For all miners, Asics are a dirty game against Cryptos - CN asic is a proof

[rdluffy]

Guys, it's very strange how every Asic company achieved at THE SAME TIME to build a Cryptonight Asic

What are the odds? 3 or 4 companies at the same time???

It's obvious, more than obvious that they build, mined a lot, increase the hashrate and now when most CN coins will fork to make Asics useless, they will sell quickly to people who are not well informed
This is not a fair game

Asics are destroying the decentralization and now they are think we miners are stupid to buy these doorsteps

We have to say no to Asics, and support coins that are against Asics. We are proud to say Cryptos are decentralized and we can control our coins, but if we support this kind of thing we are no different than bankers, government etc

Lets do something, or cpu, gpu, small miners will really die this year

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[Agozyen]

Guys, it's very strange how every Asic company achieved at THE SAME TIME to build a Cryptonight Asic

What are the odds? 3 or 4 companies at the same time???

It's obvious, more than obvious that they build, mined a lot, increase the hashrate and now when most CN coins will fork to make Asics useless, they will sell quickly to people who are not well informed
This is not a fair game

Asics are destroying the decentralization and now they are think we miners are stupid to buy these doorsteps

We have to say no to Asics, and support coins that are against Asics. We are proud to say Cryptos are decentralized and we can control our coins, but if we support this kind of thing we are no different than bankers, government etc

Lets do something, or cpu, gpu, small miners will really die this year

I think more and more people will start to pay attention to things like hashrate going forward.  This is grade A douchebaggery.

[thesavoyard]

Only POS is immune to ASICs and resistant to centralization. Wieners out for user processed transactions.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXimQjTZQvE

[Tidsdilatation]

Yes i agree. Something has to be done about these ASIC money hungry centralized rats. This type of behavior is the exact thing crypto was created to stop. Its a god damn shame. Ofcourse its not a coinsident that 4 big companies start selling the same new ASIC at the same time.

[smoolae]

This is really a dirty game for both the GPU/CPU miners and not well-informed customers, who are gonna lose a lot of money buying CN ASICs.
ASICs are ruining it for all of us

[NetopyrMan]

nicehash kills everything too .....

[shibob]

I think so, for example of XMR, as I remember we have 2 period which the hashrate climb started: in November as Vega (the best Monero miners) got widespread, and the 2nd hashrate surge in February, but it doesnt make sense because Vega supply dried up very quickly. Maybe the Asics guys had started their very first batch during this time. Bitmain ever sold GPU miners only in CN, but it seems like they stop it quick.

[rdluffy]

nicehash kills everything too .....

But I think Asics are more dangerous to the whole crypto enviroment

[spinx]

THIS is market capitalization gentlemens, all over again. Play the game or die trying

[Metroid]

Only POS is immune to ASICs and resistant to centralization. Wieners out for user processed transactions.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXimQjTZQvE

gpu pow and then pos is good like eth, if pos since beginning then it means --> centralized for people with lots of money, cause any rewards go for those people.

[dhouse]

i'd love to see tons of forks that change the hashing algorithms

[fanatic26]

It is pure ignorance to blame everything on ASICs.


1. ASICS do not lead to any more centralization than anything else. Why do you think we have a GPU shortage? Massive farms running GPU rigs, including mine.

2. All of these companies started developing altcoin ASICs after the market cap for them went crazy. Its not like you just create these things overnight.

3. If a company spends millions designing a product, just because one sector of the target audience doesnt want them, does that mean the shelve the entire thing? Manufacturers have no way of knowing ahead of time how the market will react. They build a product, put it out, and what happens happens. They didnt design these specifically to screw gpu miners or whatever stupid crap you guys think. Its up to the buyer to decide if they think a unit will be profitable. It is not the miner manufacturers duty to explain the entire mining ecosystem to a customer. Hell Bitmain even puts a disclaimer on their site BEFORE YOU BUY THE MINER. If people ignore the warnings and the historic trends they deserve to lose their money. Bitmain knows the ASIC will change the market for the algo in question, which is why they price different batches lower and lower, since the early adopter profitability just isnt there.

4. Realize that this is an ever changing industry, other wise it will stagnate. The problem is you guys all got into this when the profits were way overblown and now you are crying because you cant make a thousand dollars a month off of a single rig. So based on your lack of understanding as far as how the industry functions as well as the basics of economics, you blame the manufacturers.

[ThugB33]

It is pure ignorance to blame everything on ASICs.


1. ASICS do not lead to any more centralization than anything else. Why do you think we have a GPU shortage? Massive farms running GPU rigs, including mine.

2. All of these companies started developing altcoin ASICs after the market cap for them went crazy. Its not like you just create these things overnight.

3. If a company spends millions designing a product, just because one sector of the target audience doesnt want them, does that mean the shelve the entire thing? Manufacturers have no way of knowing ahead of time how the market will react. They build a product, put it out, and what happens happens. They didnt design these specifically to screw gpu miners or whatever stupid crap you guys think. Its up to the buyer to decide if they think a unit will be profitable. It is not the miner manufacturers duty to explain the entire mining ecosystem to a customer. Hell Bitmain even puts a disclaimer on their site BEFORE YOU BUY THE MINER. If people ignore the warnings and the historic trends they deserve to lose their money. Bitmain knows the ASIC will change the market for the algo in question, which is why they price different batches lower and lower, since the early adopter profitability just isnt there.

4. Realize that this is an ever changing industry, other wise it will stagnate. The problem is you guys all got into this when the profits were way overblown and now you are crying because you cant make a thousand dollars a month off of a single rig. So based on your lack of understanding as far as how the industry functions as well as the basics of economics, you blame the manufacturers.

I mostly don't blame ASIC's but mostly the BTC-Core team. Does ASIC manufactures report the batch sizes? Never.. they just flood... flood flood flood... and lead customers into a business trap. Yes, burn that electricity just to hit ROI in many years. Just where we're supposed to move green we are moving into that industrial dark era again. Remember in the gold mining era the gold diggers dons't make huge profits, it's the companies who are selling the shovels  

[hummer113]

Satoshi once asked all of us not to switch mining from cpu to video cards, because it is bad to affect the basic idea of decentralization, but because of greed no one listened to it.

[Metroid]

Satoshi once asked all of us not to switch mining from cpu to video cards, because it is bad to affect the basic idea of decentralization, but because of greed no one listened to it.

I do not see anything wrong with gpus to be used as mining, like I said, like cpus, gpus can be bought anywhere.

1. ASICS do not lead to any more centralization than anything else. Why do you think we have a GPU shortage? Massive farms running GPU rigs, including mine.

Like cpu anybody can buy a gpu and that cant be said for the asics. So with asics the levels is never an equal playing field. I'm against gpu farms but gpus come from nvidia and amd and concerning business practices, i would trust 1000000x more on amd and nvidia than bitmain or baikal or any chinese asics manufacture.

[rdluffy]

It is pure ignorance to blame everything on ASICs.


1. ASICS do not lead to any more centralization than anything else. Why do you think we have a GPU shortage? Massive farms running GPU rigs, including mine.

2. All of these companies started developing altcoin ASICs after the market cap for them went crazy. Its not like you just create these things overnight.

3. If a company spends millions designing a product, just because one sector of the target audience doesnt want them, does that mean the shelve the entire thing? Manufacturers have no way of knowing ahead of time how the market will react. They build a product, put it out, and what happens happens. They didnt design these specifically to screw gpu miners or whatever stupid crap you guys think. Its up to the buyer to decide if they think a unit will be profitable. It is not the miner manufacturers duty to explain the entire mining ecosystem to a customer. Hell Bitmain even puts a disclaimer on their site BEFORE YOU BUY THE MINER. If people ignore the warnings and the historic trends they deserve to lose their money. Bitmain knows the ASIC will change the market for the algo in question, which is why they price different batches lower and lower, since the early adopter profitability just isnt there.

4. Realize that this is an ever changing industry, other wise it will stagnate. The problem is you guys all got into this when the profits were way overblown and now you are crying because you cant make a thousand dollars a month off of a single rig. So based on your lack of understanding as far as how the industry functions as well as the basics of economics, you blame the manufacturers.

So based on your lack of understanding

Hey, we are talking about cryptos, DECENTRALIZATION...
If you consider Cryptos equal to any other industry, you are just part of the problem that we are trying to change

[shellyfinest]

It is pure ignorance to blame everything on ASICs.


1. ASICS do not lead to any more centralization than anything else. Why do you think we have a GPU shortage? Massive farms running GPU rigs, including mine.

2. All of these companies started developing altcoin ASICs after the market cap for them went crazy. Its not like you just create these things overnight.

3. If a company spends millions designing a product, just because one sector of the target audience doesnt want them, does that mean the shelve the entire thing? Manufacturers have no way of knowing ahead of time how the market will react. They build a product, put it out, and what happens happens. They didnt design these specifically to screw gpu miners or whatever stupid crap you guys think. Its up to the buyer to decide if they think a unit will be profitable. It is not the miner manufacturers duty to explain the entire mining ecosystem to a customer. Hell Bitmain even puts a disclaimer on their site BEFORE YOU BUY THE MINER. If people ignore the warnings and the historic trends they deserve to lose their money. Bitmain knows the ASIC will change the market for the algo in question, which is why they price different batches lower and lower, since the early adopter profitability just isnt there.

4. Realize that this is an ever changing industry, other wise it will stagnate. The problem is you guys all got into this when the profits were way overblown and now you are crying because you cant make a thousand dollars a month off of a single rig. So based on your lack of understanding as far as how the industry functions as well as the basics of economics, you blame the manufacturers.

The trends for miners to put out ASICs around the same time truly is strange as the OP points out...
But, I agree with fanatic 26 on some points, mainly the argument that CPU's and GPU mining are decentralized and ASIC's destroy this centralization is misleading or not quite accurate...

If the idea/assumption is that more CPU/GPU miners will spread out, and everyone can join mining, and each have a small piece of the mining pie, and with relatively low cost to start ... this leaves out the facts that -

1) There's still a knowledge barrier to entry (knowledge of computers and mining software setup , mining hardware setup)... It can be learned but harder to learn than setting up an ASIC and plugging it in

2) There's still a cost barrier of entry (yes ASICs cost more , but GPU's aren't exactly cheap and many people in the world can't afford CPU / GPU hardware to mine with)

3) As fanatic 26 comment points out, there's nothing to prevent a CPU/GPU miner with money from buying and scaling up to a very large scale hardware mining production with CPU/GPU hardware

[Metroid]

......

Most countries have 100% or more tax import, if you buy on theses countries a gpu, tax is low cause price of gpu is low and that is related to how import tax is charged, now asics are expensive, so most of the world can't buy asics cause if for you as you must live in tax-free country then you will pay $12k now think about $24k or more for them. For gpu's don't work like that, maximum they will pay more is 30% tax. So people around the world can still compete if 30%, if 100% no. Also those countries might never give you the hardware, gpus they don't care, is a computer hardware, they will never take it from you. GPU's are used for gaming, bitcoin asics only for money. I have seen in many cases customs of many countries charged 500% to 1000% if they found out is a bitcoin altcoin asic and in many cases they took from you without any notice and there is nothing you can do.

So my point is, if you knew this and yet sided with asics then it means you do not believe in decentralization cause like many you are a greedy bastard and want centralization cause you use that to your advantage.

[fanatic26]

......

Most countries have 100% or more tax import, if you buy on theses countries a gpu, tax is low cause price of gpu is low and that is related to how import tax is charged, now asics are expensive, so most of the world can't buy asics cause if for you as you must live in tax-free country then you will pay $12k now think about $24k or more for them. For gpu's don't work like that, maximum they will pay more is 30% tax. So people around the world can still compete if 30%, if 100% no. Also those countries might never give you the hardware, gpus they don't care, is a computer hardware, they will never take it from you. GPU's are used for gaming, bitcoin asics only for money. I have seen in many cases customs of many countries charged 500% to 1000% if they found out is a bitcoin altcoin asic and in many cases they took from you without any notice and there is nothing you can do.

So my point is, if you knew this and yet sided with asics then it means you do not believe in decentralization cause like many you are a greedy bastard and want centralization cause you use that to your advantage.

Right now you can buy ASICs considerably cheaper than a GPU rig so what the hell are you talking about?

So lets say I have to pay $1500 for an asic, then pay a 100% tax im sitting at $3000 for the ASIC. If I want to build a 6 card 1080 Ti rig im looking at $7000 before taxes at current prices. So how is it that ASICs are a barrier based on cost when they are cheaper, more reliable, easier to use, etc....?

The centralization argument still holds no water because there are MASSIVE GPU farms out there just like for ASICs. I mean I manage over 10,000 GPUs in my facility alone.

[DevelopmentBank]

Guys, it's very strange how every Asic company achieved at THE SAME TIME to build a Cryptonight Asic

It is pretty strange that they all released their CN ASICs all at the same time. My theory is they based it on AMD Vega's technology (because that GPU was a pretty badass CN miner).

Anyway, its all over and done for now. The onnly we can do is support the coins as they fork into more ASIC resistant versions of their algos. Boycotting ASIC miners isn't really feasible as there will always be stubborn people who will buy these ASICs even at inflated prices. Sad reality of life.