https://www.graft.network/2018/04/17/graft-network-node-update-1-1-2-block-64445/

Ref: There are a few threads on bitcointalk for specific miners, and specs about them on Baikal and Bitmain websites


Algorithm:
CN : CryptoNight
CN-v7 : CryptoNightV7 or CryptoNight-Variant1
CN-lite : CryptoNight-Lite
CN-IPBC : CryptoNight-lite variant (Cryptonight-IPBC)
CN-Heavy : CryptoNight-Heavy
CN-lite-v1: CryptoNight-lite Variant 1
CN-Alloy : CryptoNight-Alloy


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March 15, 2018, 10:45:33 AM
 #2

Graft too

https://www.graft.network/blog/

GRAFT team shares the same concerns raised by Cryptonote/Cryptonight community associated with creating a special hardware (ASIC) for Cryptonight mining. We realize that enabling ASIC (Application Specific Integrated Circuit) at this point may introduce a risk to stability, decentralization, and even very existence of GRAFT blockchain. After thorough review we decided to support the anti-ASIC movement and add an ASIC-resistant code in the next fork. We will follow up with more details about the implementation and timelines soon. Thank you for your support, stay tuned!

Host your ASICs in Siberia for $0.13/KW all inclusive. Contact me for information.
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March 15, 2018, 10:52:35 AM
 #3

Graft too

https://www.graft.network/blog/

GRAFT team shares the same concerns raised by Cryptonote/Cryptonight community associated with creating a special hardware (ASIC) for Cryptonight mining. We realize that enabling ASIC (Application Specific Integrated Circuit) at this point may introduce a risk to stability, decentralization, and even very existence of GRAFT blockchain. After thorough review we decided to support the anti-ASIC movement and add an ASIC-resistant code in the next fork. We will follow up with more details about the implementation and timelines soon. Thank you for your support, stay tuned!

Thanks, updated the list!
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March 15, 2018, 01:38:16 PM
 #4

Also TurtleCoin:
https://github.com/turtlecoin/meta/issues/74
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March 15, 2018, 01:43:55 PM
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Nice well made post, good initiative.  Cool
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March 15, 2018, 02:17:38 PM
 #6


Thanks, will update. I should add a column to confirm that the coin has been hard forked.

Nice well made post, good initiative.  Cool
Thx
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March 16, 2018, 12:03:08 PM
 #7

Also IPBC:
https://www.reddit.com/r/ipbcoin/comments/83v9mn/asic_resistance/
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2856278.860
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March 16, 2018, 12:19:50 PM
 #8


Thx, updated!
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March 16, 2018, 01:19:27 PM
 #9

Nice research! Merited! Smiley

It would be nice if you could maintain this thread for a while and let everybody know which coin will be forked to be ASIC resistant.

My opinion is that whatever coins will not be ASIC resistant will fail and it's not worth investing in them.
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March 16, 2018, 06:32:20 PM
 #10

Nice research! Merited! Smiley

It would be nice if you could maintain this thread for a while and let everybody know which coin will be forked to be ASIC resistant.

My opinion is that whatever coins will not be ASIC resistant will fail and it's not worth investing in them.

Thanks! I will try to keep in pace with the changes over the months. My worry is the fork is coming sooner (later this month in case of monero afaik) than the ASICs (e.g. Bitmain in May) and they might be able to account for the forks - maybe not easily, but would be possible for the ASIC giant like Bitmain.
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March 16, 2018, 10:03:31 PM
 #11

They can change to fix their ASIC - but it takes MONTHS once they have access to the new algorithm - redesign the chip, validate, do a tapeout, test, then *if* the tapeout chips are right order production to go into the QUE when space comes open.

I can see Bitmain trying to do this perhaps ONCE, I doubt they'll try after the first time due to the COST.

 

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March 17, 2018, 01:13:46 AM
 #12

They can change to fix their ASIC - but it takes MONTHS once they have access to the new algorithm - redesign the chip, validate, do a tapeout, test, then *if* the tapeout chips are right order production to go into the QUE when space comes open.

I can see Bitmain trying to do this perhaps ONCE, I doubt they'll try after the first time due to the COST.

 

Makes sense.
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March 19, 2018, 08:00:55 AM
 #13

They can change to fix their ASIC - but it takes MONTHS once they have access to the new algorithm - redesign the chip, validate, do a tapeout, test, then *if* the tapeout chips are right order production to go into the QUE when space comes open.

I can see Bitmain trying to do this perhaps ONCE, I doubt they'll try after the first time due to the COST.

 

Makes sense.

Especially now that the Monero Team has said that the algo will change every six months, byebye ASICs !
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March 20, 2018, 09:03:19 PM
 #14

Wow, so none of the CN coins have confirmed that they will stay ASIC mineable? Might be a bad time to buy an ASIC then. Tongue
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March 20, 2018, 09:25:59 PM
 #15

According to SUMOKOIN telegram , they have decided to fork .   
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March 23, 2018, 03:02:25 AM
 #16

Wow, so none of the CN coins have confirmed that they will stay ASIC mineable? Might be a bad time to buy an ASIC then. Tongue

Although I'm not saying buy ASICs, I'd like to point out most of the coins though have decided to fork have no definite time (unlike monero) or some might have decided to wait and see. There are few, new CN coins with less market worth - so ASIC owners might suddenly target all those till they decide to fork (until all new CN coins move to updating their algorithms - auto or manual). Since all of them decide to move to smaller coins, their difficulty and profitability will drop. But the time between the ASIC owners get their machine and the fork is unknown. (For eg the Baikal miners should be seen soon, and most of the coins are (hopefully) working on their fork but not before people get their ASIC) So although it seems like initial owners might make some money, but overall I think I'd not go for CN ASIC.
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March 23, 2018, 03:04:16 AM
 #17

According to SUMOKOIN telegram , they have decided to fork .   

Thanks, I've added in the twitter link that says so, if you have other sources please let me know
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March 23, 2018, 03:57:21 PM
 #18

Be ready for "Monero Classic" cause you know it's gonna happen.

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March 23, 2018, 05:10:25 PM
 #19

Be ready for "Monero Classic" cause you know it's gonna happen.

I'm not well conversant with Ethereum and Ethereum Classic (apart from they got hacked due to flaw and decided to hard fork, but am unsure why the old coin was required to be still in circulation), but why would you think there would be "Monero Classic". Wouldn't all demand be for Monero - and who would be responsible for Classic version, which if I'm not wrong would not be v7 or basically current version open to Asics?
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March 23, 2018, 05:27:07 PM
 #20

Be ready for "Monero Classic" cause you know it's gonna happen.

I'm not well conversant with Ethereum and Ethereum Classic (apart from they got hacked due to flaw and decided to hard fork, but am unsure why the old coin was required to be still in circulation), but why would you think there would be "Monero Classic". Wouldn't all demand be for Monero - and who would be responsible for Classic version, which if I'm not wrong would not be v7 or basically current version open to Asics?

Why wouldn't there be? It's not about the tech. It's quite simple really ... in matters such as these there will always be a conflict of opposed ideas or attitudes or goals. A difference of opinion.

Let me also add...If/when Monero forks to a new algorithm, if it is indeed a profitable coin, ASICS will be made. This is inevitable. Then what...? Another fork?

Time to get realistic.

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