Beware of Mt. Gox - can't get Bitcoin out now without photo ID!

[bt2084]

DO NOT USE MT GOX --

I recently opened a new account at Mt. Gox, did two simple trades: sold 1.7 bitcoins for USD and then bought BTC back the next day with USD, at a small loss.  (My mistake in judging the market mood after the U.S. government approved debt ceiling raising.) 

Anyway, I went to move my BTC out of Mt. Gox back to an off site wallet.  Nope.  They won't let me.

I just emailed back and forth several times and the Mt. Gox home page has changed during the converversation.

It used to read that all FIAT withdrawals require id verification but now it shows:
"Attention Users: All withdrawals and deposits require account verification."

I suspect they are not solvent and have introduced these measures only to slow down withdrawals so that they can hold onto other people's assets.

DO NOT USE MT GOX --

[tagbond]

They or may not be solvent, but they have to obey certain KYC and AML regulations. Here in the Philippines the regulations for setting up as an Electronic Money Issuer requires asking for ID information including a government photo ID. It's just a fact these days that if you want to switch between Fiat and Crypto through a third party then you will have to give this kind of info.

[MAbtc]

Bitstamp implemented this as well on September 30th. I'm not sure when it happened on Gox -- I don't trade there -- but I wonder if there was notice beforehand. I was notified adequately, IMO, by Bitstamp long before they implemented the verification requirement for withdrawing bitcoins.

[tvbcof]

IMHO, it's a completely shitty business practice to allow people to fund an account without releasing high quality identity docs then turn around and demand them for withdrawal of the same funds.

By the letter of the law it may be legal, but it is absolutely hostage taking in the scheme of things.

I've mentioned several times, but I personally value my identity doc kit at tens of thousands USD.  This because it will cost me that in time, hassle, and money if it is exploited.  Even if a company is on the level, it is very common for hackers or insiders to steal data, and fairly common for a company to not even know about it.  Indeed, Mt. Gox themselves have has such issues in the past.

Just because something is orders of magnitude more valuable to the victim than it is to the thief does not mean that it won't be stolen.  Thieves will cut up a $20,000 piece of equipment and sell it for a few hundred in scrap value.  The mathematics make sense to the thief so it happens a lot.

If Bitstamp, Mt. Gox, or anybody else is going to hold customer value for ransom and feel that they have no choice but to do so for legal reasons, they should give a reasonable warning (e.g., NOT just a Facebook post) so that customers who value their identity papers can make adjustments.  And they damn sure should not be taking in funds that they cannot allow to be withdrawn.  That is simply fraud in my opinion.

I scanned Mt. Gox's FAQ and related documentation fairly carefully before choosing to do business with them.  While it was some time ago, they never were very clear on requirements for BTC inputs and outflows.  Bitstamp was also a bit ambiguous when I looked at them (much more recently) but I only skimmed since I could see the writing on the wall and did not seriously consider patronizing them.

[TheButterZone]

Please screenshot (with URL in address bar) where it says "Attention Users: All withdrawals and deposits require account verification." I can't find that, I'm not verified or trusted, and on my Withdraw Funds tab, it says

BTC : You can still withdraw up to 100.00000000 BTC provided you have enough on your account (your limit is 100.00000000 BTC per 24 hours )
USD : You can still withdraw up to $1,000.00000 provided you have enough on your account (your limit is $1,000.00000 per 24 hours and $10,000.00000 per 30 days)

[MAbtc]

Please screenshot (with URL in address bar) where it says "Attention Users: All withdrawals and deposits require account verification." I can't find that, I'm not verified or trusted, and on my Withdraw Funds tab, it says

BTC : You can still withdraw up to 100.00000000 BTC provided you have enough on your account (your limit is 100.00000000 BTC per 24 hours )
USD : You can still withdraw up to $1,000.00000 provided you have enough on your account (your limit is $1,000.00000 per 24 hours and $10,000.00000 per 30 days)

Interesting. Still doesn't affect me since I don't trade on Gox, but can anyone confirm?

IMHO, it's a completely shitty business practice to allow people to fund an account without releasing high quality identity docs then turn around and demand them for withdrawal of the same funds.

Completely agree. I think it's shady as hell. It screams of an after-the-fact CYA mentality and is completely unappreciated. Still... so it goes.

[tagbond]

All very interesting..will be setting up an exchange later this week, so always good to see what people want before they start using it. Basically transparency and clear guidelines..

[tvbcof]

All very interesting..will be setting up an exchange later this week, so always good to see what people want before they start using it. Basically transparency and clear guidelines..

Just a few suggestions:

Just tell people the fucking truth.  It's totally easy to understand that Bitcoin exchanges are being hassled by regulator and the established financial institutions and what-not.  I would have a lot more sympathy and support for Mt. Gox if they didn't jerk me off with the BFL-style 'several weeks' bullshit.

Also, it should not take a rocket scientist to figure out that if you tell only your 'facebook friends' that a policy change is going to force people to send an identity theft kit or lose access to their funded accounts, it's going to piss people off.  Don't pull shit like that.  It is despicable business practice, and anyone who notices it will remember it for the duration.