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Author Topic: Signature Campaigns taxes  (Read 14268 times)
BTCeminjas
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March 21, 2018, 05:46:28 PM
 #61

Now first of all I live in spain and I'm wondering if someone has ever paid taxes with money acquired from signature campaigns here. I made a decent amount of money a year ago because campaigns were giving 0.03-0.04 per week. I wouldn't really know how to pay taxes if I need to, would this count like a job and how exactly would someone prove they got their bitcoins from signature campaign , seems quite difficult.

Edit

A few options are presented:

1. Don't say anything, it's virtually impossible for any tax agency to find out what you have. However eventually they might be able to and you could face serious problems.

2. Mark it as freelance work and a tax rate will be applied to it, up to 50% (reported by an user) It seems that they wont ask for much information or proof as long as you are declaring it intentionally.

3. Simply spend bitcoins or any other cryptocurrency that you earned without ever converting it to fiat because cryptocurrencies are usually not taxable in most European countries.




I am not aware about the rules regarding cryprocurrency in your country. I think as long as no one is bothering you about taxes, you shouldn't worry. Here in our country, we arw not required to declare it, even if the government knows that some are earning through crypto. Maybe if your govwrnment has a regulation regarding it, you should pay taxes.
I think you're mistaken. The fact that the government pretends that it does not notice bitcoin does not mean that you do not have to pay taxes. In all countries, people have to pay taxes on their income. Perhaps your income is very small and the Bank does not submit information about the receipt of Fiat in your account? But at any moment it may turn out to be a trap for you.
But this case depends upon on which country you are, not all country you are necessary to pay that tax. Just like what happens here in our country our government did not force us to pay taxes but if we claim our fiat from bitcoin through remittance that's the time we will able to pay tax. Because we have here our country a blockchain base wallet direct to cash your bitcoin from wallet to bank either remittance you can claim with it.
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March 21, 2018, 09:09:55 PM
 #62

It all depends on the currency in which you keep your money.

This isn't true. If you earn $100 in crypto then you will need to add $100 in income to your earnings.


That is why you shouldn't look at crypto in terms of your local currency and start spending it. You got 1 crypto coin, you held 1 crypto coin, you spent one crypto coin. No fiat = no taxes. Smiley
If you want fiat, you should be aware that the real owners of fiat, the ones that you're leasing the money from* may end up going after you and requesting usage fees.


*yes, leasing, because fiat money don't belong to you if you get it onto your back account. The direct holder is the bank and the one above it is the government. If any of these 2 decide you're not worthy the money's gone in an instant.
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March 22, 2018, 05:06:50 AM
 #63

We don't know what your country saying about this since we do have different regulations, just like here in our country where in we are not yet obliged to pay tax with our earnings in bitcoin  because there is no such law regulating on it so we are still free to do what we want in our earnings
yes, I really agree with you, until now I have not found the use of bitcoin to pay taxes, but even if it is in need to pay taxes, I do not mind, I will pay it from my income, but I please, scameer must be deleted, so that bitcoin users much more comfortable again.
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March 22, 2018, 05:30:07 AM
 #64

Now first of all I live in spain and I'm wondering if someone has ever paid taxes with money acquired from signature campaigns here. I made a decent amount of money a year ago because campaigns were giving 0.03-0.04 per week. I wouldn't really know how to pay taxes if I need to, would this count like a job and how exactly would someone prove they got their bitcoins from signature campaign , seems quite difficult.

Cryptocurrency is not yet taxable even if you earn it through signature campaign unless there's a law that regulating cryptocurrency on your place. But I think if you just withdraw it and government see your transactions that's the time you will pay taxes when necessary.

CryptoCurrency is not yet taxable but you need to convert them to fiat currency for usage, so you need to pay taxes on the transaction you are doing. The government will ask you from where you are getting this money, i think it is always best to pay some amount of tax which you are making.

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March 22, 2018, 06:02:55 AM
 #65

I think only bitcoin transaction are taxable and it still depends on a country you are residing. In US, almost every bitcoin transactions, mining, spending, trading and exchanging is taxable by Internal Revenue Service. Bitcoin gained from signature campaigns is not taxable unless there is law or regulation requiring every participant in the campaign to pay tax.  


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March 22, 2018, 06:14:08 AM
 #66

We don't know what your country saying about this since we do have different regulations, just like here in our country where in we are not yet obliged to pay tax with our earnings in bitcoin  because there is no such law regulating on it so we are still free to do what we want in our earnings
Everything depends on the national legislation of the country in which you live. I live in Ukraine and recently there was information that some deputies of our legislature indicated in their tax returns their income in the crypto currency, but they explained that the crypto currency is not subject to taxation and it is not necessary to report this profit in the tax declaration. Therefore, I believe that I have nothing to worry about.

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March 22, 2018, 09:11:28 AM
 #67

All this discussion here leads me to think that there could be some value in opening a thread here to share what we know the law says regarding Bitcoin and tax, in whichever jurisdiction we happen to have found conclusive help for. Someone above mentioned that the best person to consult would be an actual tax person, preferably an employee of the tax/revenue entity in your jurisdiction. People here seem to be curious enough. What do you say, OP? Or are we just opening ourselves up to flaming?

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March 22, 2018, 11:01:13 AM
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 #68

It all depends on the currency in which you keep your money.

This isn't true. If you earn $100 in crypto then you will need to add $100 in income to your earnings.


That is why you shouldn't look at crypto in terms of your local currency and start spending it. You got 1 crypto coin, you held 1 crypto coin, you spent one crypto coin. No fiat = no taxes. Smiley
If you want fiat, you should be aware that the real owners of fiat, the ones that you're leasing the money from* may end up going after you and requesting usage fees.


*yes, leasing, because fiat money don't belong to you if you get it onto your back account. The direct holder is the bank and the one above it is the government. If any of these 2 decide you're not worthy the money's gone in an instant.

You really should be looking at crypto in how your government wants to tax it if you don't want to get in trouble. When the tax man comes calling you saying "you should be looking at bitcoin a different way" isn't going to save you from fines or even jail. And spending bitcoin rather than cashing it out is absolutely no different as I already explained above. You can't earn money in crypto and not cash it out, but then buy a Lamborghini or a house and say, I don't have to pay taxes on this now. That's not how it works. If you earn "1 crypto coin" then whatever value it was when you received it is likely what you should be paying taxes on. If the value rises or falls then you can claim the losses back or pay further taxes on the gains if they're significant enough.

We don't know what your country saying about this since we do have different regulations, just like here in our country where in we are not yet obliged to pay tax with our earnings in bitcoin  because there is no such law regulating on it so we are still free to do what we want in our earnings
Everything depends on the national legislation of the country in which you live. I live in Ukraine and recently there was information that some deputies of our legislature indicated in their tax returns their income in the crypto currency, but they explained that the crypto currency is not subject to taxation and it is not necessary to report this profit in the tax declaration. Therefore, I believe that I have nothing to worry about.

Are you sure about that? If that was the case then what happens if everyone starts getting paid in bitcoin instead of cash? No income taxes? I think you guys are misinterpreting the laws completely.

https://news.bitcoin.com/ukraine-drafts-law-exempt-cryptocurrency-income-profits-taxation/

Quote
A bill has been submitted to the Ukrainian parliament to amend the country’s tax code to exempt cryptocurrency income and profits from taxation, including from buying, selling, transacting, and mining.

Has this actually been passed? It also doesn't say anything about money actually earned in bitcoin for providing services. I really can't see this being the case because otherwise everyone would just start transacting in bitcoin in order to avoid paying any sorts of taxes.

A more recent article:

https://news.bitcoin.com/ukraine-to-legalize-crypto-mining-as-economic-activity/

Quote
Ukraine’s parliament, however, has not made any significant progress towards adopting the necessary legal framework. Three drafts have been introduced in the Verkhovna Rada since October. The first bill defines cryptocurrency as property that can be exchanged for goods and services. The second draft law states that cryptos are financial assets. A third, supplementary bill amends the tax code to introduce tax exemptions for profits and incomes from crypto trading and mining. Some reports in February suggested that Ukrainian legislators may separate crypto mining and cryptocurrencies in the new legislation.

That only mentioned profits/income from trading and mining, not any other earnings.

All this discussion here leads me to think that there could be some value in opening a thread here to share what we know the law says regarding Bitcoin and tax, in whichever jurisdiction we happen to have found conclusive help for. Someone above mentioned that the best person to consult would be an actual tax person, preferably an employee of the tax/revenue entity in your jurisdiction. People here seem to be curious enough. What do you say, OP? Or are we just opening ourselves up to flaming?

It would be worthwhile and certainly helpful. I think a lot of these people who claim that no taxes have to be paid in their country will be shocked once they actually do some research into their countries tax laws and just because many governments don't explicitly have specific rules for bitcoin yet doesn't mean no taxes are due on bitcoin earnings. They probably don't have rules for getting paid in flat screen tvs but that doesn't mean your employer could pay you in them to avoid taxes otherwise everyone would do it.

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March 22, 2018, 11:33:33 AM
 #69

If your country still has not legalized bitcoin, you're not obliged to pay taxes even if your income is large enough. It's just that if your wealth remains in the form of crypto currency. Until you have exchanged them into the currency of your home country or in the form of goods. then you can not run away from the taxpayer.
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March 22, 2018, 08:26:38 PM
 #70


You really should be looking at crypto in how your government wants to tax it if you don't want to get in trouble. When the tax man comes calling you saying "you should be looking at bitcoin a different way" isn't going to save you from fines or even jail. And spending bitcoin rather than cashing it out is absolutely no different as I already explained above. You can't earn money in crypto and not cash it out, but then buy a Lamborghini or a house and say, I don't have to pay taxes on this now. That's not how it works. If you earn "1 crypto coin" then whatever value it was when you received it is likely what you should be paying taxes on. If the value rises or falls then you can claim the losses back or pay further taxes on the gains if they're significant enough.

I'm not a supporter of the government so my view is biased. Your advice is good in general and I wouldn't want anyone to act on advice from a libertarian like me and get in trouble. That said, I find the value of BTC at the time of receiving it completely irrelevant and I've never kept tabs on how much it was worth on a specific date.
How do you expect people to pay taxes on the value of coins that they receive? It's not possible to pay taxes in cryptocurrency, so by law you're required to do it after selling for fiat and that amount of fiat becomes the taxable income. Using an exchange is not a requirement, it's an option, a choice. Until the day they allow me to pay taxes in cryptocurrency they won't get a dime.


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March 22, 2018, 08:36:39 PM
 #71

If you cash out through the bank and if that amount exceeds your untaxable yearly income then you need to pay taxes. You may risk and not pay it, but it is not advisable. If you cash out and buy buildings, jets, houses etc. you will need to prove how did you earn money to buy all of that. Your income in signature campaigns is not interested yet because they are not recognizable yet by the governments. But some of them can link those too with some tools like Chainalysis have

https://www.chainalysis.com/
https://bitcoinexchangeguide.com/bitcoin-taxes-irs-tracking-software-cryptocurrency-classification/
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March 22, 2018, 09:01:11 PM
 #72

I don't know whether Bitcoin or crypto currency in general serves as a legal tender for goods and services in your country if your answer is yes then there will need for you to link your bank account with your wallets in other for the government agency in charge of tax to access your earning via crypto currency.

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March 22, 2018, 11:15:12 PM
 #73

If your countries does not legalize the bitcoin yet, you will not be obliged to pay any tax if you want to exchange your bitcoin to fiat. There are some people who will buy from you your bitcoin against fiat with 0% tax. My country is an example of that, bitcoin here, or maybe cryptocurrencies in general didn't have any rules, I don't know if it's legalized or not, but when I want to cash out some of my bitcoin, I can find some people in localbitcoins and I just sell my bitcoin vs fiat.
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March 23, 2018, 12:25:55 AM
 #74

It all depends on the currency in which you keep your money.

This isn't true. If you earn $100 in crypto then you will need to add $100 in income to your earnings.


That is why you shouldn't look at crypto in terms of your local currency and start spending it. You got 1 crypto coin, you held 1 crypto coin, you spent one crypto coin. No fiat = no taxes. Smiley
If you want fiat, you should be aware that the real owners of fiat, the ones that you're leasing the money from* may end up going after you and requesting usage fees.


*yes, leasing, because fiat money don't belong to you if you get it onto your back account. The direct holder is the bank and the one above it is the government. If any of these 2 decide you're not worthy the money's gone in an instant.

You really should be looking at crypto in how your government wants to tax it if you don't want to get in trouble. When the tax man comes calling you saying "you should be looking at bitcoin a different way" isn't going to save you from fines or even jail. And spending bitcoin rather than cashing it out is absolutely no different as I already explained above. You can't earn money in crypto and not cash it out, but then buy a Lamborghini or a house and say, I don't have to pay taxes on this now. That's not how it works. If you earn "1 crypto coin" then whatever value it was when you received it is likely what you should be paying taxes on. If the value rises or falls then you can claim the losses back or pay further taxes on the gains if they're significant enough.

We don't know what your country saying about this since we do have different regulations, just like here in our country where in we are not yet obliged to pay tax with our earnings in bitcoin  because there is no such law regulating on it so we are still free to do what we want in our earnings
Everything depends on the national legislation of the country in which you live. I live in Ukraine and recently there was information that some deputies of our legislature indicated in their tax returns their income in the crypto currency, but they explained that the crypto currency is not subject to taxation and it is not necessary to report this profit in the tax declaration. Therefore, I believe that I have nothing to worry about.

Are you sure about that? If that was the case then what happens if everyone starts getting paid in bitcoin instead of cash? No income taxes? I think you guys are misinterpreting the laws completely.

https://news.bitcoin.com/ukraine-drafts-law-exempt-cryptocurrency-income-profits-taxation/

Quote
A bill has been submitted to the Ukrainian parliament to amend the country’s tax code to exempt cryptocurrency income and profits from taxation, including from buying, selling, transacting, and mining.

Has this actually been passed? It also doesn't say anything about money actually earned in bitcoin for providing services. I really can't see this being the case because otherwise everyone would just start transacting in bitcoin in order to avoid paying any sorts of taxes.

A more recent article:

https://news.bitcoin.com/ukraine-to-legalize-crypto-mining-as-economic-activity/

Quote
Ukraine’s parliament, however, has not made any significant progress towards adopting the necessary legal framework. Three drafts have been introduced in the Verkhovna Rada since October. The first bill defines cryptocurrency as property that can be exchanged for goods and services. The second draft law states that cryptos are financial assets. A third, supplementary bill amends the tax code to introduce tax exemptions for profits and incomes from crypto trading and mining. Some reports in February suggested that Ukrainian legislators may separate crypto mining and cryptocurrencies in the new legislation.

That only mentioned profits/income from trading and mining, not any other earnings.

All this discussion here leads me to think that there could be some value in opening a thread here to share what we know the law says regarding Bitcoin and tax, in whichever jurisdiction we happen to have found conclusive help for. Someone above mentioned that the best person to consult would be an actual tax person, preferably an employee of the tax/revenue entity in your jurisdiction. People here seem to be curious enough. What do you say, OP? Or are we just opening ourselves up to flaming?

It would be worthwhile and certainly helpful. I think a lot of these people who claim that no taxes have to be paid in their country will be shocked once they actually do some research into their countries tax laws and just because many governments don't explicitly have specific rules for bitcoin yet doesn't mean no taxes are due on bitcoin earnings. They probably don't have rules for getting paid in flat screen tvs but that doesn't mean your employer could pay you in them to avoid taxes otherwise everyone would do it.

Yes, one thing is for sure, you have to pay taxes for it. I know I have, that's why I even asked in the first place. I know I could get away without paying and most people can too however there will be a time when that wont be possible. I'm now talking to a lawyer so I will update you guys soon.

He did tell me that even if you don't convert your bitcoins into fiat, you would still have to declare them, although here in Spain, you have to do it 1 year later, for example now in 2018, you would have to pay/declare taxes for 2017.


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March 23, 2018, 03:26:47 AM
 #75

I think people joining signature campaigns in my country don't need to pay taxes unless they convert their tokens/coins into fiat and cash it out to some banks accepting cryptocurrencies. Government here in our country is not against cryptos but I think they are doing some regulations to put taxes to those people who are engaging and earning money in cryptos, but as far as I know, this is not yet approved and still being processed.

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March 23, 2018, 03:52:09 AM
 #76

Now first of all I live in spain and I'm wondering if someone has ever paid taxes with money acquired from signature campaigns here. I made a decent amount of money a year ago because campaigns were giving 0.03-0.04 per week. I wouldn't really know how to pay taxes if I need to, would this count like a job and how exactly would someone prove they got their bitcoins from signature campaign , seems quite difficult.

Doing signature campaign is considered as freelance job so earnings from it would still be considered as income. However, earnings from it though might not reach the minimum taxable income if you converted it to fiat during the time you earned it so I don't think it is necessary for you to declare it. However, for your peace of mind, you have the option to declare it. It is really hard to tax crypto earnings because if you compare the price a year ago from what it is now, your earnings is not that much before and you would be paying higher if you declare it now basing it on today's price. You will be paying for an income you didn't even earn given that you already spend it somewhere else before.

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March 23, 2018, 07:05:01 AM
 #77

I do not know how income tax works on spain but if i were you i would not bother computing it. I think the earnings in signature campaign are too small (specially this year) for your agency to investigate it.
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March 23, 2018, 08:03:51 AM
 #78

I don't think my country knows I specifically do Sign campaigns... Lol. However, I do a lot of freelance on here and other online platforms, so when payment is made its tax deductible. For Sign campaigns here, when I convert to fiat, fees and taxes are deducted; so I guess that's how the government receives taxes from that.

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senne
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March 23, 2018, 05:05:31 PM
 #79

I don't think my country knows I specifically do Sign campaigns... Lol. However, I do a lot of freelance on here and other online platforms, so when payment is made its tax deductible. For Sign campaigns here, when I convert to fiat, fees and taxes are deducted; so I guess that's how the government receives taxes from that.

Exactly, this is what government wants from us is that everyone pay proper tax on their income nothing else. They will never argue how you earn but what you do but one should also be aware for a backup as government at some point ask from where the money is coming as Bitcoin is also indulged in criminal activities and they might suspect you for that also, So be ready with a proper answer if got inquired as Signature campaign might not be the appropriate answer.
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March 23, 2018, 05:17:48 PM
Merited by Foxpup (1)
 #80

I'm not a supporter of the government so my view is biased. Your advice is good in general and I wouldn't want anyone to act on advice from a libertarian like me and get in trouble.

Well if you or anyone else wants to evade taxes then that's fine and is your choice, but I doubt you'll be fine if you get caught and you're facing hefty fines and possibly prison time. "I'm a Libertarian" or "I didn't know I had to pay taxes" "or "how can I pay taxes when I never sold my coins" really won't get you any sympathy if that time ever comes. Your beliefs are irrelevant to the government at the end of the day but it's the others I'm concerned about who seem to think they somehow don't have to pay anything.

That said, I find the value of BTC at the time of receiving it completely irrelevant and I've never kept tabs on how much it was worth on a specific date.

Well it's not irrelevant for tax purposes. The amount it's worth at the time of receipt is how much you should declare as earnings. If you sell it later on and make profit on the amount then you may be liable for capital gains taxes so that initial value is important once again.

How do you expect people to pay taxes on the value of coins that they receive?

How do you expect anyone else to pay their taxes? You keep a record of the money you receive for the goods or services you provide. The blockchain is already a ledger so there's not much you need to do. Blockchain.info even tells you the amount the coins were worth at the time of receiving them so it makes it easy to keep tabs on your profit and losses.

It's not possible to pay taxes in cryptocurrency, so by law you're required to do it after selling for fiat and that amount of fiat becomes the taxable income. Using an exchange is not a requirement, it's an option, a choice. Until the day they allow me to pay taxes in cryptocurrency they won't get a dime.

It's not possible to pay taxes in gold, melons or flatscreen tvs either but you still need to pay taxes if you are receiving them as payment for goods or services. And using an exchange may not be a requirement but paying your taxes certainly is. You can also just sell them for cash, but not being able to pay taxes in crypto isn't a viable defense in as much as it would be for melons or gold. You can easily just cash out the amount required to cover the taxes but if you want to willful evade all taxes on crypto earnings that's between you and the government.

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